GALATIANS 1:8 WHO IS ACCURSED ?

[Resurrection Priest]

22 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Repentance is great....They just are NOT the instruments that God uses for Salvation

To "repent" means "to turn" - as in a different direction. 

One must "turn" towards Christ, to be saved.   One does not have to reach perfection.  He just has to be facing in the right direction - towards Christ. 

[Resurrection Priest]

My argument has been against the animal sacrifices of the "First Covenant", that were offered by Levite/Aaronic priests.  I believe that priesthood has been "changed" - BACK TO the priesthood of "the firstborn".  Christ IS "the firstborn" of God.  When we are "in Him" we become priests of that order. 

I do believe "the Law was our tutor to bring us to Christ" - both the prophetic TYPES and the unchanging moral laws.  I just believe the prophetic animal sacrifices are done, now that Christ has become the "one true sacrifice" for all time. 

I am not against the Ten Commandments.  I just believe they are useless without the Spirit of Christ within.  They ARE like a "millstone" around the neck.  They are like an instruction manual for a car - without any gas. 

        The teachings of Jesus went beyond the simple 10 Commandments of the Sinai Covenant - given for a people newly released from slavery.  Under the New Covenant we are to pray for our enemies - for those who use us or persecute us.  We are to love one another as He loved us.  These are higher standards.   These higher standards do NOT void the standards enjoined by the Sinai Covenant.  Rather they ADD TO them. 

The Sinai Covenant said, "You are not to commit adultery."  Jesus said that looking upon a woman as just a sex object, IS adultery.  A higher standard.  One involved only the outward action.  The other involved motive and "the heart". 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The following refers to the post below————-I agree 100%....... this is what I have been saying for the Two Years or so that I have been participating here at Worthy...when I say  “ repentance” does not save or keep one saved, I am talking about the way it is understood here 99% of the time.....which is to commit a sin , regret a sin , tell God that you are sorry about it and try not to do it again...and make DARNED SURE that you do it BEFORE you die.ALL of these are great things—they just don’t save and they do not KEEP you saved.THAT is turning something good into something that just becomes  a DEAD WORK. The Repentance That plays a part in one’s Salvation is Believing in Jesus.The “ change of mind”  ( Greek , Metanoia or literal “  mind change”) that takes one from UNBELIEF in Christ to BELIEF in Christ.....One can “Repent” Without Believing , But is impossible to Believe without Repenting......

I think we are on the same page......It is refreshing to find somebody that understands the True Biblical View on this important matter......God Bless...

 

 

To "repent" means "to turn" - as in a different direction. 

One must "turn" towards Christ, to be saved.   One does not have to reach perfection.  He just has to be facing in the right direction - towards Christ. 

  

Edited December 18, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

The Sinai Covenant said, "You are not to commit adultery."  Jesus said that looking upon a woman as just a sex object, IS adultery.  A higher standard.  One involved only the outward action.  The other involved motive and "the heart". 

That “higher standard” is PERFECTION !  Jesus was showing the true intent if the LAW, which was to show everyone that it could NOT be kept .  You MUST have a Savior. Refuse to “ Believe in  the  One that He sent” and His Gospel Of Grace and the IMPUTED PERFECTION that He freely offers, and you will discover that God was not kidding when He proclaimed “ Ye must be Perfect- Even as your Father in Heaven is perfect”. Seize upon God’s “ loop- hole”——The Gospel Of Grace....1cor15:1-4...... Make Certain that you REST in it......    

[Retrobyter]

On 12/14/2019 at 4:50 PM, Alive said:

Yup---the transition for those apostles being Jews was not an easy one and it was slow.

In the early years, the Church was closely tied to the synagogue system and indeed much of the structure that Paul set up for local assemblies came in large part from the synagogue system. This all worked really well because there were synagogues in every city, so it served the Lord for the spreading of the Gospel.

In the early years, Rome still considered Christianity a Jewish sect and tolerated it.

At a point the Lord stepped in and busted that relationship to pieces ultimately severing Moses from Christ. Law from Grace. And so the story goes.

The enemy would seek to reverse that. Of all of the heresies, the most insidious are those that try to put mans efforts at the fore. This appeals to the natural man. "Oh, that Ishmael might live"--when it is Isaac, the son of promise that represents life. A gift. A free gift of Grace through faith.

 

Shalom, Alive.

Well, that's a twisted scenario. The original believers WERE Jews! They weren't just "tied to the synagogue system." The word "synagogue" is a Greek word transliterated: "sunagoogee."

4864 sunagoogee (soon-ag-o'-gay). From (the reduplicated form of) sunagoo; an assemblage of persons; specially, a Jewish "synagogue" (the meeting or the place); by analogy, a Christian church
-- assembly, congregation, synagogue.

4863 sunagoo (soon-ag'-o). From sun and agoo; to lead together, i.e. Collect or convene; specially, to entertain (hospitably)
-- + accompany, assemble (selves, together), bestow, come together, gather (selves together, up, together), lead into, resort, take in.

