Satan and Job

[Guest]

Beginning of the book of Job, it is written that when the angels presented themselves before God, Satan came with them. 

I thought Satan had been cast out of heaven, that he fell onto this earth and has stayed ever since to cause trouble. Until the time comes when God will deal with him and destroy him. 

So, how come Satan was freely going in front of God with the angels? 

 

[johnthebaptist]

15 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

Beginning of the book of Job, it is written that when the angels presented themselves before God, Satan came with them. 

I thought Satan had been cast out of heaven, that he fell onto this earth and has stayed ever since to cause trouble. Until the time comes when God will deal with him and destroy him. 

So, how come Satan was freely going in front of God with the angels? 

 

I might question your premise. Do we really know that much about Satan?

[Guest]

Well it is clear he was thrown out from heaven so what was he doing approaching God along with the angels for this meeting? Just curious. 

[missmuffet]

18 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

Beginning of the book of Job, it is written that when the angels presented themselves before God, Satan came with them. 

I thought Satan had been cast out of heaven, that he fell onto this earth and has stayed ever since to cause trouble. Until the time comes when God will deal with him and destroy him. 

So, how come Satan was freely going in front of God with the angels? 

 

Question: "Does Satan still have access to Heaven? Why does God allow Satan to enter Heaven, as recorded in the Bible?"

Answer: Satan was originally one of God's holy angels, but he rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven (Luke 10:18). That was only the first stage of his judgment. Satan's kingdom was vanquished at the cross (John 12:31–32). Later, he will be bound in the abyss for one thousand years (Revelation 20:1–3) and then will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity (Revelation 20:10).

Until his final judgment, Satan is "the prince of this world" (John 14:30), but it seems that he still has restricted access to the heavenly realms. In Job 1:6, Satan stands in the presence of God. There is a similar situation in 2 Chronicles 18:18–21 involving a "lying spirit."

Since God is holy and absolutely without sin (Isaiah 6:3), and since He will not even look on evil (Habakkuk 1:13), how can Satan be in heaven? The answer involves God's sovereign restraint of sin. In Job 1, Satan stood before God to give an account of himself. God initiated the meeting, led the proceedings, and remained in absolute control (verse 7). The result was that Satan's power was limited (verse 12) and God was glorified.

Here are some other facts to note: 1) Satan does not have open access to God's presence. He is summoned by God. 2) The visits are temporary. His time before God's throne is limited. 3) In no way is the purity of heaven tainted by the brief, God-ordained presence of a sinful being, "quarantined," as it were, by God's regulatory power. And, 4) Satan's access is only granted prior to the final judgment. After the judgment, God creates a new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21:1), wipes away all tears from our eyes (verse 4), reveals the New Jerusalem (verse 10), and promises the complete absence of sin (verse 27).

When we say, "God cannot allow sin into heaven," we simply mean that God cannot allow human beings who are still in their sin to live in His presence. But it is possible for God to command a sinful being to stand (temporarily) in His presence in order to commission him (Isaiah 6), to exact an account from him (Job 1-2), or to judge him (Revelation 20:11–15) without compromising His holiness.

God's holiness will eventually consume all sin. Until that day, His holiness regulates sin, and that means that Satan, on certain occasions, is briefly summoned before his Creator to give an account of his actions.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-access.html

Edited November 22, 2019 by missmuffet

[Justin Adams]

18 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

I thought Satan had been cast out of heaven, that he fell onto this earth and has stayed ever since to cause trouble. Until the time comes when God will deal with him and destroy him. 

Many of the spirits that inhabit sheol or the underworld can come and go. Some are secured in Tartarus; the watchers. The dead hybrid creatures before and after the flood became demons and the rephaim (shades) still wander around causing havoc. Thru Yeshua and His Spirit we have power over them and can send them packing. No one seems to teach that anymore, and if you talk about it you are considered crazy..

The fact that some unclean spirits can come and go is provisional. As far a hasatan goes, his power has been rescinded and so have the sons of God mentioned in Psalm 82 - the ones given charge over the nations; see Deut 32.

All of the principalities and powers have been subdued under the Lord of Glory. He has put all of them under His feet. As the 70 said when they came back to Yeshua; even the demons are subject to us in your Name.

We have been declared righteous thru the Lord, and are encouraged to reign in the heavenlies. Yeshua is seated at the right hand of the Father. hasatan has no right now to approach the throne and accuse us. He has been forever cast from God's presence. His portfolio has been nullified. John tells us we now have the Authority to be called the sons of the most High. Sometimes we abrogate that position and let the powers rule over us; then we are in error. We should be taking our rightful places, but instead we seem to believe the smoke and mirrors of the departing principalities. Lies from them permeate our theology. We really need to understand this and not let them hold sway.

hasatan is the gate-keeper of the underworld or sheol. When Yeshua was standing at the foot of Mt Hermon, where the original watchers came to earth, He was at one of the places called 'the place of the snake' where there were many pantheons represented. He said; "the the gates of hell will not be able to withstand the church." This Mt. was where He was transfigured shortly before His death. He deliberately provoked the evil that surrounded Him there.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Justin Adams

[other one]

19 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

Beginning of the book of Job, it is written that when the angels presented themselves before God, Satan came with them. 

I thought Satan had been cast out of heaven, that he fell onto this earth and has stayed ever since to cause trouble. Until the time comes when God will deal with him and destroy him. 

So, how come Satan was freely going in front of God with the angels? 

