GALATIANS 1:8 WHO IS ACCURSED ?

[BibleGuy]

5 hours ago, KJVOnly said:

Leviticus 20:14 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁴ And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

 

Kill em all, let God sort em out?

That is what you preach in Hebrew Roots circles?

Yikes?

You dare to mock GOD's laws?

Shame on you....

Torah requires death penalties whether you like it or not.

Those death penalties are GOOD (Rom.7:12), or else Paul was a liar.

You choose.

I actually trust GOD.

How about you?

 

 

[BibleGuy]

5 hours ago, KJVOnly said:

Which tribe do you Tithe to?

Already told you.

You don't listen.

Tithing is not presently observable, because we don't have a functioning " אוֹצָר ".  Mal.3

 

[BibleGuy]

5 hours ago, KJVOnly said:

 

How silly....

 

 

¹³ And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

¹⁴ But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

¹⁵ But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

"the end of that which is abolished"

Of COURSE the glory on Moses' face faded away....and OF COURSE the Old Covenant passes away (Heb.8:13).

Agreed!

And the SAME TORAH of Moses passes into the NEW Covenant (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16).

NEW Covenant (Jer.31:31;Heb.8:8).

SAME Torah (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16), or else Jeremiah is a false prophet (Dt.13:1-5).

 

But hey, I've only told you this like a dozen times....

But what do you do?

You IGNORE it, and talk about something else.....

BRILLIANT logic there, buddy!

 

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Yes......these “ Death Penalties” are so great! Poor Jesus, He must have been having “ an off day” when He didn’t have the Woman caught in the very act of Adultery stoned to death.Who “ mislead” Him onto thinking that Mercy and Compassion could trump Law....Some In here would be salivating to “ cast the first stone”....

[Resurrection Priest]

I've been asked to give a talk to a group of local women, from several different churches in this area, about the Ancient Feast Days, and how they were prophesied what Christ would do, and will yet do.

I'm just wondering . . . if the Temple with all of the Sinai Levite priesthood, and all the animal sacrifices is still needed, for teaching and commemorative purposes on what Christ did - how could I today understand what Christ did?  How could any person understand it, who did not actually go up to that Temple, and did not present an animal for sacrifice (and kill that animal too by the way)?  That's a whopping lot of people - who didn't/don't "really" understand what God did by sending His Son to die for us. 

I just can't believe that system of killing - that giant slaughter house, is "needed" for folks to understand what God did for us.  

I understand what an animal looks like when it's dying.  My grandfather owned a slaughter house.  He used to take me out there when I was only 4-6 years old.  It was yucky!  The animals could smell the blood.  They were terrified!  I remember a great big guy who cut the animals to gut them, and how the guts spilled out on the slaughterhouse floor.  I can still close my eyes and see it.  The smell out there was awful.  Can't even imagine a constant, unending barbecue smell (incense not withstanding).  Not my idea of the earth made new.   

To bring that many animals into the heart of Jerusalem, would take stockyards all around the city.  Yuk!

I completely embrace God's use of the sacrificial system, in concert with the Feast Days as prophecy.  I do NOT BELIEVE that system was still needed for folks after "the Cross" to believe in Yeshua as Savior.  Though I have seen the light of appreciation in the eyes of those who "see" for the first time, how Christ fulfills the ancient Feast prophecies.   They are often amazed at the intricacy and detail.  They have "seen it" because I've told them about it, NOT because they went up to Jerusalem to see the killing/burning of animals.  They've looked at pictures. 

Besides, no one standing in the Courtyard can see into the Temple anyway.  They cannot "see" what the priest does in there, any more than we can "see" into Heaven - where our High Priest is presently ministering.  Someone has to explain it to them, or show them pictures.  That's no different from what we can do now - showing pictures and explaining what happened. 

I do believe "the Feasts of the LORD" will be celebrated in the earth made new.  NOT with the slaughter of animals, but with Christ Himself, and with His Melchizedek priests.  

[BibleGuy]

4 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

No!

Christ for justification!  Not TORAH.  Not even SPIRIT.  ONLY Christ!

"we have now been justified by his blood, (Rom 5:9 NIV)

This is present tense.  We who are "in Christ" are justified.  There is NOTHING ELSE I need to do.  I already HAVE that justification.  I have been declared righteous, because I am covered with HIS righteousness.  That is the "shield of righteousness" (Eph 6).

