Two Groups of People

[Alive]

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

These two verses parallel the 'Cross' exactly. Notice it is past tense. Predestined---> called--->justified---->glorified.

We who are born again, are safe 'In Christ' 

It is a matter of history and it is 'the mystery'. This is what Paul so energetically taught.

1Cor. 2:2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

2Cor. 1:22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

This is the constant theme that Paul teaches and this by Grace. The Cross. The work of the Father for us 'In Christ'.

Rom. 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Eph. 2:4   But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

The Cross of Christ is God's final and complete solution. Perfect in its conception and perfect in its adequacy. The Creator of the universe did not fail you and will 'keep' you. A Gift of Eternal Life that cannot be quenched...for God cannot deny Himself.

This is the Gospel.

[Heleadethme]

48 minutes ago, Alive said:

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

These two verses parallel the 'Cross' exactly. Notice it is past tense. Predestined---> called--->justified---->glorified.

We who are born again, are safe 'In Christ' 

It is a matter of history and it is 'the mystery'. This is what Paul so energetically taught.

1Cor. 2:2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

2Cor. 1:22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

This is the constant theme that Paul teaches and this by Grace. The Cross. The work of the Father for us 'In Christ'.

Rom. 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Eph. 2:4   But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

The Cross of Christ is God's final and complete solution. Perfect in its conception and perfect in its adequacy. The Creator of the universe did not fail you and will 'keep' you. A Gift of Eternal Life that cannot be quenched...for God cannot deny Himself.

This is the Gospel.

Yes, they are beautiful promises and assurances......and we need to remain in it.  He is able to keep those who are in Christ and remain in Him.  The Spirit can indeed be quenched and it is even possible that He would write "ichabod" on the door.  God has foreknown who will remain and who will fall away.  Many are called, few are chosen.  Goodness....the whole church is falling away (except for a remnant) in these last days as was foreknown by God and prophesied to happen....just as it happened to our ensample.

We are in a real war and there can be real casualties....time to grow up and put childish fables away and face reality.  Children don't know anything about dangers, but we need to mature....Jesus is coming soon for a grown-up Bride.

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Heleadethme

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Yes, they are beautiful promises and assurances.......if we remain in it.  He is able to keep those who are in Christ and remain in Him.  The Spirit can indeed be quenched and it is even possible that He would write "ichabod" on the door.  God has foreknown who will remain and who will fall away.  Many are called, few are chosen.  Goodness....the whole church is falling away (except for a remnant) in these last days as was foreknown by God and prophesied to happen....just as it happened to our ensample.

We are in a real war and there can be real casualties....time to grow up and put childish fables away and face reality.  Children don't know anything about dangers, but we need to mature....Jesus is coming soon for a grown-up Bride.

 

A great promise--but "oh that Ishmael might live".

Yes there is a falling away from the 'Truth'. A total reliance on Christ and the power of the New Creation. The total work of the cross. Not just a part of it.

Many simply don't understand, because lies have been and continue to be taught.

[Alive]

This is what the apostles were battling against in the early years and later. Study this section of Acts and hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church. It is the very same principle.

To move off of a footing of nothing but Grace and the Law of Life to works and the Law of Death.

Acts 13:36   “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; ³⁷ but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. ³⁸ Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; ³⁹ and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. ⁴⁰ Beware therefore, lest what has been spoken in the prophets come upon you:

⁴¹ “Behold, you despisers,

Marvel and perish!

For I work a work in your days,

A work which you will by no means believe,

Though one were to declare it to you.’ ”

Acts 13:48   Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

⁸ So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, ⁹ and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. ¹⁰ Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? ¹¹ But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

 

Acts 15:23   They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. ²⁴ Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— ²⁵ it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, ²⁶ men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. ²⁷ We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. ²⁸ For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: ²⁹ that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Alive

[JustPassingThru]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

I've met some people on the internet who have a testimony of being born again, and they believed, and then later fell away....and they are the worst enemies of the cross now.....incredibly hostile and nasty to the gospel and to believers.  No one can tell me it isn't possible to fall away.  I have seen it happen to people I know personally as well...they simply don't believe any more, at all, dead as a doorknob, lights are out and nobody is home...and went back to just living like the world without Christ.  I don't think there is a more discouraging sight.

