Who is THE RESTRAINER in 2Thessalonians ch 2?

[WilliamL]

From my previous post on the same question:

 

2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now you know the [thing] restraining [lit., holding down/fast; the Greek is neuter: ‛that which restrains/holds down’],

that he [the Son of Perdition] may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, only the one now restraining/holding down [the Greek here is masculine: ‛he who restrains/holds fast’]

[will do so] until he is come out of the midst.

Matthew Henry (d. 1714): “This is supposed to be the power of the Roman empire, which the apostle did not think fit to mention more plainly at that time...” [The New Testament writers never openly spoke ill about the Roman authorities. If, as some claim, Paul here meant the Holy Spirit, then there would have been no reason at all for him to speak about it so obscurely.]

A. R. Fausser (1871): “...the power that has restrained the man of sin from his full and final development, is the moral and conservative influence of political states [OLSHAUSEN]: the fabric of human polity as a coercive power; as "he who now letteth" refers to those who rule that polity by which the great upbursting of godlessness is kept down [ALFORD]. The "what withholdeth" refers to the general hindrance; "he who now letteth," to the person in whom that hindrance is summed up. Romanism [papal Catholicism], as a forerunner of Antichrist, was thus kept in check by the Roman emperor (the then representative of the coercive power) until Constantine, having removed the seat of empire to Constantinople, the Roman bishop by degrees first raised himself to precedency, then to primacy, and then to sole empire above the secular power.”

Can there be any doubt that the spirit of lawlessness is now diligently working to destroy Americaʼs restraining (but waning) power against lawlessness; that is, that this spirit is subverting the governmentʼs ability to hold fast to the order of U.S. law and world law?

And that the current “he who restrains/holds fast” is the President of the United States, Donald Trump? (However incompetent to the task he may be.)

And that the Son of Perdition is waiting in the wings, preparing to step onto the stage as a deliverer during the coming time of economic and political chaos?

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/254730-are-the-us-and-trump-the-ones-restraining/

To which I might add, that everything the Biden administration is presently doing to remove America's restraining influence from the world scene, while at the same time increasing the spirit of lawlessness in this country and abroad, is laying the groundwork for the appearance of the Son of Perdition.

 

 

 

[Waggles]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Can there be any doubt that the spirit of lawlessness is now diligently working to destroy Americaʼs restraining (but waning) power against lawlessness; that is, that this spirit is subverting the government's ability to hold fast to the order of U.S. law and world law?

NO way hosé 

First Paul is writing of spiritual dynamics working against the true gospel, not of secular future world powers operating in world politics.

Second, the U.S.A. is hardly a restrainer against political wickedness as the U.S.A. is as morally corrupt as the rest of the world. 

[Omegaman 3.0]

3 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

The Holy Spirit.

That is one possibility, but do you have scriptural support for that opinion?

[Leonardo Von]

7 hours ago, David1701 said:

Nope.

The restrainer was the pagan Roman Empire, the defeat of which, in 476 A.D., paved the way for the rise of the anti-Christ - the Pope of Rome, who took over the old pagan title of Pontifex Maximus, from the latter Caesars.

Did the pagan Roman Empire restrain the mystery of lawlessness? This doesn't add up.

[David1701]

21 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

Did the pagan Roman Empire restrain the mystery of lawlessness? This doesn't add up.

The mystery of lawlessness was already at work, when Paul wrote 2 Thess.!  That is not what the restrainer was restraining.

The restrainer was restraining the revealing of the man of sin, the son of perdition.  In other words, he could not be revealed, until the restrainer was taken out of the way.

Once the pagan Roman Empire fell, that paved the way for the revealing of the man of sin, when he took over the pagan title of Pontifex Maximus (Greatest Bridge-builder, in a pagan, religious sense) and claimed to be instead of Christ (Vicar of Christ).  There is much more, and the so-called "Pope" fits all of it, which no-one else does.

[DeighAnn]

In my humble opinion, The truth it is exactly as it is written.  