We were drawn by the Spirit of God the Father.   We saw the Father's love for us (in His gift of His Son).  We believed.  We were filled with His Spirit.  We loved Him back.  We love Him by loving others.   We are enabled by His Spirit to do this. 

We were certainly NOT justified by keeping His commandments.  That is the result (the effect) - not the cause. 

John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commands."

1 John 4:19 "We love because He first loved us."

We are "reconciled" TO God the Father THROUGH the blood of Christ the Son. 

 

You think I am saying we can be justified without any works at all.  I'm NOT SAYING THAT. 

I'm saying that one is cause.  The other is effect. 

We were justified FIRST - through pure love alone - His love for us. 

THEN we will do good works, because His Spirit lives in us. 

When James says "faith without works is dead" - He means that a person who claims to be born again, who then always acts selfishly, is NOT REALLY "born of the Spirit".  He's a fake.  (Though we won't be perfect until after the resurrection.) 

When James writes:  James 2:22 "You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;",  he is explaining that Abraham's faith was perfectly revealed by his "works" (deeds). 

Just remember who gets the credit for our good works.  Jesus - of course.  It is His Spirit working in us and through us.  He is the enabler.  We only consent - we volunteer to be used by Him. 

"No!  Christ for justification!  Not TORAH.  Not even SPIRIT.  ONLY Christ!"

Now actually READ the verses I cited, which prove justification by TORAH (Rom.2:13), WORKS (Jas.2:24) AND SPIRIT (1Cor.6:11) and the NAME OF CHRIST (1Cor.6:11) and FAITH (Rom.5:1) and the BLOOD (Rom.5:9) AND grace (Rom.3:24).

ALL TOGETHER!

STOP the picking-and-choosing.

It's a 7-course meal!

It's not HOMETOWN CHRISTIAN BUFFET, where you pick-and-choose only the parts of the Bible that you like.

 

"There is NOTHING ELSE I need to do. "

James did not lie (Jas.2:24).

Paul did not lie (Rom.2:13).

 

"I have been declared righteous, because I am covered with HIS righteousness. "

And we who are righteous must DO RIGHTEOUSNESS (1Jn.2:29;3:7) or else you are a child of the devil (1Jn.3:10) who will NOT inherit the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:20).

We do righteousness AS WITNESSED BY THE TORAH AND PROPHETS (Rom.3:21) RIGHT HERE:  Dt.6:25; Is.56:1; Da. 12:3; Eze. 18:5-9.  That's TORAH-OBEDIENT righteousness that we DO.

 

"We were drawn by the Spirit of God the Father."

And the SPIRIT testifies we obey TORAH (Heb.10:15-16), even all Torah ordinances (Eze.36:27) "from now and forever" (citing Is.59:20-21 at Rom.11:26-27), because the Spirit leads us to OBEY Torah (Heb.8:13 + Heb.8:7), because the words of Jesus are the very substance of the Holy Spirit (Jn.6:63) which includes TORAH (Mt.4:4;5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42;22:37;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20).

The SPIRIT even leads us to offer sacrifices (Ps.51:10,19).  PAUL applies this Psalm to YOU (Eph.5:19;Col.3:16).  So be sure to offer sacrifices, when properly observable, as Paul requires, as the Spirit requires.

 

"I already HAVE that justification. "

And you can lose it!  (Eze.18)

So DO RIGHTEOUSNESS (1Jn.2:29;3:7) or else you are a child of the devil (1Jn.3:10) who will NOT inherit the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:20).

That's TORAH-OBEDIENT righteousness (Dt.6:25;Is.56:1;Da.12:3;Eze.18:5-9;Mt.5:20;2Ti.3:16) witnessed by the TORAH and the PROPHETS and the MESSIAH and PAUL.

 

"We were certainly NOT justified by keeping His commandments. "

WE WHO DO THE LAW WILL BE JUSTIFIED (Rom.2:13).

Sounds like DOING LAW is connected to JUSTIFICATION!

 

"John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commands.""

Yes.  That's ALL TORAH (Mt.4:4;5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42;22:37;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28).

