The Shakings are beginning (written in late 2019)

[Behold]

44 minutes ago, George said:

For one thing, this is not "my forum", I'm simply the Steward of HIS ministry.  

Secondly, this is an ongoing debate within the body of Christ that has been discussed for hundreds of years!   The idea that people are "wolves" is really a shame because it shows the inability to recover someone in error if you do not have the heart to do so ... you should remind yourself of the passage that Timothy of how a SERVANT of the LORD is to teach ...

2Ti 2:24  And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 
2Ti 2:25  correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 
2Ti 2:26  and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. 

The Lord does the work of recovering ... oftentimes I see posters teach with such harshness that the Spirit of God is hindered in His work!

The wheat and the tares are growing up TOGETHER ... the question is how do we develop the ability to teach in such a setting.

God bless,

George

 

You are a steward of God's word, above and beyond any ministry you have.

You are called to make certain that His word is not violated, and is not abused.

It is most certainly abused here.  It is abused here every day.  I personally deal with at least 3-5 people here, per day, whenever im here, for a few years now,  who deny the Blood Atonement, and try to substitute it with "WORKS" and Cross Rejecting LEGALISM.

You bible has the epistle of JUDE in it.  He tells you, in Chapter 1  to "contend earnestly for the FAITH".... And you are not contending for it, or protecting it, WHEN you allow those who TEACH AGAINST IT, to TEACH ON YOUR FORUM..  (that  you say God gave you to supervise and protect.)

Listen, There is a huge difference between allowing a heretic the right to join a public Forum, vs, allowing them protection to TEACH THEIR HERESY for as long as they want to do it.

And that is what goes on here, for YEARS !

So, you can talk all day about "unity", but what has that to do with allowing Cross denying Theology, as taught by theologically subverted hyper religious people, to come HERE and use the Forum that God gave you to try to SUBVERT the FAITH of real Born again People. ???????????     These Grace Rejecting  Heretics come her to TEACH, they do not come here to listen or learn, and you enable them, you protect them, and you welcome them to TEACH.TEACH TEACH TEACH.....  AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM. !

Is that UNITY?..... NO IT IS NOT.     What you allow causes nothing but HATEFUL STRIFE HERE for YEARS.     Its unbelievable is what it is....  Its WRONG, yet it keeps going and going.

If God has given you an online forum, then He is trusting you  to make certain that extremely religious Legalist TEACHERS, who abuse the Cross and reject the Grace of God, are not given FULL and unfettered access to TEACH Subversive Theology,  by creating  THREADS or by fighting with Real Believers for 30 STRIFE FILLED pages.       And when you continually allow this, as you DO,  you are enabling these Grace Rejectors an opportunity to day by day , month by month, and year by year, =  attempt to subvert a real believer's  faith.

This is a bad situation and attempting to deflect what is happening here for a long time, by trying to change the subject of our discussion to "unity", is not really going to work out.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Behold

[Gideon]

13 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Gideon

   I have never seen someone so completely misunderstood before but I must say that it is not very easy to follow your train of thought because you keep saying "CAN lose his salvation if....."this is the problem Brother,let me try to help because I do think I understand your simple message.....I cannot take much more of you getting beat up,lol

   Now ,I may be all wrong here because I've not read many of your threads so I am unfamiliar with your writing.....you see ,I keep hearing people accuse of legalism & I do not see anything that has to do with legalism with what you are saying,it's how you are saying it,okay? Nobody is going to LOSE their Salvation IF....if nothing,there are no 'IFS" in the equation  ,it is simple- JESUS BLOOD=FAITH=FORGIVENESS=GODS GRACE=HOLY SPIRIT=FINISHED=SAVED=SEALED FOR REDEMPTION......the SEAL can NEVER be broken,not by you,not by anyone

    The message is now that you are Born Again,you ARE the Righteousness of God in Christ-clean slate,a New Creature in Christ Jesus......so do you have a new heart& a new mind? Absolutely BUT,it is the heart & mind of an infant,what happens if you do not feed an infant,you do not grow,growth is stunted,hindered,right? Can you lose your Salvation if you don't grow?Absolutely not,you can go through your entire physical life as an infant and still you are Saved-did you do anything effective,productive?No,absolutely not & you are still Saved

