Vicarious Law-keeping?

[WordSword]

14 hours ago, dailyprayerwarrior said:

WordSword! Boom! Awesome! 

Hi DPW! Thanks for the encouragement, and I promise I won't let it go to my head. 

God's blessings to your Family!

[Alive]

32 minutes ago, WordSword said:

Hi, and appreciating your input! NC is NetChaplain, myself and have been using this ID for about 15 years sharing on the internet (ordained Civil Chaplain with NACM).

God bless your Family!

Thank you. I would never have guessed that.

[WordSword]

5 hours ago, Tampered With said:

The law was to point us to the need for a savior. A once and for all sacrifice rather than a yearly sacrifice for sin. Jesus accomplished this for all mankind. There is more to following Jesus than accepting His salvation. There is growth in following Him as in John 14:15. Jesus was not making a legalistic statement as putting anyone under the law but saying for our growth in Him we are out of Love for Him to strive to obey His commandments. Also in Matthew 5:19 Jesus again says in the New Testament that they will enter heaven if they break these commandments and teach others to do likewise however there will be consequences.    

John 14:15 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁵ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Matthew 5:19 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁹ Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Hi and appreciate your reply and comments! Just wanted to point out that whenever Scripture is referencing the Law it is to the Jews only. The Mat 5:19 applies to Jews under the Law, and Jhn 14:15 applies to all in Christ and are not directly related to commandments in the Law.

The commands of Christ are all that He and His Apostles taught to those desiring to be Christians. The Law of Moses was to the Jews prior to the "disannulling of the commandments" (Heb 10:9).

God bless!

[Adam777]

The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake

 

he will magnify the law, and make it honourable

 

Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

 

Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

 

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment

 

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery

 

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy

 

 But I say unto you, Love your enemies

 

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven

 

for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good

 

and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

By what law? of works? Nay:

 

by the law of faith

 

Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the

 

uncircumcision through faith

 

Do we then make void the law through faith?

 

God forbid:

 

yea, we establish the law

 

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well

 

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty

 

For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy;

 

and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

 

Matthew 5:¹⁹ Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.²⁰ For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.²¹ Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:²² But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

Matthew 5:²⁷ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:²⁸ But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

Matthew 5:⁴³ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.⁴⁴ But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;⁴⁵ That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

Romans 3:1 ²⁷ Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

 

Romans 3:³⁰ Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.³¹ Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

James 2:⁸ If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:⁹ But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.¹⁰ For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.¹¹ For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.¹² So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.¹³ For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

[Firm Foundation]

On 10/5/2019 at 2:39 AM, Sower said:

I can only testify of myself.
I am saved. Born of the spirit.
I love the Lord. God is light. All His promises are true.
I agree with God, and, I am NOT going to call God a LIAR!
                      I sin.
and, so does everybody else reading this.
It's why we have an advocate. (that every body needs )
Give it a break.
Many years back talking with other older solid Christians , about sin, and 'filthy/terrible thoughts coming from out of nowhere',
I learned that every normal Christian man is plagued with temptations and sinful thoughts, if honest with themselves. Or others.
I know what sin is.
Missing the mark. The target (rule/command) God has set for me. And you.
To know a good/better thing to do, and not do it, is a miss! (easily missed target) Think about that.
The better I aim, the more targets I hit, but then, the more tough targets appear.
Like, I found out;   "You mean I can't even think about that any more!!!"
I'm in training now, about forty years, in God's army.
I have read the training book, and know the 'rules/commands' OK?
As a veteran soldier in God's army, I try (in Christ) to hear/do His will. But, still have wounds.
The more I take up the cross, unfurl the flag, step up to the battles, the more I'm wounded,
the more I stumble and fall. Missed targets! Sin. The spiritual WAR is what I'm talking about.
If I'm really on my toes, and grab all the thoughts, I'm confessing sin all day long.
What did the chiefest one say about that?
Just like one honest person here has admitted up stream. And it's a spiritual battle.
I believe I have become extremely more sensitive to the 'targets' day by day, and acquiring 'deeper' insight
into the 'mind of Christ', concerning a better (doing the right thing/righteousness) walk, those subtle
thoughts/imaginings constant overwhelmingly creating snares.
When fasting (assuming you do)  to show rule over flesh, do you notice how a tiny morsel can taste so wonderful.
Try fasting from loosing your cool here on Worthy. Like a thought "aw, I need to set that guy straight"
It's obvious to me, someone here is doing as God's command says for us to do;

"Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed.
The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working."

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

To address the works/gift issue .
My sins have no power of loss over the gift of salvation from my Savior.
But I will have loss, of my relationship to my God.
It is an ongoing battle.....(if your in the fight)

We should try to be kind.
Everyone you meet is fighting a battle,
you know nothing about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 John 3 says Christians don't sin and can't sin, so I won't call God a liar by saying Christians do continue in sin.

[Firm Foundation]

Again, the issue is the difference between willful sins and sins done by mistake.  In addition, just because a bad thought enters your mind, that doesn't mean you sinned.  The devil plants some of those thoughts.   Take them captive immediately and you didn't sin.

[Sower]

13 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said:

1 John 3 says Christians don't sin and can't sin, so I won't call God a liar by saying Christians do continue in sin.

"Whosoever 'abideth' in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 1Jn,

"I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.   Rm 7,25

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 Jn: 1, 10

[Alive]

I like the illustration of placing a note into a book and mailing that book here and there. Everything the book experiences the note experiences. The history of the book, is the history of the note.

We were placed 'IN CHRIST' by the Father...like the note in the book. We died in Him on the Cross, were buried, we rose and we ascended. This is history. It happened as ordained by our Father.

Everything that Christ is--we are. We cannot add to this work.

The understanding must start with this as the foundation. Everything has to be consistent with the Cross and Resurrection and Ascension.

Christ's work and the Father placing us 'In Him' solved all the problems of 'Old Adam' and provided for the Father's 'eternal purpose'--to have many sons. To share 'being' with the universe He constructed.

He didn't just sever us from the old Adam--He killed him and we were resurrected from that death to a 'New Life' Governed by an entirely new economy. This economy is as far from the 'principle of law and death' as the heavens are above the earth.

 

And yet--we have this treasure in an earthen vessel. All of the scriptures that have been mentioned to argue this and that side of a coin, are due to the tension that is set up by the principles I have pointed to.

The resolution was described by Paul. This stuff is not difficult folks. We need at times to allow a tearing down of the towers we erect. Or personal bastions of doctrine.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Alive

[Alive]

I wonder. Has anyone in this subject mentioned that the language in 1 John seems to be saying that one born of God doesn't continue or abide in sin?

Another way of saying this may be like so: one born of God doesn't take up an abode in sin or linger there.

The balance of scripture and the experience of a myriad of sons of God seems to support this.

 

[Alive]

I heard that same bird nest illustration many moons ago.

Thanks for the reminder.