ANY WITHHOLDING HERE? NO
2  Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,


ANY WITHHOLDING HERE? NO
2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


ANY WITHHOLDING HERE?   YES!!!  HERE IT IS.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME

That day, the day Christ returns and we are gathered to him comes AFTER this


except there come A FALLING AWAY first,


AND THEN AND ONLY THEN CAN 
 man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

CAN'T COME BEFORE THAT OR ELSE HOW WOULD HE DECEIVE ANYONE EVER?  HE fools everyone with his lies and deceptions and wins the over with lying signs and wonders and with flatteries, does as no king before him has in that he gives (remember when Christ was tempted?), DOESN'T TAKE, and by the end  EVERYONE will be hearing 'PEACE AND SAFETY' and believing it,  BUT IT IS ALL LIES BECAUSE THAT IS ALL HE CAN DO AND WHEN THEY ALL BELIEVE 

THEN SUDDEN DESTRUCTION COMETH CAUSE  -  HERE COMES CHRIST,

AND THEN HE IS REVEALED

revealed to be who he truly is, the Adversary, the Destroyer, THE RIDER ON THE FIRST WHITE HORSE SENT out TO OVERCOME THE WORLD, WHO had to be GIVEN A CROWN, WHO HAD nothing but A cheap/FAKE/imitation BOW to go with all his fake promises.  

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

 

2  Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth
YES, WE DO KNOW WHAT IS 'WITHHOLDING', 
IT IS

THE FALLING AWAY,
THAT'S COMING FIRST, that is what was just written, that is the only thing that was just written.  

YES, it is easy to see the mystery of iniquity ALREADY at work and has been since way back then. SHOOT, the mystery of iniquity has been at work since the garden of Eden.  SHOOT, BEFORE the garden of Eden. 

The 'falling away' MUST come first

Because RISING up and coming together of those who OPPOSE GOD is/has been taking place ALL ALONG, the BEAST aka the kings and powers and peoples of earth who love this world more than they love God,  so that WHEN Satan is/will be kicked out of heaven, he will slide right back into the position he had when INIQUITY WAS first FOUND IN HIM THE FIRST GO ROUND. 

(which if you don't understand the first time Lucifer/Satan was in charge of governing 1/3 of Gods children and THE TIME WHEN iniquity was found in him THEN also won't know WHO was CAST DOWN to EARTHY, now being born FROM ABOVE and of water into FLESH BODIES  and won't understand how he next showed up as the serpent in the garden and so it will never make any sense) anyway


that


he/Satan/the destroyer/adversary/serpent/great dragon/devil/beast/false prophet/antichrist/Apollyon/Abaddon/prince of the power of the air/king of Tyre/prince of Tyre/not our father/not our rock/the king of Babylon/the Assyrian/Liar/deceiver/overcomer etc. might be revealed in his time.


IN HIS TIME  -  and his time is not so hard to figure out because we know when it ends and what happens for the 1000 years after that.  

Again, WHO WILL BE REVEALED AFTER THE 'FALLING AWAY'

HIM, THE SON OF PERDITION, THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS with

ALL THE LIES AND DECEPTION THAT CAUSE THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE ON THE GOSPEL ARMOR, THOSE WHO instead WENT AND BOUGHT A DRESS FOR A BIG OLD PARTY UP IN HEAVEN, WHICH, I GUESS MEANS JESUS WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE TO BE AN ADVOCATE FOR ANYONE for those years. HOPEFULLY THE TWO WITNESSES WILL BE ABLE TO HANDLE ALL THAT HEAVEN USUALLY TAKes CARE OF.  THINK THAT ALL THE ARMIES OF HEAVEN AND the ANGELS GOD NORMALLY HAS HELPING OUT HERE ON EARTH gonna ALSO be to BUSY at the PARTY? AFTER ALL WHAT A GREAT TIME TO HAVE ALL OF GODS ATTENTION iN HEAVEN WHILE the TRIBULATION SUCH AS NEVER WAS SEEN is going on down on earth.  SORRY, I DIGRESS.  WHICH I would in fact be happy to quit doing if someone would answer all my questions about the pre trib rat theory, to be a part of that great falling away.  

