The Four Beasts

[JoeCanada]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Hey! Thanks for pointing out my mistake in typing: of course the angel IS TELLING Daniel (and us) what end he was talking about.

No, sorry, not assuming anything: I am just following the context.

But then, MANY PEOPLE - when they see "the end"  - assume it is talking about OUR future. In this case, lets look again:

" there stood before the river a ram which had two horns "

" behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. "

The angel identifies these:

²⁰ The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

²¹ And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

²² Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.

²³ And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

 

²⁶ And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true:

 

All we have to do today is BELIEVE what Daniel wrote.

Now in the amplified:

³ And I lifted up my eyes and saw, and behold, there stood before the river a [single] ram which had two horns [representing two kings of Medo-Persia: Darius the Mede, then Cyrus]; and the two horns were high, but one [Persia] was higher than the other, and the higher one came up last.

⁵ As I was considering, behold, a he-goat [the king of Greece] came from the west across the face of the whole earth without touching the ground, and the goat had a conspicuous and remarkable horn between his eyes [symbolizing Alexander the Great].

⁸ And the he-goat [Alexander the Great] magnified himself exceedingly, and when he was [young and] strong, the ^[a]great horn [he] was [suddenly] broken; and instead of [him] there came up four notable horns [to whom the kingdom was divided, one] toward [each of] the four winds of the heavens.

⁹ Out of littleness and small beginnings one of them came forth [Antiochus Epiphanes], a ^[b]horn whose [impious presumption and pride] grew exceedingly great toward the south and toward the east and toward the ornament [the precious, blessed land of Israel].

¹⁰ And [in my vision this horn] grew great, even against the host of heaven [God’s true people, the saints], and some of the host and of the stars [priests] it cast down to the ground and trampled on them,

¹¹ Yes, [this horn] magnified itself, even [matching itself] against the Prince of the host [of heaven]; and from Him the continual [burnt offering] was taken away and the place of [God’s] sanctuary was cast down and profaned.

As you can see, I am not assuming anything. I am only following the context.

iamlamad,

I believe that we are seeing " the ram which you saw with the two horns represents the kings of Media and Persia"........right now.....in this day.

Media and Persia...... what land mass do they represent?

Iran of course.

" I saw the ram butting westward, northward and southward"....Dan 8:4

Look at what Iran has been doing of late. They have proxy wars in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Lebanon, Palestine, Pakistan and Bahrain.

They are also showing great interest in Somalia, Eritrea, Sudan and Ethiopia.

This is the ram "butting". The two horns....the Ayatollah, and the IRGC. Many claim that the IRGC is more powerful than the Ayatollah.

"The two horns were long, but one was longer than the other, with the longer one coming up last" . That pretty much explains the hierarchy in Iran.

When Iran declares that they are the true head of Islam, with the unfolding of the 12th Iman, this will "enrage" the Goat from Yavan (Turkey) and Yavan will attack Iran and overcome it. They think that Sunni is the rightful Caliph, not Shia Iran. 

I know many will not believe this. 

But, that's the way I see it happening. I'm not 100% certain, but I'm watching the events in the Middle East, and this is what I see happening from Dan 8.

Time will certainly tell. You'll see things more clearly in the next few years, if not before.

 

 

 

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

iamlamad,

I believe that we are seeing " the ram which you saw with the two horns represents the kings of Media and Persia"........right now.....in this day.

Media and Persia...... what land mass do they represent?

Iran of course.

" I saw the ram butting westward, northward and southward"....Dan 8:4

Look at what Iran has been doing of late. They have proxy wars in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Lebanon, Palestine, Pakistan and Bahrain.

They are also showing great interest in Somalia, Eritrea, Sudan and Ethiopia.

This is the ram "butting". The two horns....the Ayatollah, and the IRGC. Many claim that the IRGC is more powerful than the Ayatollah.

"The two horns were long, but one was longer than the other, with the longer one coming up last" . That pretty much explains the hierarchy in Iran.

When Iran declares that they are the true head of Islam, with the unfolding of the 12th Iman, this will "enrage" the Goat from Yavan (Turkey) and Yavan will attack Iran and overcome it. They think that Sunni is the rightful Caliph, not Shia Iran. 

I know many will not believe this. 

But, that's the way I see it happening. I'm not 100% certain, but I'm watching the events in the Middle East, and this is what I see happening from Dan 8.

Time will certainly tell. You'll see things more clearly in the next few years, if not before.

If we were talking about chapter 2 or chapter 7 or chapters 11-12, I could agree about our future.

It is possible chapter 8 has some second meaning for the future - but I doubt it. Now, If you were talking chapter 2 and the image, or chapter 7 and the four beasts, I think they do have a second meaning - pointing to the future. Without a doubt, chapter 12 is future.

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

If we were talking about chapter 2 or chapter 7 or chapters 11-12, I could agree about our future.

It is possible chapter 8 has some second meaning for the future - but I doubt it. Now, If you were talking chapter 2 and the image, or chapter 7 and the four beasts, I think they do have a second meaning - pointing to the future. Without a doubt, chapter 12 is future.

I see Daniel 7 and 8 as parallel scriptures discussing the same events. Although Dan 8 begins with the vision of the Ram and Goat, material not found in Dan 7, it is after the Goat overcomes the Ram and becomes exceedingly great, that Dan 7 and 8 run in tandem and discuss the same events.

I also believe that all of Dan 11 and 12 are future, though I can't yet make sense of the marriages between the players of the king of the north and south.

But, I keep studying Daniel. Perhaps events will come about that we can see clearer.