   Take this same newborn and throw it to the wolves,it will begin to eat like a wolf,howl like a wolf,eat what wolves eat & eventually he is as a wolf.....So the Born Again Christian lives in the world and strays from the Shepherd,he goes a bit further everyday,ignoring his hunger & thirst cravings and feeds on what the world has to offer,movies with cussing & filth,he is surrounded by unbelievers who keep him distracted all the day long,maybe drugs,whatever an ungodly lifestyle plus theyve showed him how to make a ton of money & he likes it,he's committing every immoral act under the sun-did he LOSE his SAlvation-ABSOLUTELY NOT,he cannot break the Seal,Holy Spirit Indwells & Remains within for the day of Redemption

   But what is happening here,the heart is hardening....slowly but surely the heart is hardening and he can choose to refuse,to have no part of God,to reject Holy Spirit,to grieve Holy Spirit....he can choose the god of this world.....this has nothing to do with repenting,sinning,oops I'm sorry.....this is the apostate,this one has been given a Gift that he no longer wants...this one FELL into disbelief & has been deafened & blinded by the own hardening of his heart,this ones heart is no longer made of flesh but of stone and he has no remorse for hating God...sound far fetched? HE was never Saved in the first place?Why? What is a reprobate,how does one fall away from what they never had......No,he never could have LOST his Salvation-no matter what he did or did not do......it is what he chose......

Not a one above has LOST their Salvation,they have rejected Holy Spirit,it was never anything they did or did not do.....they fell in love with Jesus at first sight and then did NOTHING except leave His Side,His Truth,His Relationship until his heart waxed cold and did not even LOSE his way,he chose another way-the way that leads to destruction,REPROBATE   This one will not be surprised when he ends up in hell,it might be a surprise that hell is not the picture the enemy painted,he will not rule with the devil but he most certainly knew he had chosen his destination,out of the Presence of God

   I know it is hard to imagine falling out of love with Jesus or to not feel awful as we sometimes go about our business & not spend time with God in Christ but most of us are mature Born Again Believers who are in Relationship ,we continue to feed our hunger & thirst for the Word of God ...it takes no effort because we yearn to be near Him,we don't worry bout sin or anything because we live under Grace......the message is simple,we NEED HIM,we always need Him,we always need His Guidance,Direction,His Word.......the message is for anyone that finds themselves drifting away into the world ....stay close to our Lord,HE Has Saved you & He Shall Keep you     again,its not about works,its not about sin,its not at all about doing anything to KEEP your Salvation,its yours,you are Blood Bought...it is about guarding your heart & YOU don't have to work at it,just wake up to saying"Good Morning Heavenly Father" & savor His Embrace! Paul Said "Pray without ceasing"....to me its simple,my spirit is in an active,integral,intimate Relationship communing with my Lord,my Savior all day long....filled to the brim with His Word

                                                                                                        With love-in Christ,Kwik

Kwik, I am getting to like you more and more, lol. As to my being best up, as I am the OP, I can pull the plug any time. However, I think the subject is important enough that a bit of surface bruising is worth it. I have shared the message God gave me of our need for putting on our new nature by faith for 13 years now, so I fully realize some will either misunderstand what I am sharing or misjudge my intent in sharing it. However, with that said, I very much appreciate tour tone and concern. Thank you. 

Now, with that out of the way, I read what you shared and the truth is I agree with you.  What you are saying is that there will be some who start out well, but will not heed the warnings the Word offers us nor the chastening of the Spirit to correct their path. 
 

They will let the cares of this life capture their hearts. They will let sin continue until it hardens their heart. if I am understanding you correctly, you are saying they were never saved to begin with, correct? In truth, this is what I  have always believed

Why did I not clarify better?  Because the beatings would have simply come from a different angle, lol. If what you are presenting is correct, the issue of eternal security is done away, but it is replaced with a brand new one. 

Did those people who fell away and did not continue at one time run well think they were saved? ? If you asked them of they were saved, would they have emphatically said "Yes!"? Had they prayed the prayer declaring they believed Jesus died for their sins? I suspect they did. However, because they did not continue in the faith, they fell away and did not endure to the end, correct? Thus, the fact they fell away proved they were never saved to begin with, right? 

