Are the 10 Commandments called "the moral law"?

[Blood Bought 1953]

56 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I don't remember exactly where I heard this, but it was at a Hebrew Roots gathering.  The teacher pointed out three types of sin, in the OT.  

1.  sins of ignorance:  covered by the moed - the continual morning/evening sacrifice until the sinner came to understand that he had sinned.  Then a sin offering was required.

2.  missing the mark:  person was trying, but tripped and fell.  Sin offering required (confession and restitution).  Most sins committed by "Christians" fall in this category.

3.  rebellious sin:  Sin with attitude.  There was no sacrifice for this type of sin.  If the sinner truly had a change of heart, then he could bring a sin offering. 

Where would you put the sin of Ananias and Sapphira?  They were members of the congregation.  They had most probably been baptized.  They had "believed", else they would not be promising money to support the congregation led by Peter there at Jerusalem.  Were Ananias and Sapphira forgiven?  Why then did they both drop dead on the same day, hours apart, when confronted with their sin?  Did God do that?  Or Satan?

 Acts 4:34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. 

 Acts 5:1 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet. 3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God." 5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6 Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him. 7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?" "Yes," she said, "that is the price." 9 Peter said to her, "How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also." 10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

Can some persons "believe" yet not be born again?  

Is it possible to loose the "new birth" of the Spirit? 

 

You are “ born again” when you Believe. It is not possible to be Unborn.

The Chastisement Of God that only His Children receive can take many forms— even Death.The fact that they were punished this severely makes the case that they were Children Of God  who had  Royally  messed up. Their instantaneous deaths were a lesson for all the other Believers—- you don’t trifle with the Holy Spirit! These two were not the only Believers to meet with an early demise.Those that made a joke out of the Communion Table were stricken with illness to the point of death.They May stand before the Lord totally ashamed of themselves, but if they were Believers, they were saved.Behavior — even Gross, extreme Misbehaving does not damn ......only Unbelief can accomplish that.

[Resurrection Priest]

The NT "Kingdom of God" - "Church", mirrors OT Israel.   Israel was "saved" from Egypt, but only three adult males who left Egypt, finally crossed into the Promised Land.  (I'm not saying all of those who died are "lost".  Just saying it is an object lesson/prophecy.) 

When Paul wrote, "thus all Israel will be saved", I don't believe he meant that every Israelite ever born (or circumcised), would be "saved".  I believe he meant, everyone still attached to "the Olive Tree" (not broken off). 

There are many examples of wicked rebellious Israelites:  Nadab and Abihu - struck dead by "fire" of God,  the 250 rebellious princes - struck dead by "fire" from the cloud,  Korah, Dathan and Abiram - swallowed into "the pit" .  .  .  They were "cut off" from Israel.  Most were simply "broken off" " for "unbelief" (See Romans Cpt 11).  

Moses called Israel "redeemed" and "called".  Yet most were "broken off". 

 Exodus 15:13 "Thou hast guided in thy righteousness this thy people whom thou hast redeemed, by thy strength thou hast called them into thy holy resting-place."
 (LXA)

Christ paid the "redemption price" FOR all of humanity, yet that did not guarantee their final "salvation" to eternal life.   Just like HE "redeemed" Israel and "called" Israel, and made them His "chosen" people, but not all of them served HIM, and most actually rebelled against HIM. 

I see a difference between "redemption" and final "salvation".  Everyone has been redeemed, because "the price" was paid.  Not everyone will receive everlasting life, because that is the "gift" especially given to those who believe and serve.  (Yes.  We mess up.  We slip and "fall".  Doesn't mean we have severed our relationship.)

To believe without serving (or even trying to serve), is rebellion.    