4862 sun (soon). A primary preposition denoting union; with or together (but much closer than meta or para), i.e. By association, companionship, process, resemblance, possession, instrumentality, addition, etc.
-- beside, with. In composition it has similar applications, including completeness.

71 agoo (ag'-o). A primary verb; properly, to lead; by implication, to bring, drive, (reflexively) go, (specially) pass (time), or (figuratively) induce
-- be, bring (forth), carry, (let) go, keep, lead away, be open.

What is a "church?" That Greek word, most know, is ...

1577 ekkleesia (ek-klay-see'-ah). From a compound of ek and a derivative of kaleoo; a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both)
-- assembly, church.

They are SUPPOSED to be the same! It wasn't until the end of the First Century A.D. and into the Second and Third that a massive push toward anti-Semitism was accepted by those who considered themselves part of the "Church" (capital "C"), splitting themselves away from their Jewish roots!

However, originally, we read ...

Ephesians 2:11-18 (KJV)

11 Wherefore remember, that ye [the Ephesian believers] being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ (without a Messiah), being aliens from the commonwealth (citizenship) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 

13 But now in Christ Jesus (within the Messiah Yeshua`) ye [the Ephesian Gentile believers] who sometimes were far off are made nigh (near) by the blood of Christ (the blood of the Messiah). 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you [the Ephesian Gentile believers] which were afar off, and to them [the citizens of Israel] that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

We should be Jews and Gentiles worshipping God TOGETHER in the Messiah Yeshua`!

[BibleGuy]

3 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

What about the circumcision of Joshua?

I thought Joshua "circumcised" all the men after crossing the Jordan into the land, because no circumcision was performed during the 40 years wandering. 

Weren't those men of all ages?  Only those over 60 at the time of the Jordan crossing would have been circumcised - as infants. 

Joshua 5:3 "So Joshua made flint knives and circumcised the Israelites on the Hill of the Foreskins."

Joshua 5:5  "For all the people who came out [of Egypt] were circumcised, but all the people who were born in the wilderness along the way as they came out of Egypt had not been circumcised."  

Joshua 5:7 "And their children [the children of all those over 20 who died in the wilderness] whom He [the LORD] raised up in their place, Joshua circumcised; for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them along the way."

QUESTION:  What is your understanding of WHY circumcision had not been performed (even on infants) during the 40 years of wandering?  Did the LORD regard them as not in covenant with Him? 

" I thought Joshua "circumcised" all the men after crossing the Jordan into the land, because no circumcision was performed during the 40 years wandering."

Yes.  That's a unique historical event, not a commanded ongoing routine.

And, WHO was circumcised in Jos.5?  THE SONS OF ISRAEL (mentioned seven times in Jos.5).

Are adult-male-Gentile-converts mentioned in Jos.5?  No, they are not.

 

"Joshua 5:5  "For all the people who came out [of Egypt] were circumcised, but all the people who were born in the wilderness along the way as they came out of Egypt had not been circumcised."  "

Again, the context is clearly THE SONS OF ISRAEL (mentioned seven times in Jos.5), NOT adult-male-Gentile-converts.

 

The ONGOING mark of circumcision is via INFANT circumcision (Lev.12:3;Ge.17:12).

That's why 100% Torah-obedient Paul can require ALL Torah for all Christians, and simultaneously exclude adult-male-Gentile-convert circumcision requirements (1Cor.7:19).....again, because Torah does not even require adult-male-Gentile-convert circumcision, as far as I can tell.

 

"QUESTION:  What is your understanding of WHY circumcision had not been performed (even on infants) during the 40 years of wandering?  Did the LORD regard them as not in covenant with Him? "

Good question....Not sure!

Ge. 17 appears to require that they SHOULD have been circumcising their sons on the 8th day.....I'm not sure why they did not....Moses' son was almost killed for not having been circumcised....but evidently things were somewhat different during the wilderness wanderings....

Maybe the VAST MAJORITY of those wandering in the wilderness were simply VERY disobedient....after all, most of them died in the wilderness because of their complaints and lack of faith.

So, maybe the VAST MAJORITY of those wandering in the wilderness were not walking properly in covenant-obedience.

But it does say ALL.....so maybe that doesn't quite work.

And, the fact that widespread circumcision WAS practiced in Jos.5 confirms the theory that a significant revival of repentance occurred about that time, thus resulting in the act of obedience in circumcising the SONS OF ISRAEL.

 

And, I don't have to look it up right now....so check for me!  Did the Israelites practice Pesach during the wilderness wanderings?

 

blessings...

[Alive]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Alive.

Well, that's a twisted scenario. The original believers WERE Jews! They weren't just "tied to the synagogue system." The word "synagogue" is a Greek word transliterated: "sunagoogee."