Do you realize this opens a huge can of worms? This. means no one absolutely positively knows they will be saved in rhe end. We certainly can know it for today, but tomorrow is in God's hands. (I can  hear the chickens squawking and tar bubbling as we speak,lol)

How can we be assured? We keep our eyes on Jesus and His shed blood, amen? We heed His warnings. When we get chastened or corrected, we adjust our course, repent of the problem behavior, and walk with a clean conscience towards God  again, amen? We continue in the faith.

God alone knows who the elect are who will endure and conversely, who will wilt before the end. From His point of view, OSAS is absolute. Every sheep WILL hear His voice. I agree perfectly with this. But on our end, we are told to make our calling and election sure, right? We are told that "if we Do these things, we will never fall". Why in rhe world would God include those verses in our Bibles?  There is a reason.  

Here is the issue I have with the current OSAS teaching. It sees not just today, but rhe end result before the end result is reached. Do most OSAS proponents ever talk at all about the many warnings  given in the New Testament? Why is that? Do most think getting rid of sin in our life is as important as God does?  Those strong proponents of OSAS more often than not have an attitude that they may not openly acknowledge,  but repentance and holiness is viewed as "optional" and in fact, if preached outright, is seen as a subtle form of legalism that somehow contradicts grace and will make the believer insecure. Thus, it must be heresy (and logically, rhe person preaching it mist be a heretic, lol).

The monkey wrench in the gears gets deeper. If one does not know that they will be a believer in the end, then all the insecurity comes rushing back in for it still ends up on THEIR shoulders to stay a believer and part of the elect! 

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are putting forth, we still have need of heeding the warnings, of following the corrections, of keeping our hearts close to Him, for if we do not, and let our hearts get hardened, eventually we can fall  away, proving we were never saved to begin with. The weak link in the chain is still US. 

 So..... where can a believer find true security? There is a way, and God is slowly opening our eyes to it. The old us must die, and be taken out of the equation.  And praise God, it has been! The only problem is, we have not believed it, nor armed ourselves with the truth that promises to set is free from the heart that can drift away and become enticed with the world, or hardened by repeated sin.

And because we have not believed it, it has profited us nothing. We yield ourselves to God as miserable sinners, saved by grace, and we WERE! But..... we are not that now! We are told by Paul we are no longer in the flesh, and owe it NOTHING! He tells is to yield ourselves to God, but how we do it is critical!

So how are we to do it? We are to yield ourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead, with our shields of faith held high that we have new natures and  that no weapon formed against us shall prosper. We are to count it all joy when satan comes tempting, for we know God will make the way of escape and moreover, praise God, we know as well that we will  take it! Glory! 

When we put off our old nature by faith, we put off the heart that sin can influence. We put on, by faith, a brand new nature that is kept by the power of God through faith. Not only do we run into the holy of holies, we slam the door shut behind us, and as we hold up our shield of faith, believing that it will indeed quench ALL the fiery arrows of the enemy, we find far more security than we ever felt clinging to a doctrine alone. 

i hope you pray on this and look forward to your reply. 

blessings, 

Gids

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Gideon

[HAZARD]

9 hours ago, Behold said:

Try talking about someone who was born again.

See, when you list OT people, or Judas, who were not born again, to try to prove that the Born Again can be lost, you are only showing a complete lack of understand regarding anything about salvation.

Jesus said He lost Judas. How could Jesus lose him if He never had him in the first place?? How does one lose something or someone, we never ever had??

[Dennis1209]

11 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Jesus said He lost Judas. How could Jesus lose him if He never had him in the first place?? How does one lose something or someone, we never ever had??

Sort of like blotting out a name. How can you blot something out if it's not already there?

[Alive]

15 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Jesus said He lost Judas. How could Jesus lose him if He never had him in the first place?? How does one lose something or someone, we never ever had??

Think about the fact that Judas was before the Cross--before the New Testament and thus before being 'born again'.

