Can we determine the TIMING of the Rapture from Paul?

[iamlamad]

19 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

Yes, let's try again and see if you continue to evade answering.

 

We know the 6th trumpet is the 2nd woe, but John doesn't write it here, why?  Why does it comes 2 chapters later following the passage on the 2 witnesses?  The answer is simple, because we are to understand that the 6th trumpet is connected to the events found where the 2nd woe is stated as taking place.  It is lost on you, but not anyone else.  That is why your imaginary parentheses is rejected, because it is false.

There is absolutely no reason for that information to be found there for any other reason.  If John didn't want verse 14 to go with the 2 witnesses he would have written it in chapter 9, or better yet, written the 2 witnesses later on.  You can't come up with any reason for it to appear where it does, and you don't understand it because you are not open to learn, so instead you create and present a total fiction.  Good luck with that.

but John doesn't write it here, why?  Does not write WHAT? Does not write it WHERE? I have to understand your question before I can answer it.

I am sure the answer is going to be simple, once I understand your question.

Edited November 9, 2019 by iamlamad

[wingnut-]

3 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

  Does not write WHAT?

 

Revelation 11:14  The second woe has passed; behold, the third woe is soon to come.

 

4 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Does not write it WHERE?

 

Revelation 9:13 Then the sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God, 14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand; I heard their number. 17 And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulfur, and the heads of the horses were like lions' heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths. 18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed, by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths. 19 For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails, for their tails are like serpents with heads, and by means of them they wound.

20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, 21 nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

[iamlamad]

28 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

I understood this as written at 8 years old, no parentheses required, it is self explanatory.  

Sure, if you ignore all the rules for pronouns! 

Laugh all you want: you will be laughing at a lot of very wise people that did all these translations. But of course you are so wise you can laugh at all of them. Let's see: which is YOUR translation?

New International Version
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

Good News Translation
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first raising of the dead.

NET Bible
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.

CJB    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first resurrection.
ERV    (The rest of the dead did not live again until the 1000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
EHV    (The rest of the dead did not live until the thousand years came to an end.) This is the first resurrection.
EXB    (The others that were dead did not live again until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first ·raising of the dead [resurrection].
GNT    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first raising of the dead.
ICB    (The others that were dead did not live again until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first raising of the dead.
PHILLIPS  They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.)
LEB    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection.
MOUNCE    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished). This is the first resurrection. ·
NCV    (The others that were dead did not live again until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first raising of the dead.
NET    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.
NIRV    This is the first resurrection. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.
NIV    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
NIVUK    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
NRSV    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
NRSVA    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
NRSVACE    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
NRSVCE    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

 

 

 

 

 

[wingnut-]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Laugh all you want: you will be laughing at a lot of very wise people that did all these translations. But of course you are so wise you can laugh at all of them. Let's see: which is YOUR translation?

 

No, it is simply reading a passage in context and what is known as reading comprehension.  Your little trickery is to isolate one verse away from the context to try and make a point that doesn't hold up to prove another point that doesn't hold up.  You're getting more and more desperate.

 

You know, when God gave the Word to the Jewish people, He told them not to change one jot or tittle, what do you suppose adding parentheses qualifies as?  I know this much, and I say this in all sincerity, but we are specifically given warnings about adding to or taking away from this book.  You really should tread carefully, don't love your theory too much.

 

Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

[iamlamad]

18 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

Revelation 11:14  The second woe has passed; behold, the third woe is soon to come.

 

 

Revelation 9:13 Then the sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God, 14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand; I heard their number. 17 And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulfur, and the heads of the horses were like lions' heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths. 18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed, by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths. 19 For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails, for their tails are like serpents with heads, and by means of them they wound.

20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, 21 nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

I have explained this over and over.

You do understand, chapter 10 (an intermission from John's real time timeline) is between the 6th trumpet and the 7th? 

Verse 20 proves this trumpet woe is OVER and FINISHED by verse 20.

Then AFTER the intermission, John sticks VERY CLOSE to his chronology: events happen BEFORE the 7th trumpet that marks the midpoint: the man of sin will arrive in Jerusalem with his Gentile armies. Then because he showed up in Jerusalem, God sends the two witnesses to Jerusalem. These events WILL HAPPEN before the 7th trumpet sounds: that is why John wrote them in BEFORE the 7th trumpet.

However, to someone who can move things around in Revelation to fit a theory, I am probably wasting my time.

[iamlamad]

Just now, wingnut- said:

No, it is simply reading a passage in context and what is known as reading comprehension.  Your little trickery is to isolate one verse away from the context to try and make a point that doesn't hold up to prove another point that doesn't hold up.  You're getting more and more desperate.

You know, when God gave the Word to the Jewish people, He told them not to change one jot or tittle, what do you suppose adding parentheses qualifies as?  I know this much, and I say this in all sincerity, but we are specifically given warnings about adding to or taking away from this book.  You really should tread carefully, don't love your theory too much.

Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

I understand, you don't believe ANY of those translators. I got it. You are so stuck on YOUR THEORY you won't budge. I understand that too, for I am not going to remove those parentheses. The truth is, I comprehend well enough to know a parenthesis is needed and know it was the way John wrote it.

I know! When we arrive, we will find John and ASK HIM! Deal?

Do you not understand thousands of translators have added punctuation and verse numbers and chapter headings! These are for clarity, NOT CHANGING ANYTHING.

Explain how you get the two witnesses testifying in the last half when their story is written in the first half?  How do YOU accomplish that?

[wingnut-]

5 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

However, to someone who can move things around in Revelation to fit a theory, I am probably wasting my time.

 

Yes pot with the imaginary parentheses, keep calling the kettle black.  

[wingnut-]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Explain how you get the two witnesses testifying in the last half when their story is written in the first half? 

 

Because I understand the book is not chronological, by simply following what it says.

[wingnut-]

10 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Verse 20 proves this trumpet woe is OVER and FINISHED by verse 20.

 

Of course, that is why you can't give a reason for why the verse appears in chapter 11 and not in chapter 9.  It must be written with the 2 witnesses for a reason, which is why you used to believe they were in the first half of the week.  Now you understand they are not, but you can't reconcile that verse so you are going to pretend that it doesn't appear there.

There is absolutely no reason you can give for why that verse appears there and not in chapter 9, your theory falls apart.

[wingnut-]

23 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I understand that too, for I am not going to remove those parentheses.

 

Exactly how does one remove something that does not exist anyway?