You know, the

 ONE CHRIST WILL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING



The falling away A the thing restraining, of that there is no doubt

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The for mystery already is working of lawlessness only the restraining at present until out of the midst he might be

THE HOLDING BACK 'OF THE WORKING OF LAWLESSNESS' IS THE LACK OF SATAN BEING PRESENT

AND SATAN WON'T BE PRESENT UNTIL HE AND HIS ANGELS ARE KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN.  


So we have Satan in the midst of heaven who must first be kicked out, which will be done by Michael

We have the falling away which must take place before Satan is revealed or else there would never be a falling away and

We have 'Satans' TIME which can only be RIGHT BEFORE CHRIST RETURNS or else 1. Christ could not destroy him  with the brightness of His coming and 
2. The 1000 years sets the time Satan must be here
 

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

the day of Christ is at hand.

that day shall not come, except
1.  there come a falling away first,
2.  and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

 

Answered by #1  -   now ye know what withholdeth
Answered by #2 he might be revealed in his time.

God is going to let all this continue on as it has been until Satan is taken out of the way by Christ for the Lords Day.  

[Uriah]

On 11/30/2019 at 6:17 PM, Episcopius said:

If God is doing the withholding, how can God be taken out of the way?

 

Exactly!

NLT-And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes.

NIV- And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.

Now the version that is obsolete Greek translated into obsolete English. (with italicized words like the translators employed for clarity...) 

KJV- And now ye know what withholdeth him, it is so that he might be revealed in his time.

It is God's time withholding him. 

[Leonardo Von]

On 9/8/2021 at 8:16 PM, David1701 said:

The mystery of lawlessness was already at work, when Paul wrote 2 Thess.!  That is not what the restrainer was restraining.

The restrainer was restraining the revealing of the man of sin, the son of perdition.  In other words, he could not be revealed, until the restrainer was taken out of the way.

Once the pagan Roman Empire fell, that paved the way for the revealing of the man of sin, when he took over the pagan title of Pontifex Maximus (Greatest Bridge-builder, in a pagan, religious sense) and claimed to be instead of Christ (Vicar of Christ).  There is much more, and the so-called "Pope" fits all of it, which no-one else does.

As Jesus said:

• Mat 12:25,26 -> "And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: and if Satan casteth out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand?".

Political and religious Roman Empire are at the same side (both are instruments of Ha-Satan).

[David1701]

3 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

As Jesus said:

• Mat 12:25,26 -> "And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: and if Satan casteth out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand?".

Political and religious Roman Empire are at the same side (both are instruments of Ha-Satan).

Yes, of course.  What is your point?

By the way, in English, we just say "Satan", not "Ha-Satan".

[WilliamL]

On 9/7/2021 at 3:00 PM, Waggles said:

On 9/7/2021 at 1:01 PM, WilliamL said:

Can there be any doubt that the spirit of lawlessness is now diligently working to destroy Americaʼs restraining (but waning) power against lawlessness; that is, that this spirit is subverting the government's ability to hold fast to the order of U.S. law and world law?

NO way hosé 

First Paul is writing of spiritual dynamics working against the true gospel, not of secular future world powers operating in world politics.

Second, the U.S.A. is hardly a restrainer against political wickedness as the U.S.A. is as morally corrupt as the rest of the world. 

Your first sentence is completely unsupported by any evidence.

Regarding your second sentence, governments restrain lawlessness -- the subject that Paul was addressing in this part of 2 Thes. 2. That is why God both allows and tells us to be subject to worldy governments.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. ... 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. ... 4 ...for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. ... 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing.

But lawlessness is now spreading throughout America. For example, BLM was allowed to burn cities and attack federal buildings with impunity. Judges empty jails of violent criminals, who then commit more violence. etc. The rule of law is breaking down both here and abroad, where America used to be the world's cop, however poorly the job was sometimes done.

The Son of Perdition/Lawlessness is waiting for "lawlessness [to] increase" (Matt. 24:12) until the time is ripe for him to step onto the world stage.