Do 7 heads of Daniel 7 equal 7 heads in Revelation?

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

What the disciples of JESUS have learned since the beginning of the Church, as believers in the Word of God - the Word is God and is the Truth - it is appointed unto men that they shall once die, and after that comes the Judgment, as follow:

Hebrews 9:v.27CJB - Just as human beings have to die once, but after this comes judgment, 

Hebrews 9:v.27CEB - People are destined to die once and then face judgment.

Hebrews 9:v.27-1599Geneva Bible(GNV)-27 And as it is appointed unto men that they shall once die, and after that cometh the judgment: 

Hebrews 9:v.27KJV -  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:  

 

There are exceptions: what about Lazarus?

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Bible_Gazer said:

So is the beast from the pit is spiritual ?

The beast from the sea and earth is not spiritual right ?

The Red Dragon Satan(not called a beast by Revealtion) is from heaven, an Angelical being, he wouldn't be spiritual since he has a body right ?

I don't think that there is a scripture to show that Satan can go back and forth in some fiery hellish place. Why would he.

So do you think Satan is in the bottomless pit now or ever has been ? 

Seem to me you think there is another world in the earth, that is free to come and go ? correct me on this if I am wrong

As far as some that believe in a hell, those being are locked up in that place, if there is really anybody there before the judgment.

 

Satan may have a spiritual body like an angel, but we cannot see spiritual bodies. No demon has a body. They are spirits. 

Satan can go from hell to the heavens. I don't know where he spends most of his time. But the day is coming when he will lose his wings and will be confined to earth.

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

What the disciples of JESUS have learned since the beginning of the Church, as believers in the Word of God - the Word is God and is the Truth - it is appointed unto men that they shall once die, and after that comes the Judgment, as follow:

Hebrews 9:v.27CJB - Just as human beings have to die once, but after this comes judgment, 

Hebrews 9:v.27CEB - People are destined to die once and then face judgment.

Hebrews 9:v.27-1599Geneva Bible(GNV)-27 And as it is appointed unto men that they shall once die, and after that cometh the judgment: 

Hebrews 9:v.27KJV -  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:  

 

And remember Oseas, those in the Body of Christ are `saved.` Saved from what? Saved from judgment.

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Oh, I did know that you would talk about Lazarus.  Lazarus was buried, for he had been dead four days, his sister Martha said to JESUS that by this time the body of her brother did stink.

Now, now, we can not compare the glorious resurrection of Lázarus made by JESUS my LORD, and who I must glorify here, with the story you have posted, in fact a cunningly devised fable. I remember also a girl of 12 years old that was resurrected by JESUS, (Mark 5:v.41-43). And Peter the Apostle kneeled down and prayed, and said to Tabita that was died: Tabitha, arise.  She was resurrected and opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up. We have other marvellous biblical examples of resurrection by the Power of God in the Old Testament. What prevails is the Word of God.   
 

So it seems you are admitting that there are exceptions to dying ONCE and after that the judgment. Good. Prayer is very powerful.

Edited January 29, 2020 by iamlamad

[Marilyn C]

23 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Oh please, Marilyn, you need to think more deeply carefully here. You should already knew that no one is free of God's Judgment, but anyone. By the way, remember of that the Judgment will be given to the saints of the most High. The time has arrived that the saints will possess the kingdom as is written in Daniel 7: v.22
v.26 - 26 But the Judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.  
v.27 - And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Judging what you have said expressly, I ask unto you: Have you never read 1Peter 4:v.17-18?

Let's do a Sunday School service here
v.17 - The time is come that Judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it FIRST begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 2Thes.1:v.7-9 show us what is the end of them that obey not the gospel of God:  "the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven..., In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the Glory of His power; 

2Corinthians 5:v.10 - We must ALL appear before the Judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1Peter 4:v.18 - And if the righteous scarcely be saved (after be Judged and not condemned), where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 

JESUS said: John 16:v.7-8 & 11
7 - Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 - And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
11 -  Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Romans 2:v.5-16
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Daniel 12:1-3
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

James 2:v.12-13 
- 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
- 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against Judgment.