The Cross changed everything...quite literally everything. In fact, much of what Jesus said before the cross needs to be understood in relationship to Jews and the OT.

Jesus lost Judas in the sense that he was one that followed Him, but not in the sense that he was given New Life and then lost it. Judas was still 'IN' the first Adam.

Big difference.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Alive

[Behold]

27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Jesus said He lost Judas. How could Jesus lose him if He never had him in the first place?? How does one lose something or someone, we never ever had??

Well a few things..

It was after the Cross was raised, after Jesus died,  that the Holy Spirit was given  during Pentecost, , and Judas died before Pentecost.

And, the Holy Spirit was given specifically to the Apostles AFTER Christ was resurrected, .... John 20:20,....... and Judas was already Dead.

But here is the most important verse for you to be shown for the first time...

= Jesus said this of Judas.   He said...   Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a DEVIL??  John 6:70

Now notice carefully, Hazard, that this is Jesus describing Judas as A DEVIL, before Jesus was crucified.

So, He is confirming something about Judas being a "Son of THE Devil"", "a Devil", long before Jesus was crucified ..... which is how Jesus described the Pharisees who rejected Him, also.  "ye are of your father THE Devil".

Jesus took it farther when describing Judas, as He literally DEFINED HIM< as "A Devil".

He is described as the "son of perdition"..... and perdition is the title for HELL itself.. in John 17:12

All this ties into why some scholars believe that this Devil, Judas, the SON of perdition, this SON of the Devil, is going to be the actual anti_christ resurrected as Judas., tho He wont call himself that name.

Now, i dont teach that as my "great Trib" Theology, but, i see how and why it can be added together, using scriptures..

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Behold

[HAZARD]

Ananias and Sapphira were both killed by the power of God because of covetousness and lying to the Holy Ghost (acts 5:1-14). That they were once saved is clear from Acts 4:32-5:1, for Ananias and his wife were classed with "the multitude of them that believed" and "were of one heart and one soul . . . as many as were posessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles feet . . . But a certain man [of those who believed and were of one heart andsoul] named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a posession." If these two were believers and had been saved and were in the church, then it cannot be disputed with any degree of honesty that they were once saved and then lost. To deny they were once saved is to deny thruth and it is not worth the price to pay.

Many galatians who were once saved and had "recieved the Spirit" who had "begun in the Spirit" who were "redeemed and justified by faith," and who were "sons" of God by being made free from sin (Gal. 3:2-4; 3:13; 24; 4:4-7; 5:1-26), FELL "from grace" and Christ became "OF NO EFFECT" unto them (Gal. 5:4, 5). They were "removed from Him" and "from grace," so once in grace always in grace is not biblical unless one stays in grace (Gal. 1:6; 3:1-5; 5:1-9). They were plainly told that to go back under the law and into sins of the flesh, meant to "frustrate [cause to fail, nullify, make void] the grace of God" and that in such case they were not in grace and would reap corruption (Gal. 2:21; 5:1-9; 6:7, 8). They were told that if they built again the things of sin that were "once destroyed" they were transgressors and sinners (Gal. 2:17-18). They were taught that true eternal security was by walking in the spirit and not fulfilling the works of the flesh (Gal. 5:16-26; 6:7, 8). Paul did not tell then that if they got in grace their responsibility as to sin was over. He accused them of falling from grace (Gal. 5:4), so such must be possible.

Many other men who were formerly saved have gone back into sin and have bee lost. This fact is clear from such statements as these: "some having put away concerning the faith have MADE SHIPWRECK. . . . he hath DENIED THE FAITH. . . . when they begin to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; HAVING DAMNATION, BECAUSE they have CAST OFF THEIR FIRST FAITH . . . and TURNED ASIDE AFTER SATAN . . . But they that will FALL INTO TEMPTATION AND A SNARE, and INTO MANY FOOLISH AND HURTFUL LUSTS, WHICH DROWN MEN IN DESTRUCTION AND PERDITION. . . . they HAVE ERRED FROM THE FAITH. . . . and OVERTHRONE the FAITH OF SOME. . . . If God will preadventure give them REPENTANCE. . . . that they may RECOVER THEMSELVES OUT OF THE SNARE OF THE DEVIL" (1 Tim. 1"19, 20; 5:8; 5:11-15, 20; 6:1, 10, 21; 2 Tim. 2:18-16).

