Who is THE RESTRAINER in 2Thessalonians ch 2?

[Diaste]

53 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

The mystery of ...

...what's behind door #2?

[Uriah]

On 11/9/2019 at 7:45 AM, Diaste said:

What withholds is the apostasy and the revealing of the beast, what is withheld is the Return of Jesus and the gathering, to wit:

 

1Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 

2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us,

alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come.  3Let no one deceive you in any way, for

it (The Day of the Lord) will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 

6And you know what (rebellion and revealing) is now restraining him (Jesus), so that he (Jesus) may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work,

but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 

There is an issue with the above underlined phrase. If you check the Greek for "but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. " you will see it literally says "hold fast until he emerges from the middle" and is not analogous for "the Holy Spirit is restraining evil" or, "Micheal is restraining the beast."

What this says is 'the one who now restrains "it", which is the Return and the Gathering, will continue until 'he is taken out of the way' which is to say "he will no longer have a restraining influence as he has been revealed". Further, when he is taken out of the way, literally 'emerges from the middle' he is revealed as Paul says, "And then the lawless one will be revealed".

This is the only correct understanding of this passage. 

 

 

 

Nice!  This is one of those areas identified that I show the same thing as you state but explain it in another way:

And now ye know what withholdeth, its just so that he might be revealed in his time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, things continue until the time he will be taken out of the way..

And so, then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

It is the way it is written in the KJV, and the ancient Greek that-in key places- throws us off a bit. All Paul was saying that TIME was holding things back, it was not TIME yet. So taking the method used by KJV translators to add italics to make things more readable, it now reveals the intent. 

 

 

[Michael37]

19 hours ago, Uriah said:

Nice!  This is one of those areas identified that I show the same thing as you state but explain it in another way:

And now ye know what withholdeth, its just so that he might be revealed in his time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, things continue until the time he will be taken out of the way..

And so, then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

It is the way it is written in the KJV, and the ancient Greek that-in key places- throws us off a bit. All Paul was saying that TIME was holding things back, it was not TIME yet. So taking the method used by KJV translators to add italics to make things more readable, it now reveals the intent. 

Interesting input, Uriah.

The Greek word "katecho", (kat + echo),  conveys the idea of withholding, holding fast, keeping in check so certainly time is a factor, and Paul is concerned the Thessalonians were being unsettled by rumours and speculations that "the end was nigh", so he explains that the revealing of the Anthropos of Harmatia (man of sin) will have to wait for the Musterion of Anomia (mystery of iniquity) to reach its ultimate climax (antichrist apex) at which time that Anomos (that WICKED, the aforementioned Anthropos of Harmatia) will no longer be hidden behind the mysterious camouflage of deceptive propaganda and pretentious practices.

2Th 2:6-8
(6)  And now you know what withholds (katechō) that he might be revealed in his time.
(7)  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now lets (katechō) will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(8)  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Interesting input, Uriah.

The Greek word "katecho", (kat + echo),  conveys the idea of withholding, holding fast, keeping in check so certainly time is a factor, and Paul is concerned the Thessalonians were being unsettled by rumours and speculations that "the end was nigh", so he explains that the revealing of the Anthropos of Harmatia (man of sin) will have to wait for the Musterion of Anomia (mystery of iniquity) to reach its ultimate climax (antichrist apex) at which time that Anomos (that WICKED, the aforementioned Anthropos of Harmatia) will no longer be hidden behind the mysterious camouflage of deceptive propaganda and pretentious practices.

2Th 2:6-8
(6)  And now you know what withholds (katechō) that he might be revealed in his time.
(7)  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now lets (katechō) will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(8)  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Hi Michael37

In v. 6 above the word "he" is brought to attention-twice. A person can use the word "he" twice, like this, while referring to two separate individuals in the same sentence. That is what I think we are seeing here. He (God) is withholding until the time that he (the man of sin) is revealed. This provides further support for what you wrote.