 

[Resurrection Priest]

On 1/18/2020 at 4:54 PM, JoeMo said:

Me neither! Although the blood of Christ DID pay the debt for all sin, that was not the main purpose of the crucifixion. Justice meets mercy at the cross.  Without it all men were without hope.  Violation of God's Law demanded a consequence.  IMHO,Jesus died to destroy the works of the devil.  God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son.  The crucifixion and death of Jesus was His ultimate demonstration of Love.  Jesus' death did not "require the Father to forgive us, it was the Godhead's physical demonstration that He already had forgiven us from the foundation of the world.

Christ paid the "redemption price" for our "debt to the Law".   I can agree with that. 

Jesus came "to destroy the works of the Devil".  Yes.  Agree with that.  

God's ultimate love letter.  Yes.  Agree with that.  

"He already had forgiven us".  In HIS heart - yes.  HE foresaw that forgiveness.  

But the human being can discard - throw away, that forgiveness.   The guy who gets out of jail, can go right back to crime.  

The human being must RESPOND to the forgiveness, for it to have any effect in the life.  Free Will means the human being can RESIST both the Spirit and the offer of forgiveness.  

Satan and his demons were created, just like human beings were created.  I believe the Father once offered forgiveness to the angels who rebelled against HIM.  [I have wondered if some actually did repent and return.]  But those beings reached a point of no return.  If such happened to rebellious created spirit beings, it can certainly happen with human beings.  The angels certainly knew that God and Christ existed.  What they didn't "believe" is that "God is love".    This has always been their lie - that God is somehow unjust and unloving (or just doesn't exist).  I personally think this is what we must "believe". 

We must believe that our God loves us, that HE has always worked for our best interest, that HE can pour HIS Spirit into us and change us to bring us into harmony with HIM.

When we respond to God's love, to HIS forgiveness, with wholehearted gratitude - that gratitude will be seen in the service subsequently rendered to God. 

I think that's the difference between love for God, and fear of God.  One serves God to avoid punishment.  The other serves God out of gratitude and love.  The one who serves out of fear, does not love.  His obedience will eventually turn to rebellion - in heart if not in actions. 

[Resurrection Priest]

1 minute ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I personally think this is what we must "believe". 

We must believe that our God loves us, that HE has always worked for our best interest, that HE can pour HIS Spirit into us and change us to bring us into harmony with HIM.

When we respond to God's love, to HIS forgiveness, with wholehearted gratitude - that gratitude will be seen in the service subsequently rendered to God. 

I think that's the difference between love for God, and fear of God.  One serves God to avoid punishment.  The other serves God out of gratitude and love.  The one who serves out of fear, does not love.  His obedience will eventually turn to rebellion - in heart if not in actions. 

This is why I believe the doctrine of annihilation is so important.  How can one totally believe that God IS love, if they believe He will prolong the lives of the "lost" for eternity in torment.  Created beings are not self-perpetuating.  Humans were not created immortal.  Only God has immortality.  He then shares HIS life, with us. 

1 Timothy 6:15 "God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen." (NIV)

No Christian today would condone burning someone alive - much less continually forever - no matter what that person had done.  Why are they fine with their God doing it?  How can they teach, "God is love", while at the same time teaching torment for eternity if you don't love HIM?  

I just do not believe our God will punish HIS enemies in that way - forever.  While they cannot have eternal life with HIS saints in HIS kingdom, HE can execute them swiftly and finally, and have an end to it.  That is not cruel.  That is merciful.  The punishment is "forever" only in the sense that it cannot be reversed forever. 

And don't tell me the wicked "deserve" everlasting torment.  No human being "deserves" everlasting torment for sins committed during 50 years, or 70 years, or even 500 years. 

 

[JoeMo]

19 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

The human being must RESPOND to the forgiveness, for it to have any effect in the life.  Free Will means the human being can RESIST both the Spirit and the offer of forgiveness.

How much of a response is "required" for salvation?  Do I have to live a perfectly sinless life? Or is 95% sinless acceptable? How about 90% or 50%?  Will there be a "quiz" before we are allowed to enter the Kingdom?  Did you worship on Sunday or Saturday?  Were you a Trinitarian?  Did you pray to Mary and the saints?  Did you trash talk about your neighbor? Did you have a few too many beers last week?

