ignorance

[nobleseed]

it has become obvious to me that the christian church as a whole has not had many good teachers, that they are like little children that have not been taught properly.  people on this forum are even saying the bible does not have to make sense, that it is all taken on faith.  if we believe in nonsense then there is no truth and if what we confess makes no  sense then why would non believers listen to us.  God is a wise God and he wrote a wise book of truth and knowledge.  as it says the senseless man will never understand.  so stop u silly interpretations and understand properly with a sobre mind that is fruitful 

[Raven]

Truth does not need logic or reason to exist. Those who are open (unconditional faith) to the truth, will receive truth without needing logic or reason for it to make sense.

Have you never received a revelation, or inspiration (in-spirit), of what is true without using logic or reasoning? Those that wish to claim such experiences for their own ego will create logic and reasons to fit the revelation, and say "Look how wise I am". In their ignorance (non-enlightenment) they have become arrogant, for they could not see anything superior than self in their darkness, and claimed themselves to be superior.

[Tzephanyahu]

12 minutes ago, nobleseed said:

it has become obvious to me that the christian church as a whole has not had many good teachers, that they are like little children that have not been taught properly.  people on this forum are even saying the bible does not have to make sense, that it is all taken on faith.  if we believe in nonsense then there is no truth and if what we confess makes no  sense then why would non believers listen to us.  God is a wise God and he wrote a wise book of truth and knowledge.  as it says the senseless man will never understand.  so stop u silly interpretations and understand properly with a sobre mind that is fruitful 

Shalom nobleseed,

I can see your point.  However, I also see another principle at work in the Scripture - that it will not open itself to certain people.  It remains veiled to some, as well as the truth, even to some believers.  A blindness, if you will, like the parables of the Messiah which were designed to reach certain people and avoid others, in a crowd of followers.

In the days of the Messiah, thousands followed Him, but not His ways.  Only a select few followed His ways - the disciples (which was more than just the 12 apostles).  In the same way, today we have many "followers" of Messiah, singing His praises to seeking miracles, blessings and healings from afar - but there heart may not be right.  

I believe that depending on the follower's heart, selfish goals, a wilful ignorance - the Scripture will not reveal it's treasures.  Instead it will seem tough, laborious and confusing .  Beyond this, if their motives are wrong, the Scripture can also seem to twist and contort to them, and back up their self-serving theories, with a verse here and there, solidifying their errors.  A scary principle, but it ought to be acknowledged. 

So yes, there is only a few good teachers out there but even if there were many, there would still be much senselessness and incorrect interpretations out there - showing the wheat from the chaff.

Love & Shalom

[nobleseed]

17 minutes ago, Tzephanyahu said:

Shalom nobleseed,

I can see your point.  However, I also see another principle at work in the Scripture - that it will not open itself to certain people.  It remains veiled to some, as well as the truth, even to some believers.  A blindness, if you will, like the parables of the Messiah which were designed to reach certain people and avoid others, in a crowd of followers.

In the days of the Messiah, thousands followed Him, but not His ways.  Only a select few followed His ways - the disciples (which was more than just the 12 apostles).  In the same way, today we have many "followers" of Messiah, singing His praises to seeking miracles, blessings and healings from afar - but there heart may not be right.  

I believe that depending on the follower's heart, selfish goals, a wilful ignorance - the Scripture will not reveal it's treasures.  Instead it will seem tough, laborious and confusing .  Beyond this, if their motives are wrong, the Scripture can also seem to twist and contort to them, and back up their self-serving theories, with a verse here and there, solidifying their errors.  A scary principle, but it ought to be acknowledged. 

So yes, there is only a few good teachers out there but even if there were many, there would still be much senselessness and incorrect interpretations out there - showing the wheat from the chaff.

Love & Shalom

very well said and enlightened.  u certainly have the truth in your heart.  but how do we correct the errors that have polluted scripture and how do u teach the obstinate.  maybe it is up to God to correct and not men like us

Edited October 14, 2019 by nobleseed

[Justin Adams]

Find out for yourself. Do not rely on teachers, especially pew salesmen.

Think for yourself, your life depends on it and perhaps many others' lives as well.

Do not criticize, because those three finger are pointing right back at you when you point the finger.

The time you take making posts could be better spent in study. Find out about the Divine Council. Find out about the Plan of Yahweh. Burrow deeply in the Tanakh and see that without the ancient Hebrew scriptures it is impossible to see the New Testament clearly. The apostles have 'hooks' into their scriptures all over their later writings. They illuminate the whole of God's plans. Their 'bible' was the Tanakh and the various Hebrew scholars that had studied it for centuries. And other books that we have been forbidden to read..

Our current teachers espouse Augustine and other hand-me-down poor theology. Thinking is not encouraged and so we have stripped the scriptures of its supernatural content. Look at the kids today! They WANT supernatural so they follow super-heroes and UFO nonsense. The believers have been lobotomized and mainline on secular news while craving meaning in their church groups.

Even some of the Church Fathers got some of it correct - they had MEMORY and no concordances or interlinear study tools - but they understood well. Some of it.

So it is up to you to shake the cobwebs from your mind, and get with God's learning programs.

[Tzephanyahu]

26 minutes ago, nobleseed said:

how do we correct the errors that have polluted scripture and how do u teach the obstinate.  maybe it is up to God to correct and not men like us

I think you've hit the nail on the head, my friend.