[Michael37]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hi Michael37

In v. 6 above the word "he" is brought to attention-twice. A person can use the word "he" twice, like this, while referring to two separate individuals in the same sentence. That is what I think we are seeing here. He (God) is withholding until the time that he (the man of sin) is revealed. This provides further support for what you wrote.

Thanks Uriah, To continue with some thoughts about the decline in faithfulness to God on the one hand, and the rise of iniquity or disobedience to God's standard of morality and ethics on the other, it seems obvious given two World Wars and various other escalations of tyranny, that Satan is pursuing an agenda of empowerment that intrinsically enthrones a corrupt human element capable of achieving mass deception and large scale exploitation.

The restraining of Satan's agenda and its antithesis, the exaltation and glorifying of Christ by obedience to Him, is of course the essence of the Christian life.

[Buddy D. Mouse]

If God is doing the withholding, how can God be taken out of the way?

 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Antecedents aside, something or someone is withholding, until he or it be taken out of the way. We have the phrase "what withholdeth" in one verse, and the Restrainer referred to as a HE in the next verse.

God Himself can never be TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY.  Archangel Michael might "stand up out of the way", but how would the Thessalonians KNOW that Michael was the restrainer, Paul said they KNEW what we don't - the identity of what withholdeth.

I started the thread because I DON'T KNOW, but I can't see Holy Spirit as Restrainer because, again, Holy Spirit is God, and never will be gone.

 

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, Episcopius said:

Antecedents aside, something or someone is withholding, until he or it be taken out of the way. We have the phrase "what withholdeth" in one verse, and the Restrainer referred to as a HE in the next verse.

God Himself can never be TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY.  Archangel Michael might "stand up out of the way", but how would the Thessalonians KNOW that Michael was the restrainer, Paul said they KNEW what we don't - the identity of what withholdeth.

I started the thread because I DON'T KNOW, but I can't see Holy Spirit as Restrainer because, again, Holy Spirit is God, and never will be gone.

 

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

So here it's clear. The gathering and the Return of Jesus will not happen until the rebellion and the revealing occur. So the rebellion and the revealing will happen first, then sometime after this the Lord will return at the Day of the Lord, gathering His people. 

Then the passage which you rightly question arises:

" And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way."

In verse 6 it's a 'what withholds', then you are seeing 'he who now' and thinking the 'restrainer' goes from a 'what' to a 'he'. This has been tough for a great may people, including me, for many years. I was led to a teaching at one point in my life that having listened to it found it pretty far out, until I examined it for myself from the text. This portion, only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way, is saying, "...he will continue until he is revealed..." 

First, it has to be so based on the context of the preceding teaching. Paul is telling us 'what'. Paul is telling us an order of events. First the rebellion and the revealing, then the Day of the Lord and the gathering. Immediately before only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way, Paul says 'what withholds' so we have to think then that up to this point it's been events Paul is speaking about, and Paul clearly says 'what withholds', there has to be something missed, or not fully understood, in this part, only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

In the Greek a literal translation of that part of the passage is, "Merely hold fast till coming into being from out of the midst". This is perfectly in line with the previous concept Paul relates about the revealing of the man of sin, "the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Paul is telling the Thessalonians to hold on to the teaching until the man of sin emerges and is revealed in the middle. Which is aligned with Jesus teaching of the abomination of desolation; and Jesus refers us to Daniel and we understand from there the A of D occurs in the middle of the week.

While I can understand why the translators rendered the fragment as, only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way, it's not very clear and causes a lot of confusion.

Go to the Greek and see for yourself, don't believe me. Jesus and Paul know more than I do.

 

 

[Leonardo Von]

Quote

Who is THE RESTRAINER in 2Thessalonians ch 2?

The Holy Spirit.

[David1701]

24 minutes ago, Leonardo Von said:

The Holy Spirit.

Nope.

The restrainer was the pagan Roman Empire, the defeat of which, in 476 A.D., paved the way for the rise of the anti-Christ - the Pope of Rome, who took over the old pagan title of Pontifex Maximus, from the latter Caesars.