Dear sister, ...here's the problem with what you are saying, ...no one, ...not you, not me, not anyone can judge the condition of someone's heart, and no one can see or evaluate the spiritual condition in/of another person's life, ...GOD is the only ONE who can do that, ...I agree with you, ...and I've been fool/deceived thinking this person is "saved" and then some time later the go back to their old ways.

So beloved, those that you have seen, I have seen and probably many here at Worthy have seen also, that started to "walk" the Christian walk, ...and then turned away, fell away, left God, ...were never born again, ...Jesus Himself taught us that in the Parable of the Soils with the seed that fell on the stony places that fell away when tribulation came into their lives, why..., because He said they did not have any Root, ...then to corroborate Himself with having "two" wittiness for us to know the Truth, He taught us there will be many who will come to Him and say, "But, but Lord, we did this and we did that," ....what was/is His response, "Depart from Me I NEVER knew you!"

The "key" here being the word "NEVER," ...He did not say, "I knew you once, ...but now I don't!" I think you will agree these people were never born again.

Unfortunately this is very close to me and around me every where I go, many, multitudes, who tell me they are "born again" because of some ritual, or act they have performed, ...but God said:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.  John 1:13

These people I'm talking about say they are born again because their parents are/were (blood), or, ...I have done this or I have done that (flesh), ...or I'm born again because my pastor/priest has dunked me in water or sprinkled water in my face when I was a baby (man), ...and NEVER say, ...by the Regeneration of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God 1 Pet 1:23 ...as the Word teaches us.

Lord bless

[JustPassingThru]

2 hours ago, Margo1945 said:

I truly believe:

1. believe in our Lord and Saviour and I do

2. love our Lord and Saviour and I do

3. as said in John 14:15,21,23-24, I shall obey Christ's two great commandments that He commanded those who love Him to obey and in 2. I said I loved Him

4. when I fail to obey and I do from time to time, I shall repent aka turn back to God with a changed heart to doing HIS Will, not mine and in doing so I shall confess/acknowledge my sinfulness to Him and ask His forgiveness as such is not automatic and I shall be forgiven, my sin forgotten, and no punishment given because Christ paid the "punishment" .. thank You, Lord Jesus 

Morning Margo,

Just to let you know, I've found another dead horse...,  

...and please understand, I'm not "attacking" you, what I'm doing is using the "listening" skills I've been taught and repeating back to you what you have said and then in the spirit of discussion asking you to "consider" what I'm hearing you saying.

 One and two above, ...do you really, ...yes I believe you do, ...however, in doing so, ...are you "breaking" this Commandment?

You shall have no other gods before Me.  Exo 20:3

What we have been reading for 17 months now is; I, I, I, me, me, me, I do this and me do this, it's all about what "you" do, ...beloved, ...just look at your first 3 sentences...

What we are saying, what we have been trying to show you, pleading with you to see, ...it's NOT us doing it, ...it's God the Holy Spirit living inside of us that is responsible for us, ..."doing" it from inside of us, ...me, we, ...are ALL "sinners" saved by Grace.

Number 3, again you say "you" obey God's two great Commandments, John 14: 15, 21, 23-24, ...but you disregard/leave out verses 16-20 that specifically talk about the  Holy Spirit coming to live inside of us, ...again, are you relying on your own will power to keep the two Commandments. 

Number 4, "when I fail to obey," again is it your own perception, ...what we don't see/hear you saying is, "when the Holy Spirit convicts me of my sin," ..may I humbly ask in the love of Christ, "What does the Holy Spirit "do," ...how is He "actively" working in your walk with Him?"