Each one of the statements above would disprove that doctrin of once in grace and faith always in grace and faith and once saved always saved, but here in 1 and 2 Timothy are many such statements in only two small books of the Bible. False security believers go to any lengthin trying to explain away these simple passages because they so clearly contradict their theory. Some of them go so far as to deliberately mistranslate the Greek and quote self made translations of men to prove that such simple statements do not mean what they say. For example, they mistranslate "they have cast off their first faith" to "they have broken their former promises" as if this proves a person cannot be lost. The Greek word "pistin" from "pistis" is never translated promises out of hundreds of times it is used in the New Testament. It is translated "faith" 222 times and is refered to as having faith in Christ in Rom. 1:5,16, 17; 3:25; 4:5-20; 5:1, 2; 10:17; Gal. 2:20; 3:24-29; Eph. 2:9; 4:5; etc. Thus the "faith" that they made shipwreck" of, "denied," "cast off," "erred from," and did "overthrow" is the true saving faith and has no reference to some promise that the people made themselves. They could not cast off, deny, and make shipwreck of, this saving faith if they had not once had it. They could not get into a snare of the devil AGAIN unless they had once been delivered from him. They could not have "turned aside" AGAIN after Satan, if they had not been following Christ. They could not have ERRED FROM the faith through hurtful lusts and "drowned in destruction and purdition" if they had not been once in the faith and free from such lusts. They could not have their faith OVERTHROWN if they had none to overthrow.

[Blood Bought 1953]

1 hour ago, Gideon said:

Kwik, I am getting to like you more and more, lol. As to my being best up, as I am the OP, I can pull the plug any time. However, I think the subject is important enough that a bit of surface bruising is worth it. I have shared the message God gave me of our need for putting on our new nature by faith for 13 years now, so I fully realize some will either misunderstand what I am sharing or misjudge my intent in sharing it. However, with that said, I very much appreciate tour tone and concern. Thank you. 

Now, with that out of the way, I read what you shared and the truth is I agree with you.  What you are saying is that there will be some who start out well, but will not heed the warnings the Word offers us nor the chastening of the Spirit to correct their path. 
 

They will let the cares of this life capture their hearts. They will let sin continue until it hardens their heart. if I am understanding you correctly, you are saying they were never saved to begin with, correct? In truth, this is what I  have always believed

Why did I not clarify better?  Because the beatings would have simply come from a different angle, lol. If what you are presenting is correct, the issue of eternal security is done away, but it is replaced with a brand new one. 

Did those people who fell away and did not continue at one time run well think they were saved? ? If you asked them of they were saved, would they have emphatically said "Yes!"? Had they prayed the prayer declaring they believed Jesus died for their sins? I suspect they did. However, because they did not continue in the faith, they fell away and did not endure to the end, correct? Thus, the fact they fell away proved they were never saved to begin with, right? 

Do you realize this opens a huge can of worms? This. means no one absolutely positively knows they will be saved in rhe end. We certainly can know it for today, but tomorrow is in God's hands. (I can  hear the chickens squawking and tar bubbling as we speak,lol)

How can we be assured? We keep our eyes on Jesus and His shed blood, amen? We heed His warnings. When we get chastened or corrected, we adjust our course, repent of the problem behavior, and walk with a clean conscience towards God  again, amen? We continue in the faith.

God alone knows who the elect are who will endure and conversely, who will wilt before the end. From His point of view, OSAS is absolute. Every sheep WILL hear His voice. I agree perfectly with this. But on our end, we are told to make our calling and election sure, right? We are told that "if we Do these things, we will never fall". Why in rhe world would God include those verses in our Bibles?  There is a reason.  

Here is the issue I have with the current OSAS teaching. It sees not just today, but rhe end result before the end result is reached. Do most OSAS proponents ever talk at all about the many warnings  given in the New Testament? Why is that? Do most think getting rid of sin in our life is as important as God does?  Those strong proponents of OSAS more often than not have an attitude that they may not openly acknowledge,  but repentance and holiness is viewed as "optional" and in fact, if preached outright, is seen as a subtle form of legalism that somehow contradicts grace and will make the believer insecure. Thus, it must be heresy (and logically, rhe person preaching it mist be a heretic, lol).

