Satan and Job

[missmuffet]

5 minutes ago, Melinda12 said:

I just thought angels were perfect. I am a bit troubled that angels rebelled. That Lucifer was apparently very beautiful but became too proud and then became the exact opposite of what is beauty and goodness. Horror and evil unimaginable. So even angels all have their own minds, serving God because they want to.

To have our own mind is the greatest gift from God surely. He does not want mindless obedience. So he risks our rejection. Just like you and i would not ever really want servile automatic love because it is not real love and would always be unsatisfactory. Real love is priceless because it is freely given. 

Does that make sense? Or am i rambling again to myself!

I do not believe that the angels that exist now can rebel. The only angels that rebelled were Satan(Lucifer) and 1/3 of the angels who went with him. 

[Guest]

A third of how many? Ciuld be 1000's. I presume all of them are the demons and horrors following the devil and causing untold misery on earth. 

Still, our place is to follow Jesus Christ, keep our eyes upon Him and lead as many souls as we can to do the same. I feel so lucky to know the truth and have such hope eternal. It saddens me to see so many all around who are lost, blind and deaf not knowing God loves them. 

[Justin Adams]

This is poor theology and inconclusive. The so-called 'third' of the angels is poor understanding. 

In the end, maybe a bunch mentioned in Daniel and Revelation will choose sides, but it is preposterous and not coherent to assume that heavenly beings have somehow suddenly 'lost' their freedoms.

Such poor teaching on this subject and mostly fanciful story-book ideas superimposed on the scriptures we have left have put us in a vacuum of understanding. Unless at least two scriptures can support and idea, it is probably questionable. And I mean 'scriptures' that were accepted by Yeshua and his apostles along with church fathers. (not Augustine and his ilk).

Gen 6 was thoroughly disavowed, and so today, we cannot get Yeshua's reference to 'as in the days of Noah' in any meaningful way. If you get the wrong translation, you get the wrong information. It is that simple.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Justin Adams

[Heleadethme]

On 11/22/2019 at 12:15 PM, Justin Adams said:

Many of the spirits that inhabit sheol or the underworld can come and go. Some are secured in Tartarus; the watchers. The dead hybrid creatures before and after the flood became demons and the rephaim (shades) still wander around causing havoc. Thru Yeshua and His Spirit we have power over them and can send them packing. No one seems to teach that anymore, and if you talk about it you are considered crazy..

The fact that some unclean spirits can come and go is provisional. As far a hasatan goes, his power has been rescinded and so have the sons of God mentioned in Psalm 82 - the ones given charge over the nations; see Deut 32.

All of the principalities and powers have been subdued under the Lord of Glory. He has put all of them under His feet. As the 70 said when they came back to Yeshua; even the demons are subject to us in your Name.

We have been declared righteous thru the Lord, and are encouraged to reign in the heavenlies. Yeshua is seated at the right hand of the Father. hasatan has no right now to approach the throne and accuse us. He has been forever cast from God's presence. His portfolio has been nullified. John tells us we now have the Authority to be called the sons of the most High. Sometimes we abrogate that position and let the powers rule over us; then we are in error. We should be taking our rightful places, but instead we seem to believe the smoke and mirrors of the departing principalities. Lies from them permeate our theology. We really need to understand this and not let them hold sway.

hasatan is the gate-keeper of the underworld or sheol. When Yeshua was standing at the foot of Mt Hermon, where the original watchers came to earth, He was at one of the places called 'the place of the snake' where there were many pantheons represented. He said; "the the gates of hell will not be able to withstand the church." This Mt. was where He was transfigured shortly before His death. He deliberately provoked the evil that surrounded Him there.

We have indeed been given the same authority that Jesus had, and which He delegated to His church....there needs to be more teaching and discipling around that to encourage believers to stand in that authority and use it for His glory.  Jesus went around healing all who were oppressed by the devil.

[Justin Adams]

5 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

We have indeed been given the same authority that Jesus had, and which He delegated to His church....there needs to be more teaching and discipling around that to encourage believers to stand in that authority and use it for His glory.  Jesus went around healing all who were oppressed by the devil.