There was a time when I would try to argue passionately for the truth with other followers who were interpreting or twisting the Word.  However, now days I have learned it is better to only speak the truth and if they object, they object.

There is a fine line between someone who has been deceived and someone who deceives themselves.   When I feel I have identified the former group, I will go to great lengths to explain the Word with them.  But when I believe it's the latter group, I don't bother anymore, for two reasons...

1. Everyone thinks they are fighting for truth and for God.  So,anyone bringing a contradicting teaching to what this latter group "know ", will simply be classed/categorised as ultimately working for the enemy or destined for Hell.  Scripture bombs are thrown at each other for hours but, ultimately, it's a stalemate.

2. Some in this latter group, with deceitful hearts, can entice you to sin with your words and attitude during the debate.  They act rudely, aggressively and insultingly to you and,  before you know it, you stoop to their level.  Yes, in righteous anger but with sinful execution.  It's not only until you look back you go "Man, what got into me there, I acted like a fool".

So therefore, those who are stubborn minded, who think they know all there is to know, and do not remain humble in the face of the Scripture - I let them be.  Let their fruit show what's in their hearts and, if Yahweh has appointed them to error, let it be.  Not everyone will be saved.  But if He has appointed to them to be enlightened to the truth, all I can do is share it simply, and let the Spirit do the convincing part.

That's the negative part, which is so prevalent these days.  But let me mention the  positive part lest we get to depressed...

Isn't it great when you hardly know someone but from the few things they say or do, you just KNOW they get it.  You feel the Spirit within them in their words or attitude.  What a pleasure that is!  to imagine the next world being filled with such people.... How exciting!  Such people occasionally have different doctrines but ultimately they have "got it" and they remain humble in the face of Scripture - ready to renew, refine and regenerate their faith and walk - understanding they have much to learn from the Word AND each other, always.  Such a person like this is truly my brother or sister, regardless of differences of doctrine.  When I meet such people, see them teach or read their posts in here - it fills my heart with such joy and hope that all is not lost.  He has a remnant, always. 

Love & Shalom

[Tzephanyahu]

37 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Burrow deeply in the Tanakh and see that without the ancient Hebrew scriptures it is impossible to see the New Testament clearly. The apostles have 'hooks' into their scriptures all over their later writings. They illuminate the whole of God's plans. Their 'bible' was the Tanakh and the various Hebrew scholars that had studied it for centuries. And other books that we have been forbidden to read..

Amen brother.  The New Testament grows more beautiful the more the Tanakh is understood.

[nobleseed]

3 minutes ago, Tzephanyahu said:

I think you've hit the nail on the head, my friend.

There was a time when I would try to argue passionately for the truth with other followers who were interpreting or twisting the Word.  However, now days I have learned it is better to only speak the truth and if they object, they object.

There is a fine line between someone who has been deceived and someone who deceives themselves.   When I feel I have identified the former group, I will go to great lengths to explain the Word with them.  But when I believe it's the latter group, I don't bother anymore, for two reasons...

1. Everyone thinks they are fighting for truth and for God.  So,anyone bringing a contradicting teaching to what this latter group "know ", will simply be classed/categorised as ultimately working for the enemy or destined for Hell.  Scripture bombs are thrown at each other for hours but, ultimately, it's a stalemate.

2. Some in this latter group, with deceitful hearts, can entice you to sin with your words and attitude during the debate.  They act rudely, aggressively and insultingly to you and,  before you know it, you stoop to their level.  Yes, in righteous anger but with sinful execution.  It's not only until you look back you go "Man, what got into me there, I acted like a fool".

So therefore, those who are stubborn minded, who think they know all there is to know, and do not remain humble in the face of the Scripture - I let them be.  Let their fruit show what's in their hearts and, if Yahweh has appointed them to error, let it be.  Not everyone will be saved.  But if He has appointed to them to be enlightened to the truth, all I can do is share it simply, and let the Spirit do the convincing part.

That's the negative part, which is so prevalent these days.  But let me mention the  positive part lest we get to depressed...

Isn't it great when you hardly know someone but from the few things they say or do, you just KNOW they get it.  You feel the Spirit within them in their words or attitude.  What a pleasure that is!  to imagine the next world being filled with such people.... How exciting!  Such people occasionally have different doctrines but ultimately they have "got it" and they remain humble in the face of Scripture - ready to renew, refine and regenerate their faith and walk - understanding they have much to learn from the Word AND each other, always.  Such a person like this is truly my brother or sister, regardless of differences of doctrine.  When I meet such people, see them teach or read their posts in here - it fills my heart with such joy and hope that all is not lost.  He has a remnant, always. 

Love & Shalom

well i think Solomon Said it the best," do not answer a fool according to his folly or else u will be like him, answer a fool according to his folly or else he will be wise in his own eyes".  and i look forward to hearing him in the life to come and u too.  i am sure we will have good conversations.

 

[Tzephanyahu]

12 minutes ago, nobleseed said:

and i look forward to hearing him in the life to come and u too.  i am sure we will have good conversations.

Amen!  It will be a time of great peace and excitement. 

Hopefully, in that  day, I'll be reclining in the fields and chatting with someone and be like.. "Oh, YOU were nobleseed in the forum!?"  

[nobleseed]

7 minutes ago, Tzephanyahu said:

Amen!  It will be a time of great peace and excitement. 

Hopefully, in that  day, I'll be reclining in the fields and chatting with someone and be like.. "Oh, YOU were nobleseed in the forum!?"  

lol