You say you sin from time to time, ...are you saying you are breaking the two greatest Commandments, ...sin of commission?

What about sins of "omission," ...are you faithfully doing all of the good you see that needs to be done, ...are you actively correcting all of the wrong, the injustice you observe around you on a daily, hourly basis? 

Please "think" about it, ...I believe you love the Lord and I believe you would like to serve Him from/with you heart, but what I'm saying is how we see you coming across to us, ...it's ALL you and not the Holy Spirit, ...truthfully, consider this, what do you have to lose if "you" stop trying/doing "it," and may I suggest you take Jesus' advice:

Come to Me all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.  Take My yoke on you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you shall find rest to your souls.  For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light. Matt 11:28-30

...and let the Holy Spirit rule, reign and guide your life...

Lord bless

[Coliseum]

  2 hours ago, @Heleadethme said:

I've met some people on the internet who have a testimony of being born again, and they believed, and then later fell away....and they are the worst enemies of the cross now.....incredibly hostile and nasty to the gospel and to believers.  No one can tell me it isn't possible to fall away.  I have seen it happen to people I know personally as well...they simply don't believe any more, at all, dead as a doorknob, lights are out and nobody is home...and went back to just living like the world without Christ.  I don't think there is a more discouraging sight.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As well, there are others who claim to be born again, fell away for many, many years, and were brought back into the Fold. They were truly saved but temporarily fell away. There are sheep and goats, mixed together we dare not try to separate. It is why we never give up praying for those God has burdened us with because we do not know the true state of their heart---especially on the Internet where our relationship is at a distance on many levels. 

I saw the shock of my life attending a church where the pastor of forty years said, paraphrasing: "All of you have known me since I have been your Pastor. You have loved me all these years, and I have tried doing right by all of you. Some have come with me, visiting and praying for the sick, when I went to the prisons and read the Word to the prisoners. You have seen the children I have adopted that came from terribly broken homes. We have been together through thick and thin---but tonight, I stand here and tell you, tearfully and gratefully, that 'I am saved'." I about fell out of my seat. We just do not know.

Jude 1:22-23 (NIV)
²²  Be merciful to those who doubt;
²³  snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear--hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh. 

Every person created is potentially saved. All the angels stop and rejoice when one is. It is so incredible that even they---the angels---knew that their messages were for us, not them---that they longed "to look into these things." 

Richard Wurmbrand, tortured for Christ for 14 years, when he was released, cried when even a single person he passed by on the street would not receive Christ when he told them. We hardly know and understand the gift God has given us. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Coliseum

[JustPassingThru]

20 minutes ago, DustyRoad said:

I certainly didn't know Jesus Christ. All I had was some knowledge in my head but that knowledge doesn't save anyone... the Son of God does.

Yep!!! Been there, ...done that!

In my first church, for some unknown reason to me,  the pastor made me their "golden boy," ...I was put in charge of the youth, like a youth "pastor" without the title, ...taught an Adult Bible Study, ...helped out wherever necessary in Sunday School, ...organized and cooked for the Saturday Morning Men's Breakfast and Work day, ...played piano in the worship Band, ...and, and, ...they were going to send me to Bible College to "make" me a pastor, ...surprise, surprise, ...after all of that I "became" born again, ...that means all I had done before was just in the "flesh," ...it's what we call a "false" conversion.

After that I was so embarrassed, ...but even more, ...angry at the pastor for encouraging me and placing me in "charge" of all of that, ...I prayed and asked Father to put me in the church He had for me, and He moved me out of the Central Coast of California 500 miles away into Nevada where they welcomed me, and I heard for the first time in years about Grace and the Word taught Book by Book, Chapter by Chapter, and Verse by Verse,...I started to "grow" in the Grace and Knowledge of my Lord Jesus Christ.

