Watch It All Burn Down?

[other one]

6 hours ago, Equippers said:

you must live in a small town, not a major city.

about 30,000 in the town and surrounding area...    But our church is 107 years old and being a Nazarene church has some legalism in our past history that makes it difficult for people to want to come by and check us out.

[Equippers]

On 2/25/2020 at 7:05 AM, other one said:

about 30,000 in the town and surrounding area...    But our church is 107 years old and being a Nazarene church has some legalism in our past history that makes it difficult for people to want to come by and check us out.

so do you think your church will eventually die out?

[other one]

8 minutes ago, Equippers said:

so do you think your church will eventually die out?

yes and it saddens me to tears.....   it's not like our town is turning heathen, they just don't want to change churches.    very few people that I interface with don't go to church.  We have one hope and that is the Homosexual input on other churches.     The Methodists are going through votes concerning acceptance of homosexuality within their administration and how they handle the views of it and I think it will split their church....   We could pick up a few people from that.

Also there is a lady that is promoting Islam across several of our churches and local organizations with a movie  twisting history and scripture around saying Islam's Allah and our God of Abraham, and Jacob is the same entity....   the pastors of two of our churches have accepted that as OK and several of my YMCA friends accepted it also....  That could separate some people from their church and they might come over to our worship services and keep us alive.

I don't know how it is going to work out.   We pray about it a lot.

[Equippers]

2 minutes ago, other one said:

yes and it saddens me to tears.....   it's not like our town is turning heathen, they just don't want to change churches.    very few people that I interface with don't go to church.  We have one hope and that is the Homosexual input on other churches.     The Methodists are going through votes concerning acceptance of homosexuality within their administration and how they handle the views of it and I think it will split their church....   We could pick up a few people from that.

Also there is a lady that is promoting Islam across several of our churches and local organizations with a movie  twisting history and scripture around saying Islam's Allah and our God of Abraham, and Jacob is the same entity....   the pastors of two of our churches have accepted that as OK and several of my YMCA friends accepted it also....  That could separate some people from their church and they might come over to our worship services and keep us alive.

I don't know how it is going to work out.   We pray about it a lot.

sorry to hear this.

just regarding your homosexual comment

i think obviously unrepentant gays can not taken on most positions in the church, especially teaching and i would argue worship as you need someone who worship the Lord with their heart and in purity.

though what do you mean by administration though? do you mean like church secretary or management within the church?

 

[Heleadethme]

On 2/18/2020 at 2:13 AM, copenhagen said:

The church I'm currently attending has the best lead pastor in the local area by far. I've driven out as far as 45 minutes out btw. I don't know what your standards are but the vast majority of pastors I've encountered are not intelligent and are not good public speakers. Many are spouting incoherent gibberish. I've visited just about every church with a significant membership and quite a few of the smaller ones as well locally. I've been around the block, so to speak. 

 

What sucks is that the quality of even this best in town pastor's sermons has dropped off considerably. They used to be very focused, the message clear and even a bit entertaining. Now, he's becoming like the rest, with sermons becoming unfocused and dull. I don't know what happened to him, it's all so sudden. At a certain point you just run out of things to say. 

You need to flee it brother......go to Jesus outside the camp.....flee to take hold of Him.  We're at the end of the church age, just as it was the end of the old covenant age when the Holy Spirit departed the Temple and the Lord had it destroyed in 70 AD.  Yes, His Spirit is departing the house and not one stone will be left on another.....we need to seek Him and wait upon Him outside the camp otherwise we'll get caught up in its destruction.  And no, we must not stand and watch it burn or we'll turn into a pillar of salt like Lot's wife.  This is a time for the bride to be preparing for His return....it's not business as usual any more.  Those who were invited to the feast would not come, so the Lord is going to turn His attention to the lost now, and I believe many Jews will come into the kingdom as unnatural branches are being broken off to make room for them.  The Lord may use different scriptures to speak to different individuals, so ask Him, but these are just some of how He has spoken to me about what is happening with His church in these days.