4864 sunagoogee (soon-ag-o'-gay). From (the reduplicated form of) sunagoo; an assemblage of persons; specially, a Jewish "synagogue" (the meeting or the place); by analogy, a Christian church
-- assembly, congregation, synagogue.

4863 sunagoo (soon-ag'-o). From sun and agoo; to lead together, i.e. Collect or convene; specially, to entertain (hospitably)
-- + accompany, assemble (selves, together), bestow, come together, gather (selves together, up, together), lead into, resort, take in.

4862 sun (soon). A primary preposition denoting union; with or together (but much closer than meta or para), i.e. By association, companionship, process, resemblance, possession, instrumentality, addition, etc.
-- beside, with. In composition it has similar applications, including completeness.

71 agoo (ag'-o). A primary verb; properly, to lead; by implication, to bring, drive, (reflexively) go, (specially) pass (time), or (figuratively) induce
-- be, bring (forth), carry, (let) go, keep, lead away, be open.

What is a "church?" That Greek word, most know, is ...

1577 ekkleesia (ek-klay-see'-ah). From a compound of ek and a derivative of kaleoo; a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both)
-- assembly, church.

They are SUPPOSED to be the same! It wasn't until the end of the First Century A.D. and into the Second and Third that a massive push toward anti-Semitism was accepted by those who considered themselves part of the "Church" (capital "C"), splitting themselves away from their Jewish roots!

However, originally, we read ...

Ephesians 2:11-18 (KJV)

11 Wherefore remember, that ye [the Ephesian believers] being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ (without a Messiah), being aliens from the commonwealth (citizenship) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 

13 But now in Christ Jesus (within the Messiah Yeshua`) ye [the Ephesian Gentile believers] who sometimes were far off are made nigh (near) by the blood of Christ (the blood of the Messiah). 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you [the Ephesian Gentile believers] which were afar off, and to them [the citizens of Israel] that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

We should be Jews and Gentiles worshipping God TOGETHER in the Messiah Yeshua`!

I am sorry if I offended you.

What I wrote isn't twisted. Its a matter of history.

The focus shifted to a gentile witness and the great early evangelism sprung from Antioch and later Rome. My thoughts were never anti-Semitic, if that is what you are thinking.

It didn't take long before the vast majority of Believers were gentiles and before that the majority of converts were those referred to as 'god-fearers' from the gentile ranks.

Of course--In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

 

I meant no offense.

[Behold]

20 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

Gal.1:8 is preached by PAUL

 

NO, he does not preach that verse.  He is explaining that the deceived, religious, heretics, who preach it.......like you.......are "cursed".

He's talking about anyone who is trying to substitute works and commandment keeping and obedience, in place of GRACE.

That is YOU, and a few others on this Forum & Thread.

He says you are all "fallen from Grace", because you do not accept that "faith is accepted as/for righteousness" by GOD, and you do not believe that "justification by Faith" is TRUE.  You do not believe that Salvation is a "Gift"...  So that is why you and a few just like you are here ranting about your religion of works in place of the Grace of God, which is the Gospel that Paul teaches and preaches.

Do you want to know what an enemy of the Cross is?....Is what you and a few others are teaching.

That's what you've become, while thinking that your self righteous theology is the gospel.

Thats how confused and deceived you have become....... You are now preaching against the CROSS, thinking you are led of the Holy Spirit.

Fair warning to the group thats doing this.....

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Behold

[simplejeff]

1 minute ago, Behold said:

He's talking about anyone who is trying to substitute works and commandment keeping and obedience, in place of GRACE.

That is YOU, and a few others on this Forum & Thread.

False grace has been seen,   but what you say has not been seen by "others on this Forum & Thread".

 

For a couple years,   asking for a quote of ANYONE who thinks they can obtain salvation by keeping the Law,  NOT ONE has been quoted so far.

[Resurrection Priest]

12 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

And, I don't have to look it up right now....so check for me!  Did the Israelites practice Pesach during the wilderness wanderings?

 

No.

My thinking is that Israel (which included the "mixed multitude" - of Gentile "converts"), were under the LORD's testing during those 40 years.  There were not "in Covenant" because they had rebelled against the LORD and His appointed prophet/leader/shepherd - a TYPE of our rebellion against God the Father and His Son (the prophet like Moses/the shepherd).  The LORD was "testing" them "the know their hearts" toward Him. 

If the males of the "mixed multitude" were not circumcised, what happened to "There shall be one law, for the stranger as well as for the native" ?   

It is my understanding that Caleb was a Kenizzite - a great grandson of Esau.  He was would have been one of the mixed multitude, assimilated into the tribe of Judah.  Joshua was of the tribe of Ephraim.  There were three men of faith, who came out of Egypt (who were were over 20 at the first approach to the border)  who and finally crossed over Jordan into the promised land (because of their great faith).     The three together represent the kingdom of Yeshua.  Aaron's son Eleazar (Jesus our High Priest - who replaced the original priest Aaron), Joshua (DNA Hebrews) and Caleb (grafted in "aliens").