Very true. I think most would rather haggle over 'theology' than actually go out in the Power we have been given. So little teaching on this, and when a place IS visited by the Spirit, it often transpires that a 'new' movement gets set up... and then it becomes passe. I like to read Smith Wigglesworth to get a real-feel of all this. He was an amazing man.

[Justin Adams]

I feel that we are over civilized. I just spent an hour listening to someone disparage a movement that proclaims Healing and the like.

Everytime I come across someone preaching an Acts like set of occurrences, I find dozens that call it a cult or something like that and want to bad-mouth folk that believe they are doing the right thing. The established religion bases seem to find a kind of perverse strength in opposing these various movements. This is such a sad shame. I have come across 'haters' in my own personal life and can find no words to defend myself or the ones that really think they do the right thing.

Even if one is called by God to do this kind of thing or preach FOR it there will be so many detractors that just come out of the woodwork to oppose it all. I sense a deep spiritual void is driving this force against truth and the truth of the Gospel. It makes one seem very alone. I do not have a handle on everything and from time to time vary my ideas, but the central feelings I have are not changed. I hate death and disease, strife and disharmony and see many that are lost to their various addictions and fears latch onto some kind of panacea or activity that offsets thought and genuine conversation. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Justin Adams

[other one]

6 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

I just thought angels were perfect. I am a bit troubled that angels rebelled. That Lucifer was apparently very beautiful but became too proud and then became the exact opposite of what is beauty and goodness. Horror and evil unimaginable. So even angels all have their own minds, serving God because they want to.

To have our own mind is the greatest gift from God surely. He does not want mindless obedience. So he risks our rejection. Just like you and i would not ever really want servile automatic love because it is not real love and would always be unsatisfactory. Real love is priceless because it is freely given. 

Does that make sense? Or am i rambling again to myself!

Our problem is that when Satan comes to us it is not that ugly red horned guy with a tail and a pitchfork.   Any of us without the Holy Spirit will see him as that beauty and goodness....   and he comes offering everything you ever wanted.....      To start with....     and as the relationship goes on the darkness gets deeper and deeper and one day you realize that you have fallen into something you can't get out of...…     at least without the direct action of the Lord...   and some don't seem to be able to ask for help....   and others I have met decided they didn't want any help.

I met an old witch one night who would tell you that she understands who the devil is and the fact that He's going to be thrown in the fire.....    but when she was totally down it was Satan that came and lifted her out of the pit of despair and she was going to follow him to wherever....    Knowing she's going to hell but it's ok.      Totally mind boggling....     but that's the way he can get inside people's heads.   If anything in this world scares me this is it for I know that if it was not for the Holy Spirit that is exactly where I'd be.

[other one]

5 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

Do you mean outside of the Bible canon of 66 books?

 

What do you mean?

Btw this thread is not about our freedom of choice, it's about Satan and his demons.

Just a note to make sure you understand that demons are not fallen angels....    they are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.  Fallen angels have bodies and don't need to possess other beings...  

[Alive]

5 minutes ago, other one said:

Just a note to make sure you understand that demons are not fallen angels....    they are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.  Fallen angels have bodies and don't need to possess other beings...  

Would you please show me where this is?

[other one]

Just now, Alive said:

Would you please show me where this is?

I would have a bit of trouble with that unless you could spend some time understanding that the knowledge of the book of 1 Enoch was widely available and believed in the time of Christ.  If you do not accept the Book of 1 Enoch as being generally true I would have trouble showing you in the Bible....   Hours of discussion of context of some scripture would have to be carried out which I really don't have the inclination to do any longer....    We've been through it too many times in the past here over the last 16 years.

For me it was a bit easier for I had two of them living with my family back in the 70's for about ten years assigned to me to bring me into Satan's fold....    Got to know them quite well and they directed my education into the dark side to depths I really would not care to ever talk/write about anywhere/anytime.

So that's pretty much where the discussion is and it's future depends on whether you accept any truths whatsoever outside the cannon as being reality.