People equate Christianity with "church-going" but Jesus came to show us a new and living Way.   We need to be forgetting what lies behind and be reaching for what lies ahead.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Heleadethme

[other one]

29 minutes ago, Equippers said:

sorry to hear this.

just regarding your homosexual comment

i think obviously unrepentant gays can not taken on most positions in the church, especially teaching and i would argue worship as you need someone who worship the Lord with their heart and in purity.

though what do you mean by administration though? do you mean like church secretary or management within the church?

 

Yes, those people who would be in a position to teach or show others that the lifestyle is acceptable to God who have any authority in the individual church. I would have to ponder the secretary position.  IN scripture it clearly isn't.   And it should be the position of the church that it isn't OK with God.         

Should we not accept them at all...    no that isn't what I mean, we are all sinners in our own ways.    In my personal opinion Homosexuals and adulterers are basically in the same boat.   and technically liars and thieves about the same.     We shouldn't have those kind of people within the authority of the church organization either.

But the main problem is the acceptance of the lifestyle being OK.   it's my understanding from scripture that gay people will not be allowed into heaven and for us to tell someone it's ok to be gay is much like us helping them go to hell...     does not set well with me.

but do we discriminate against them ...    no we shouldn't any more than you would against a murderer or adulterer.

Should we have someone as a sectary who openly sleeps around with anyone who is willing????

[Equippers]

1 hour ago, other one said:

 

Should we have someone as a sectary who openly sleeps around with anyone who is willing????

well, i don't agree with this analogy, because the definition of adultery is anyone who engages in sex outside marriage.

so someone who sleeps around is considered an adulterer, so is someone who is in a committed defacto relationship but who are not married.

for me, the position of secretary is not a position of authority of any kind, i would not have problem with a gay person or a straight non Christian occupy it.

 

[other one]

Thank goodness here in the USA we all have our own opinions....    I don't think that will be the case in the new Jerusalem.

[-Pv-]

"The hipster pastor is ok, there's not much to recommend him, but there's little to criticize except for the juvenile, naive new age ideas which he espouses from time to time. Again, no one really cares enough or knows enough to correct him. "

Suggestion:

Make sermon notes while he is speaking and going home, find precise scriptures which address your concerns PRIVATELY and do that regularly.  If he is a spiritual man, he will meditate on the Godly instruction and inspect himself.  It's VERY IMPORTANT you do not boast or publicly acknowledge so as to place him on the defensive.  If this effort fails over time...

Vote with your feet.  I understand finding another congregation you can row in sync with is difficult, but so are steps of faith.  I know a man who put his whole family in a car and drove completely across the US until God told him to stop.  He ended up at my church 26 years ago after driving from the East coast to the West coast and getting a job here while renting an apartment.

There are two ways to solve your dilemma:  Become so filled with God's purpose for your life you become an attractive light persuading others to seek God more closely while still remaining in your church.

The other is to leave in a step of faith asking God to direct your steps.  You will find yourself in a place where others have made the same journey.

Lastly, sewing discord in a church is strongly condemned by scripture even if the church is a marginally or majorly failing one.  No church is stronger than the weakest member.

Exodus 23:1: You shall not spread a false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man to be a malicious witness."

Proverbs 6:16-19 "There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers."

I Peter 2:15: "For  such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men."

James 4:11: "Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. "

2nd Corithians 12:20: "For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder. "

James 1:26: "Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless."

1 Peter 4:15,16 "Make sure that none of you suffers as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or a  troublesome meddler; but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name."

"Watch It All Burn Down?"

Matthew 3:10 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.   His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

If you are indeed watching your church burn down, you are watching God at work so should REJOICE unless you are carrying the torch.

Meditate on these things as ask God for a path which you can walk in strength and confidence.

-Pv-

Edited February 26, 2020 by -Pv-

[copenhagen]

Great suggestions pv. The reality is however that the pastor is boring and sitting through a sermon is becoming more and more difficult. It's edging from boredom to irritation and frustration. I'm being pushed out, guided out, led out, forced out, it doesn't really matter. I like the pastry and coffee, but I could go anywhere for that and anywhere else I could leave whenever I wanted and not feel guilty about it.