May our God bless, and keep us, and gives us His protection

Hi Oseas,

Lots of good scriptures there, so let`s look at them. Just because they all say `judgment` in English, we need to see `Who is it is speaking to?` Does it relate to us? Is there a difference in the meaning of the Hebrew or Greek word?

1. Who is it speaking to.

We see that the OT scriptures are speaking to Israel & the nations. Remember that the Body of Christ revelation was NOT given till Paul.

 Written to Israel. Dan. 7: 27 -22, 26 & 27  and Dan. 12: 1 - 3, are written to Israel.

Written about the Nations of the World. John 16: 7 & 8, 11. This is written to the unbelievers in the World, `...He will convict the world of sin and of righteousness an of judgment.`  2 Thess. 1: 7 - 9 is written about the ungodly, (at the time of Christ`s return) who will be judged and have everlasting punishment.

Written to the Body of Christ.  James 2: 12 - 13,  1 Peter 4: 17 & 18, Rom. 2: 15 & 16,  2 Thess. 1: 7 - 9.  2 Cor. 5: 10.

 

2. Is there a difference in the meaning? Yes.

James 2 12 - 13, is talking about those who do not show mercy, then they will be judged accordingly.

1 Peter 4: 17 & 18, is referring to the Lord `trying` the hearts of believers through their sufferings. It is not a decision for hell.

Rom. 2: 15 & 16 and 2 Cor 5: 10.  The `seat` here is the `bema` seat, a judgment seat with the meaning of an official tribunal where those assembled will receive their just reward. These rewards are for those things that are done in the anointing and guidance of the Holy Spirit and not for self aggrandisement. The former will inherit indestructible worth likened to `gold, silver and precious stones,`, while the latter`s efforts will be consumed by the penetrating fire of the Lord, as would `wood, hay and stubble.`  See 1 Cor. 9 - 15.

 

Remember that we need to look at how individual scriptures fit into the whole of God`s word and not just collect scriptures with the same English word. We need to look at the whole of God`s word.

regards, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

 

The four kingdoms that were showed to Daniel in both chapters 2 and 7 were:  1.Babylon, 2.medo-Persa, 3.Greece, and 4. Rome. 

 

Hi Oseas,

It seems you have thought that the 5 World Powers of Dan. 2 are mentioned again in Dan. 7. This is NOT right. The 4 kingdoms of Dan. 7 are contemporary to each other as the fourth kingdom treads down the others, Thus they need to be at the same time. Also note that when the fourth kingdom gets judged, then the 3 other kingdoms are allowed to go on for a while, but without their power and authority.

`I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. As to the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.`(Dan. 7: 11 & 12) 

Dan. 2 reveals the 5 Gentile World Rulers. Dan. 7 reveals the 4 Federations leading up to the final Gentile Global Government.

We do agree however that the 5th World Ruler, (the 10 toes) are the same as the 4th beastly power in Dan. 7, (10 horns).

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

You need to think a bit more carefully here. In according Scriptures, you are referring to the Beast that rose up out of the sea(sea= waters=peoples, and nations, and multitudes, and tongues - in fact, Gentile peoples - Revelation 17:v.15) having (7) seven heads and (10) ten horns, and upon his (10) horns (10) ten crowns, and upon his (7)heads the NAME of blasphemy.  Revelation 13:v.1-10 - Check it up.
 

You need to think a bit more carefully here. In according Scriptures, you are referring to another Beast which will come up out of the earth, and he has two horns like a lamb but speaks as a Dragon(he represents two kingdoms; he is a false lamb, in fact a false messiah, AN IMPOSTER), and he exercises all the power of the FIRST Beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST Beast (the Beast of sea), whose deadly wound was healed.   And he will make great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the Beast (the Beast of sea); And causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might BUY or SELL, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the Beast - THE BEAST LIKE A LAMB, a false lamb, a false messiah, the esoteric/kabbalistic, and spiritist and RUTHLESS false messiah, a former Cherub, the son of perdition, the man of sin) : for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.   The 666  -  Revelation 13:v.11-18  -  Check it up

Hi Oseas,

No I was referring to the other beast who made people worship the A/C. So we agree there.