Dear brother, ...I've heard you talk about your emotional problems, ...may I encourage you with this, ...you are a born again child of God, ...a new creation in Christ and I "sense" in you the faith to understand and believe what I'm going to say, ...you have two persons living "inside" of you, ...the old "Adamic" man, fashioned in the resemblance and likeness of him, ...and the new creation, the new man who's predetermined destiny is to be "conformed into the image of Jesus Christ.

You say you are autistic, yes, ...but that's the old man, you say you suffer from depression and PTSD, ...am I correct to assume you have served in a war zone, ...and to survive there we have to consider ourselves already dead to continue on with our duty(?), ...please listen dear brother, all of that is a part of the "old" man, ...the "real" you, ...the "present" reality for you is you "are" a new creation in Christ, ...that is your "reality," ...that is my "reality" and that is "reality" for ALL of God's children, ...so may I humbly suggest you call on that "willpower" that kept you alive when you had to consider yourself dead and with the "power" of the Holy Spirit, ...have a funeral for the "old" man, ...take some time and in the presence and safety of the Holy Spirit (tell Him what you are going to do), ...write down all of the thoughts from the past that trouble you in a book, ...all of them, ...then have a funeral, take the book and burn it, watch it until it's just ashes (with the Holy Spirit as your witness), ...this is what we call a "point" of contact for our faith (like the lady that needed to touch the hem of Jesus' robe and others we read about), then verbaly  relinquish all authority of/in your life to the Holy Spirit (I do this every morning in my prayers) and live in the "reality" of, ...you were crucified with Christ 2,000 years ago, you, that is, the old Adam is dead and now the life you live is Christ, is vitally alive with resurrection power, "in" you!

Yes, the enemy will come and try to plant the old ideas and terrors in your mind, ...but you have "your" point of contact, you, ...and the Holy Spirit "witnessed" your funeral, ...when the attack comes, just say, "That old man is dead, ...I'm now a new creation in Christ!" and at the same time as you are saying that the Holy Spirit, your witness, ...your "Advocate" (Lawyer) will do His job of defending you, ...and according to the New Covenant He will flash a verse on the flat screen in your mind to use to defeat the enemy.  

Try it brother, I know from my own personal experience, ...it works, ...it's how Father "works in our lives, ...many of us have witness horrific things that no human should ever have to see, ...been forced, through coercion, to do things that have gone against our conscience, ...but brother, ...my advice is to run to the open arms of our God, Jehovah Rapha, ..the God who Heals, ...I think you will be surprised what He will do, ...I certainly was/am!

Lord bless   

[JustPassingThru]

NO, ...I'm not going to do it, ...I'm not going to drag in another dead horse.....

Be blessed Margo, guess we'll have to wait and see how it turns out for both of us in front of Jesus.

Lord bless

[JustPassingThru]

4 minutes ago, DustyRoad said:

There's no "cure" for autism to be had in this world of men,

I know brother, but I've met many "autistic" people, even some in my wife's family, and you ability to communicate, express yourself, to understand complex theory, is far, far above any I have ever met (I'm not putting them down), ...and that's good you have never faced the horrors of war. Praise God!

What I'm suggesting is to "see" what God will do with the new man, even though he is still living in a decrepit and dying shell.

I'm old, will be 71 in a few days, but every morning I pray for the Holy Spirit to "be" (not give me") my strength, this old body has been well used and abused, it's work every morning just to "git" out of bed, ...but after my prayer, breakfast and going to work,  He will remind me around 10:00-11:00, "look how you are running around in the shop, carrying lumber, not even breathing heavy, ...like you are 30, 40 years old!

What I'm trying to say is, ...don't set any limits on what Father can do through you with and by the power of the Holy Spirit working through you, ...it ain't you, it ain't me, ...it's Him, ...take a close look at the body you are living in, step outside and look at what He has created, look into the night sky and consider the power, the force, the intelligence necessary to create of of this and keep it in perfect balance and harmony, ...that very same God is THE God that is "living" inside of you bro...

Lord bless