copenhagen Posted February 17, 2020 Group: Seeker Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 78 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/14/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2020 My level of cynicism is at an all-time high. My faith in God isn't shaken. However, I look at the church and see a ridiculous clown show. I have chosen the best church in the local area and supported it faithfully. It's very obvious that the church is corrupt. What's happening is that the big donors run everything. The church relies on them for financing basic daily operations, but also pushes hard to fund new jobs, the latest for the wife of the pastor. In return, the top funders determine the direction of the church, and receive perks such as volunteer teaching positions within the church, which apparently is a huge ego boost for the volunteer instructors. Meanwhile the flock really is that: unthinking sheep who would walk off a cliff with smiles on their faces if they were told to do so. They're not "dumb" per se, but they don't like to think. They prefer to have the media and the pastor and all of the hifalootin' types do the "thinking" for them. They just believe. There are lots of kids at church, they like having friends to play with for an hour or two on Sunday morning and maybe once during the week as well. The thing that bothers me the most is that the church refuses to say ANYTHING of substance with the overwhelming problems facing us today: lgbtq+ insanity, the overwhelming numbers of illegal aliens, the opioid epidemic, etc. The world is burning to the ground, and the christians are smiling like idiots covering their eyes and ears. This is clown world and my only way of coping is to laugh at it all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BeauJangles Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.92 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 28 minutes ago, copenhagen said: I look at the church and see a ridiculous clown show. If your church is a circus, why not try attending a symphony of true godliness instead? 1 2 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LadyKay Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 385 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 7,692 Content Per Day: 1.92 Reputation: 4,809 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, copenhagen said: My level of cynicism is at an all-time high. My faith in God isn't shaken. However, I look at the church and see a ridiculous clown show. I have chosen the best church in the local area and supported it faithfully. It's very obvious that the church is corrupt. What's happening is that the big donors run everything. The church relies on them for financing basic daily operations, but also pushes hard to fund new jobs, the latest for the wife of the pastor. In return, the top funders determine the direction of the church, and receive perks such as volunteer teaching positions within the church, which apparently is a huge ego boost for the volunteer instructors. Meanwhile the flock really is that: unthinking sheep who would walk off a cliff with smiles on their faces if they were told to do so. They're not "dumb" per se, but they don't like to think. They prefer to have the media and the pastor and all of the hifalootin' types do the "thinking" for them. They just believe. There are lots of kids at church, they like having friends to play with for an hour or two on Sunday morning and maybe once during the week as well. The thing that bothers me the most is that the church refuses to say ANYTHING of substance with the overwhelming problems facing us today: lgbtq+ insanity, the overwhelming numbers of illegal aliens, the opioid epidemic, etc. The world is burning to the ground, and the christians are smiling like idiots covering their eyes and ears. This is clown world and my only way of coping is to laugh at it all. Well. Seems to be you need to find another church. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copenhagen Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Seeker Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 78 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/14/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 Which means either driving a fairly long distance on Sundays or moving to a different city. Either is fine by me. I kinda sorta like the evening service. The pastor isn't that bright, and he says some dumb things on occasion, but most of what he says is acceptable. He's not imaginative or insightful but more of a solid soldier who gets the job done. One thing about the church that makes me feel uncomfortable is that they've hired a significant number of ex-cons who are on the church's premises every day. I don't think there have been any incidents, but my defensive guard is up. They have a tendency to yell, swear, and generally act in an aggressive fashion, although supposedly all of them are Christians. Whatever. The church is really proud to have incorporated them. The church members are so kind to them, it's amazing. The hipster pastor is ok, there's not much to recommend him, but there's little to criticize except for the juvenile, naive new age ideas which he espouses from time to time. Again, no one really cares enough or knows enough to correct him. This is a general pattern with pastors not just locally but even famous ones. They too often say crazy and/or stupid things which are 100% speculative or just flat out false. Or they just rant about some random point and their sermons are ridiculously unorganized. I think it's because they are never ever questioned or challenged or evaluated. It's impossible to do so because discussions can't ever happen. The people who are unhappy just walk away. Their saving grace is that services these days are very short and church communities so weak it's super easy to walk away. We are clearly moving towards a church less culture and a God-less culture. Even someone who wants to engage deeply in true rigorous fellowship is ready to walk, imagine how easy it is for a casual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,218 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,941 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2020 do you only have one church where you live??