[Marilyn C]

17 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

This is the reason by which I have mentioned both chapters 2 and 7. Note that the chapter 2 reveals from the FIRST to the FIFTH kingdom with much more DETAILS than the chapter 7. Furthermore, Daniel 2 reveals also how will be established the Kingdom of God in this current time, and JESUS also revealed this conquer of God's people in Revelation 11:v.15 among others. Check it out. 

Dear Marilyn, what are the FIRST four kingdoms revealed in Daniel 2?   
1 - The first is the kingdom of Babylon - Daniel 2:v.38
2 - The second is the kingdom of Medo-Persia-Dan.5:30-31&10:1
3 - The third is the kingdom of Greece  - Dan.10:v.20
4 - The fourth kingdom is the Roman Empire, although Rome be not cited. Why? I think that Prov. 25:v.2 give us the an explanation why not.   

Oh, dear sister, if these 4 kingdoms are contemporary for you, tell us, please, which are the names of them, and if possible the verse of Scriptures that gives support for your assertion.  

It seems you have not the same vision of Daniel. He said: verse 16 - I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

May the Lord God bless us, and keep us, and give us His protection

Amen

 

Hi Oseas,

We agree on the first 4 World Rulers of Dan. 2, and note that Luke 2:1 tells us of the Roman Empire.

The 4 beasts of Dan. 7 are contemporary for the reasons I gave -

- the last one treads down the others, thus they are at the same time,

- the first 3 get to go on into the millennium while the 4th beastly kingdom is dealt with.

 

As to who they are contemporarily. Perhaps you may be able to think with these clues. These are great kingdom/Federations of our times.

1. Emblem of a Lion, meaning a monarch.  Wings, meaning imperial expansion. So an empire with a monarch. Wings broken off, showing it lost its capacity for imperial expansion.

Emblem of an eagle, coming from the lion. This Federation came from the empire and then became its own separate nation with an eagle as its emblem.  

 

2. The Emblem of a Bear. This is not the friendly, cute bear this nation tries to present, but is a ferocious bear.

 

 

3. The emblem of a Leopard.  This emblem was used on their shields in battle.

 

Note these 3 great Federations came up in that order, one at a time and are Great Federations easily recognised by their emblems today.

[Marilyn C]

18 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Marilyn, you should mentioned the verse that gives support to your assertions.

Hi Oseas,

I did give you my supporting scripture.

 Quote - `Also note that when the fourth kingdom gets judged, then the 3 other kingdoms are allowed to go on for a while, but without their power and authority.

`I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. As to the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.`(Dan. 7: 11 & 12) `

 

[Marilyn C]

18 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

. In fact they were plucked up by the roots exactly when there came up among the 10 horns another little horn(Dan.7: v.8), and, behold, in this little horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things (verse 8). The same horn will make war with the saints, and will prevail against them. Daniel 7:v.21 
By the way, this DETAIL is very very hard to interpret, but it is very important in the prophetic context. 

In my post above I asked:
1 - Who are these 10 kings?
2 - Who is the little horn? Who is this Man? 

 

Hi Oseas,

It is not hard when we look at God`s word. God calls the `little horn,` the Assyrian. That is the area of Iraq, Syria & Jordan. Ever wondered why that area has come back into focus after centuries of obscurity. It has come right on schedule for God`s `appointed time.`

Thus these 3 nations will be `plucked up by the roots.` Their `roots` are from WW1 when Britain and France divided them up. Thus they will get rid of those `roots` and come under the Peace Negotiator who will confirm Israel`s Peace Covenant after the Russian war.

As this `Assyrian`s ` leadership & influence grows then another 7 nations of the Middle east will come under his power. These 7 nations are already a group. (GCC the Gulf Cooperation Council).

So there you see it unfolding right in front of our eyes - the 10 kings of Islam and the `little horn` who I believe is `Ali Hatem,` the Prince of the Dulamin tribe of the Anbar region which includes the city of Babylon, (which is getting rebuilt).

Marilyn.