 

"I'm saying that one is cause.  The other is effect. "

ALL are part of the justification package:  GRACE (Rom.3:24), BLOOD (Rom.5:9), WORKS (Jas.2:24), LAW (Rom.2:13), FAITH (Rom.5:1), SPIRIT (1Cor.6:11), NAME OF CHRIST (1Cor.6:11).

 

"We were justified FIRST"

The GRACE part is arguably first (Rom.3:24;Ex.33:13)....but Torah is also part of the package (Ex.33:13 + 1Ki.2:3;Rom.2:13;Jas.2:24).

 

"Just remember who gets the credit for our good works.  Jesus - of course.  "

Agreed!

We could never pay the price for ourselves.

ONLY His blood takes our sins away (1Jn.1:7)....IF we walk in the light (1Jn.1:7), which is TORAH (Ps.119:105).

 

"He is the enabler."

Yes....Jn.6:44 confirms that "The Father draws" is a necessary condition of our coming to Christ.

But!

That doesn't prove that the Father's decision procedures (used to determine whom to draw) do not take into account our obedience.

After all, God chose Abraham BECAUSE Abraham obeyed God's commands (Ge.26:5).

And if God does not respect persons (Ac.10:34), then he'll choose us too, IF we obey, just like our father Abraham.

 

blessings...

[BibleGuy]

6 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
 (NIV)

I came before GOD in the person of Yeshua Messiah, to claim His body and blood as MY SACRIFICE.   When I did that, I was "justified" by faith. 

There is NOTHING ELSE I need to do! 

 

It is a lie of the Enemy that I must do something else - to atone for my sin by good works or sacrifices of some kind, to prove my love for God. 

Romans 5:11 "Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation."

The word "reconciliation" is the same word also translated as "atonement". 

 

Good works come into the picture, because they are THE RESULT of our new friendship relationship with Christ, and the RESULT of His Spirit within us.

BibleGuy,

I don't think you believe that we need to present animals for sacrifice, in order to receive atonement, or in order to be justified.  We already HAVE those things. 

(If I've understood you), you think we should/will do those things to commemorate Christ's death and His works for us.  Much like Christians today, "eat the bread" and "drink the wine".  

Is that right?

 

 

Yes, we are instantly justified by faith.

But Biblical faith is Torah-obedient faith....so subsequent faithful Torah-obedient is Biblical and expected and required and commanded and proper.

 

"There is NOTHING ELSE I need to do! "

But you can lose your justification (Eze.18;Heb.6:4-6;Heb.10:26-27).

And you are cleansed by the blood (1Jn.1:7) IF you walk in the light (1Jn.1:7) which is TORAH (Ps.119:105).

You are His disciple IF YOU CONTINUE IN HIS WORD (Jn.8:31) which requires ALL TORAH (Mt. 5:19;23:2-3,23).

You are saved by the Gospel IF YOU HOLD FAST TO THE WORD PAUL PREACHED (1Cor.15:1-5) which includes FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt.30:14 at Rom.10:8).

 

So let's not disregard the CONDITIONAL aspects of salvation/justification.

Conditional upon what? 

Conditional upon WORKS.

We must be justified by WORK WE DO (Jas.2:24).

We must WALK IN WORKS (Eph.2:10).

Works of what?

TORAH! (Dt.6:25;Is.56:1;Da.12:3;Eze.18:5-9;2Ti.3:16;Mt.5:20;1Cor.7:19;1Jn.5:3;Ac. 10:35).

 

"Good works come into the picture, because they are THE RESULT of our new friendship relationship with Christ"

Abraham was God's friend (Is.41:8), chosen by God BECAUSE ABRAHAM OBEYED GOD'S COMMANDS (Ge.26:5).

Let's be like our father Abraham....and be chosen by God BECAUSE we obey God's commands with faith (Ge.15:6).

 

blessings...

 

 

[Resurrection Priest]

37 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

The NEW COVENANT which is given as TORAH (Jer.31;33;Heb.8:10).  I LOVE it!

Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8, say the LORD will write His Law on our hearts.  OK.  His Law.   But how do you know the LORD has made no "change" to "His Law", from OT to NT?  'Cause if HE made no "change" whatsoever, then it's NOT "NEW".  It's just re-newed.  And that has been the argument of Messianics - that there's nothing "new".