I don't expect an answer - these are rhetorical questions; but you see where I'm going? A response can be taken several ways.  If my response is supposed to be sufficient works to be saved, I can't agree with you.  If my salvation depends on my works, I am doomed.

[JoeMo]

19 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I think that's the difference between love for God, and fear of God.  One serves God to avoid punishment.  The other serves God out of gratitude and love.  The one who serves out of fear, does not love.  His obedience will eventually turn to rebellion - in heart if not in actions. 

I agree. A lot of sins are committed out of fear of satan (or God) and/or a lack of trust in God.  Not trusting God or believing that Jesus is who He said He is and did, does or will do what He said he would do is one of the biggest reasons people are lost. Another reason is people thinking they are "good enough" and don't really need a savior.

[JustPassingThru]

22 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

JustPassingThru,

I am addressing you personally, because you addressed me personally.  When you make personal comments and accusations on a public forum, telling me that I "misunderstand" something Scriptural, it makes me want to leave the discussion.  Please stop doing that.  Just state your own beliefs and views, and give reasons for those beliefs and views.  Anyone reading your views can see that you disagree with my views - that you think I have it wrong.   Thanks much. 

I thought we are all "addressing" someone personally, ...isn't that what forums are all about?

In saying you "misunderstand" I feel is much more caring and in the spirit of love that George wants from us, ...I feel it's much more loving the "you are ignorant," as the Holy Spirit says to us 21 times in the NT when He is correcting and teaching.

If and when I do state my own personal beliefs and views I always say they are my own. 

This is a Forum built and based on the Word of God, ...when I respond it's with Scripture or with the spiritual principles of/in the Word, ...NOT "my" beliefs or views, but those held sacred by the Church since it's inception on the day of Pentecost following the Holy Spirit's command:

And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.  2 Tim 2:2

I'm not alone here, ...there are many at Worthy who do the same.

We know that we can't teach, it's "only" the Holy Spirit who teaches His Church:

But the Anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His Anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him.  1 John 2:27

All we are doing is placing in black and white what the Holy Spirit has taught us from the Word, and we have learned from reading or hearing from other faithful men what He has taught them, who have heard from faithful men, ...all the way back to Pentecost, ...that's 2,000 years ago, ...from that we have learned that if what is being proposed or said is old, from the beginning, it is Truth, ..and the converse, ...if what we hear or read is new, ...not from the beginning it is Not Truth, ...but rather false teaching and doctrine that the Holy Spirit warned us about in every book of the New Testament other than Philemon. 

Our hope is, our concern for the lurkers, ...is to "teach" them to be Bereans:

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11

And to learn that still small voice in their heart "witnessing" to them they are His, ...by hearing, "Yes, yes, I said that," or, "No, No I have never said that!"

I hope you understand now...

Lord bless

[Resurrection Priest]

6 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

when I respond it's with Scripture or with the spiritual principles of/in the Word, ...NOT "my" beliefs or views, but those held sacred by the Church since it's inception on the day of Pentecost following the Holy Spirit's command:

So your views are ALWAYS correct, and the perfect interpretation of Scripture?

[Resurrection Priest]

6 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

I thought we are all "addressing" someone personally, ...isn't that what forums are all about?

In saying you "misunderstand" I feel is much more caring and in the spirit of love that George wants from us, ...I feel it's much more loving the "you are ignorant," as the Holy Spirit says to us 21 times in the NT when He is correcting and teaching.

If and when I do state my own personal beliefs and views I always say they are my own. 

This is a Forum built and based on the Word of God, ...when I respond it's with Scripture or with the spiritual principles of/in the Word, ...NOT "my" beliefs or views, but those held sacred by the Church since it's inception on the day of Pentecost following the Holy Spirit's command:

And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.  2 Tim 2:2

I'm not alone here, ...there are many at Worthy who do the same.