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copenhagen Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Seeker Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 78 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/14/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, BeauJangles said: If your church is a circus, why not try attending a symphony of true godliness instead? The church I'm currently attending has the best lead pastor in the local area by far. I've driven out as far as 45 minutes out btw. I don't know what your standards are but the vast majority of pastors I've encountered are not intelligent and are not good public speakers. Many are spouting incoherent gibberish. I've visited just about every church with a significant membership and quite a few of the smaller ones as well locally. I've been around the block, so to speak. What sucks is that the quality of even this best in town pastor's sermons has dropped off considerably. They used to be very focused, the message clear and even a bit entertaining. Now, he's becoming like the rest, with sermons becoming unfocused and dull. I don't know what happened to him, it's all so sudden. At a certain point you just run out of things to say. Edited February 18, 2020 by copenhagen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeshua153 Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 219 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 83 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2020 6 hours ago, copenhagen said: My level of cynicism is at an all-time high. My faith in God isn't shaken. However, I look at the church and see a ridiculous clown show. I don't go to any church around, I used to, before discovering errors. Church is ekklesia in Greek, means called out ones. I have been called out, & where 2 or 3 are gathered, there God will be. It would be good to have fellowship with others, of like minds. In the meantime, I am the 2 gathered, my inner man & my outer flesh. God has made us kings & priests (2 witnesses) Rev1v6. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copenhagen Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Seeker Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 78 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/14/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 Well said Yeshua153! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,441 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,526 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, copenhagen said: The church I'm currently attending has the best lead pastor in the local area by far. I've driven out as far as 45 minutes out btw. I don't know what your standards are but the vast majority of pastors I've encountered are not intelligent and are not good public speakers. Many are spouting incoherent gibberish. I've visited just about every church with a significant membership and quite a few of the smaller ones as well locally. I've been around the block, so to speak. What sucks is that the quality of even this best in town pastor's sermons has dropped off considerably. They used to be very focused, the message clear and even a bit entertaining. Now, he's becoming like the rest, with sermons becoming unfocused and dull. I don't know what happened to him, it's all so sudden. At a certain point you just run out of things to say. For the interim, you can listen to online sermons . One pastor I can recommend is John MacArthur. Like with humans, there are some who don't like his stance on certain things like speaking in tongues, but nevertheless , he is a solid preacher and teacher IMO. "Grace to you" is their website where all his sermons are for free to listen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOrangeCat Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,413 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 1,833 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/24/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2020 I'm of two minds about this sort of thing. I feel like a lot of believers are frustrated with their local churches, often for good reason. It seems like churches in the sense of institutions might be drifting further away from the Church, meaning the body of Christ. At the same time we don't and can't know the hearts of all these countless people who make up the Christian churches of the world like God does. Their struggles and the callings God has put on their heart and how they're dealing with those things is often unknown to us unless we know these people well. The things God has asked of them may well differ from what we perceive to be the big problems of the world. God also knows what all these churches and the people within them will eventually become. We don't. Churches like the one you've described might become great someday despite their present flaws. They might be leading people to salvation and genuine repentance even in the present, despite those flaws. Because of that I'm hesitant to speak too negatively of any particular gathering of believers unless there's clear wrongdoing or doctrinal error. So by all means find another church if you need to. Any gathering of believers coming together to glorify God and spiritually support each other can be a church. I've looked to online gatherings to find my church and feel like it's working out. But I do think that if you see some clear errors you should approach the people involved privately and try to gently correct them with scripture, if you haven't already. If they receive the message, great! If not, it should be that much easier to move on. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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