Ancient Israelites did not worship Messiah.  Ancient Israelites did not yet know about the Cross of Christ.  They didn't know that God has a Son.  They didn't know that His Son sits beside Him on His throne.  So many things they didn't know.  

A lot hinges on one word - "changed".  You define it one way, and stick to that definition.  Strong's gives more than one definition. 

3346 metati,qhmi metatithemi {met-at-ith'-ay-mee}
Meaning:  1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other) 1a) to transfer 1b) to change 1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred 1c1) to go or pass over 1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another

I go with definition #1.  A new priesthood put in place of the old one. 

I go with #1, because the writer of Hebrews names and describes that "new" priesthood - Melchizedek - "the firstborn", which is "put in place of" the Levite/Aaronic. 

I go with #1, because "there is also a change of the Law" to allow for that "change" of the priesthood.  The definition of "change" has to be the SAME for both uses of the word.  They're in the same sentence. 

"The priesthood being changed, there is of necessity also a change of the Law" (Hebrews 7:12). 

Now - the "change" to the Law is limited to the change of the priesthood.   It's not that the whole thing was revised. 

IF - big IF - there is a Temple during the millennium to come,  the priesthood ministering at that Temple will be Melchizedek - NOT LEVITE.   The Levite only prophesied of the Melchizedek to come, just as the lambs prophesied Christ to come.  The "Sons of Zadok" will be those who stand by Yeshua Messiah.  The original Sons of Zadok (who stood by David) were a prophecy of the ones to come. 

Yes - I think it very possible that some of the original "sons of Zadok" may become Melchizedek priests for the kingdom to come. 

[BibleGuy]

6 hours ago, Behold said:

I told you to go and read all my Posts to BibleMan.  

Pick one of the last 40, and just read what im writing as a response to his posts.

His POSTS are his quotes.  Go find them ALL.

They all preach   "Cross + Torah" = Salvation.

Jesus preaches:   DISOBEY TORAH AND EXPERIENCE THIS =====> Mt. 5:19

or worse (Mt.5:20)

or worse (Mt.7:21-23)

or worse (Mt.13:41-42)

 

Not sure why ANYBODY would want to disobey, in light of these WORDS OF JESUS.

 

blessings....

[Resurrection Priest]

5 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

Yes, we are instantly justified by faith.

But Biblical faith is Torah-obedient faith....so subsequent faithful Torah-obedient is Biblical and expected and required and commanded and proper.

 

"There is NOTHING ELSE I need to do! "

But you can lose your justification (Eze.18;Heb.6:4-6;Heb.10:26-27).

And you are cleansed by the blood (1Jn.1:7) IF you walk in the light (1Jn.1:7) which is TORAH (Ps.119:105).

You are His disciple IF YOU CONTINUE IN HIS WORD (Jn.8:31) which requires ALL TORAH (Mt. 5:19;23:2-3,23).

You are saved by the Gospel IF YOU HOLD FAST TO THE WORD PAUL PREACHED (1Cor.15:1-5) which includes FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt.30:14 at Rom.10:8).

 

So let's not disregard the CONDITIONAL aspects of salvation/justification.

Conditional upon what? 

Conditional upon WORKS.

We must be justified by WORK WE DO (Jas.2:24).

We must WALK IN WORKS (Eph.2:10).

Works of what?

TORAH! (Dt.6:25;Is.56:1;Da.12:3;Eze.18:5-9;2Ti.3:16;Mt.5:20;1Cor.7:19;1Jn.5:3;Ac. 10:35).

First:    We must be faithful to the changed TORAH.    Not exactly the same as the First Covenant TORAH.   New priesthood.  New sacrifice = Yeshua the Lamb of God.

Second:  No one has ever been perfectly obedient - except Yeshua.   His blood covers my failures, and the sins I have commit in ignorance. 

I think the only way to be "lost" (after being justified by the blood of Christ and receiving His Spirit) - is to openly rebel against Him.  By that I mean to knowingly continue to do that which He has forbidden, in an attitude of rebellion.  Sin "with attitude" if you will.   For that, "there remains no sacrifice".  By that type of attitude, the person "crucifies the Son of God again".    (This is not a sin that you personally hate and struggle against, but have not fully conquered yet. )