We know that we can't teach, it's "only" the Holy Spirit who teaches His Church:

But the Anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His Anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him.  1 John 2:27

All we are doing is placing in black and white what the Holy Spirit has taught us from the Word, and we have learned from reading or hearing from other faithful men what He has taught them, who have heard from faithful men, ...all the way back to Pentecost, ...that's 2,000 years ago, ...from that we have learned that if what is being proposed or said is old, from the beginning, it is Truth, ..and the converse, ...if what we hear or read is new, ...not from the beginning it is Not Truth, ...but rather false teaching and doctrine that the Holy Spirit warned us about in every book of the New Testament other than Philemon. 

Our hope is, our concern for the lurkers, ...is to "teach" them to be Bereans:

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11

And to learn that still small voice in their heart "witnessing" to them they are His, ...by hearing, "Yes, yes, I said that," or, "No, No I have never said that!"

I hope you understand now...

Lord bless

I understand that you feel you are here to "teach" and visitors to worthy should just ask questions and then listen to your answers. 

Does that mean you are not open to alternative views - about anything? 

[JustPassingThru]

16 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I understand that you feel you are here to "teach" and visitors to worthy should just ask questions and then listen to your answers. 

Does that mean you are not open to alternative views - about anything? 

Okay, ...that's good that you understand, ...and I appreciate your "gentile" reply's, ...however, please understand, since I'm all alone here without any like minded brothers to talk and fellowship with, ...I joined Worthy "to" have fellowship with "born again" brothers and sisters, it wasn't my intention to come just to "teach." 

Here is something else I hope you will understand, the Word clearly tells us the Holy Spirit gives gifts to His children to be used in His Church to edify, build up, perfect the saints, ...before I left my Church my pastor, assistant pastor and the elders laid hands on me, "recognizing" the call of God on my life and asking Father to bless the "gifts" the Holy Spirit had given me and to bless the "work" He would "perform" through me. 

Please, please understand I am NOT saying this to foolishly brag, ...nor do I think I have any "power" in and of "myself" to do anything for God, ...I'm just a "tool" in His "tool belt," that He chooses when and how to use.

After saying that I hope you will also understand that also before I left the States Father poured out His Agape love in my heart for the Tahitian people, ...it was so strong in me I knew I would never return to my Church or the States, ...that decision was made in my heart the moment after He told me to come here and poured out His love in me, ...10 months before He provided everything I need to come here.

So please understand His Agape love in me is not "limited" to just the Tahitians, ...it goes out to all who Father might "bring" into my life, ...even those here at Worthy, so when I see false teaching or doctrine that has "not" been passed down from faithful men to faithful men through out the generations since Pentecost, ...that the Holy Spirit has taught His Church, ...it's my obligation to speak out, ...there is a spiritual principle of if we don't use the gift(s) the Holy Spirit has given us "we" become dry and the Holy Spirit is "grieved."

So to answer your questions, ...no, I do not think visitors here at Worthy "should just ask questions and then listen to my answers,"  ...I'm a nobody and don't look for, desire or deserve any "recognition",  the least of all of the saints, ...but what I do is what I have been "taught" to do by faithful men of God and explain with Scripture what the Holy Spirit is teaching in His Church and it's the "visitors" responsibility to "search the Scriptures" to see if the Holy Spirit speaks to their heart in conformation, ...that dear one, is "how" the gift of teaching works. 1 john 2:27

Am I open to any "alternative" views about anything, ...no beloved, ...are you "open" to the "view" Jesus is not God?

That is our "foundation" 1 Cor 3:11 and it is "foolishness" to try and build a different "foundation," ...because the "other" views, opinions are "different" foundations, ...in actuality the the "different" views and opinions "foundations," ...are themselves.

Please, take the time to meditate on this and ask the Holy Spirit if you are trying to build another foundation, ...I'm not "accusing" or "attacking" you, ...but in brotherly love I want you to be blessed at the Bema Seat of Christ with many rewards for your work here on this planet.

Lord bless