 

Satan was removed from his position as the covering angel at the throne, but it doesn't appear that he has been restricted from the heavenly realm.....   I don't think we actually know enough about that realm to understand what access he still has....   and whether his  appearing before God is actually at the throne...  we don't really know where that is.    If it's just in a different dimension, it might actually be physically located next door to any of us in this dimension without us being able to see it.   People have been given permission to pear into the spiritual world to see all the angels that are around....        I don't think we know enough about the Father to understand where he has to be.         That's one of the things I personally want to ask him about when we meet like face to face....    Hoping throughout eternity we do get the chance to be around him on a personal level.

[missmuffet]

9 minutes ago, other one said:

Satan was removed from his position as the covering angel at the throne, but it doesn't appear that he has been restricted from the heavenly realm.....   I don't think we actually know enough about that realm to understand what access he still has....   and whether his  appearing before God is actually at the throne...  we don't really know where that is.    If it's just in a different dimension, it might actually be physically located next door to any of us in this dimension without us being able to see it.   People have been given permission to pear into the spiritual world to see all the angels that are around....        I don't think we know enough about the Father to understand where he has to be.         That's one of the things I personally want to ask him about when we meet like face to face....    Hoping throughout eternity we do get the chance to be around him on a personal level.

"People have been given permission to pear into the spiritual world to see all the angels that are around..."

This is interesting. Who are these people you are talking about? Where is this spiritual world you are talking about? Who has given permission to do this?

[Mal'ak]

18 hours ago, Abdicate said:

Exactly! He's still roaming around. He'll be kicked out of heaven in Revelation. He's not yet take 1/3 of the angles with him. Jesus said He same him fall as lightening, but that's still future. He's still the prince of the power of the air. He will be bound up after being kicked out. But all of that is still future.

 

Half right, half wrong: satan corrupted a 1/3 of the angels in the first Earth age before Adam and Eve.  All the demons are just angels that rebelled against God, as God did not create demons or anything evil.  They became evil, because of their will free choice, and their sin caused them to fall from grace and become demons.  But yes you are right that satan does go around where he wants right now, and will be kicked out of Heaven in Revelations.

 

19 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Many of the spirits that inhabit sheol or the underworld can come and go. Some are secured in Tartarus; the watchers. The dead hybrid creatures before and after the flood became demons and the rephaim (shades) still wander around causing havoc. Thru Yeshua and His Spirit we have power over them and can send them packing. No one seems to teach that anymore, and if you talk about it you are considered crazy..

 

Sheol is a prison, too much catholic traditions of man without any Biblical backing here from the book inferno, there are no demons or satan in Hell.  Just the non-believers and wicked, which are waiting for Jesus' return.  

 

37 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Answer: Satan was originally one of God's holy angels, but he rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven (Luke 10:18).

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

If you read Luke 10, it is talking about judgement come to evil.  the devil was not cast out of Heaven, that does not happen until the tribulation.  The demons and satan will fight Michael and his Angels to kick them out of Heaven, but this is at he end of this age.

 

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 

The reason satan is called the accuser, is because he is in Heaven at the Throne of God all the time pointing out our sins.  

I just think people are confused about what "Heaven" is, it is a spiritual realm, Heaven is on Earth and in the city where the throne of God is.  You can be sitting at your computer, and on your left is standing an Angel in the Heavenly/Spiritual realm.  You can not see him, because he is in a different realm of existence then you, but he is on Earth standing beside you but also in Heaven.

[Justin Adams]

Nowhere does the scripture say that 1/3 of the heavenly ones were with hasatan at the beginning. If you want to use Daniel or Revelation and you WANT to assume stars are angels, then it did not happen in the beginning but sometime during Messiah's birth. (if at all). Sheol is the place that rephaim are sent and others of that ilk. Some obviously have freedom to walk the earth seeking a host. But sheol is still their 'dwelling place'.

If you read Psalm 82 and Deut 32, you will see that sentence has been passed on the elohim that are sons of God. "They will die like men".

Sheol comprises elohim of past terrible creatures and also human elohim. They are ALL disembodied spirits. Sheol is the place of death and it is hasatan's domain until it it is destroyed. hasatan was cast down to erets.
erets: earth, land, Original Word: אֶרֶץ

Heavenly beings can become men as well, see many Tankh accounts of 'angels' and even see one called The Angel of the Lord, or one like unto the son of man (Yeshua). The term angel is only a description of function. Messenger or even representative. The ontology of 'angel' is not real. Their function is 'messenger'.

Seems that some get their theology from Milton's Paradise Lost. It is quite wrong on many scriptural counts.

See Psalm 82 and Deut 32 to begin with and learn about The Divine Council of God.

P.s. "angels" NEVER became demons, that is misleading and wrong. Demons are the disembodied spirits of dead Nephilim or Rephaim and the like. The Heavenly Host that fell are either in chains or still free to pollute major world affairs. They are the Archons or principalities and powers still causing world-wide trouble - they are the princes of God's realm over the nations; they are the powers that Saul talks about. In Psalm 82 God says: Ye are gods, but will die like men".

Yeshua said that He saw hasatan fall like lightning. He has been cast out for good. Revelation says the same thing. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Justin Adams

[other one]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

"People have been given permission to pear into the spiritual world to see all the angels that are around..."

This is interesting. Who are these people you are talking about? Where is this spiritual world you are talking about? Who has given permission to do this?

In the Bible Elisha 's servant was allowed to see into the spirit realm to see all the angels protecting them...  John was allowed to see into the heavenly realm to write Revelation.