The monkey wrench in the gears gets deeper. If one does not know that they will be a believer in the end, then all the insecurity comes rushing back in for it still ends up on THEIR shoulders to stay a believer and part of the elect! 

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are putting forth, we still have need of heeding the warnings, of following the corrections, of keeping our hearts close to Him, for if we do not, and let our hearts get hardened, eventually we can fall  away, proving we were never saved to begin with. The weak link in the chain is still US. 

 So..... where can a believer find true security? There is a way, and God is slowly opening our eyes to it. The old us must die, and be taken out of the equation.  And praise God, it has been! The only problem is, we have not believed it, nor armed ourselves with the truth that promises to set is free from the heart that can drift away and become enticed with the world, or hardened by repeated sin.

And because we have not believed it, it has profited us nothing. We yield ourselves to God as miserable sinners, saved by grace, and we WERE! But..... we are not that now! We are told by Paul we are no longer in the flesh, and owe it NOTHING! He tells is to yield ourselves to God, but how we do it is critical!

So how are we to do it? We are to yield ourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead, with our shields of faith held high that we have new natures and  that no weapon formed against us shall prosper. We are to count it all joy when satan comes tempting, for we know God will make the way of escape and moreover, praise God, we know as well that we will  take it! Glory! 

When we put off our old nature by faith, we put off the heart that sin can influence. We put on, by faith, a brand new nature that is kept by the power of God through faith. Not only do we run into the holy of holies, we slam the door shut behind us, and as we hold up our shield of faith, believing that it will indeed quench ALL the fiery arrows of the enemy, we find far more security than we ever felt clinging to a doctrine alone. 

i hope you pray on this and look forward to your reply. 

blessings, 

Gids

 

 

Here is the issue I have with the current OSAS teaching. It sees not just today, but rhe end result before the end result is reached.

One either Believes the Promises Of God or they do not. Pretending to know how things end without aPromise of God To back it up would be madness. Fortunately, for mature Believers, we have Promises from God that GUARANTEE what the “ end result” will be......it’s the very definition of what Faith is supposed to be!

I could exclude the 400 other verses that cry out that once a person is saved , they can trust God to  get them Home and just put my FAITH in the mere three following verses and be an OSAS proponent—

Perhaps some out there that think they are Saved have not even “ Started” the Way Of Salvation— Those That “ have” started by Resting in the Gospel Of Grace have a Promise from God that He will FINISH what HE started.....not me....not you.... “ HE”. Seems like “ enduring until the end” is something that God gave himself the Responsibility for....what is your take on that?

Jesus said that all of those that come to Him with Faith are ALREADY SAVED and will NEVER come under Condemnation......How do “ you” define the Words that I put in Caps?

God said that if we come to Him by Faith in His Son—- He would Save is TO THE UTTERMOST. What   Is “ your” definition of that highlighted phrase?

Please answer these questions with no side- tracking or evasions .Just answer them.Then I will happily answer any inquiries you may have if you will provide Bible Verses as I did....Thanking you in advance...

 

 

 

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

25 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Ananias and Sapphira were both killed by the power of God because of covetousness and lying to the Holy Ghost (acts 5:1-14). That they were once saved is clear from Acts 4:32-5:1, for Ananias and his wife were classed with "the multitude of them that believed" and "were of one heart and one soul . . . as many as were posessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles feet . . . But a certain man [of those who believed and were of one heart andsoul] named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a posession." If these two were believers and had been saved and were in the church, then it cannot be disputed with any degree of honesty that they were once saved and then lost. To deny they were once saved is to deny thruth and it is not worth the price to pay.

Many galatians who were once saved and had "recieved the Spirit" who had "begun in the Spirit" who were "redeemed and justified by faith," and who were "sons" of God by being made free from sin (Gal. 3:2-4; 3:13; 24; 4:4-7; 5:1-26), FELL "from grace" and Christ became "OF NO EFFECT" unto them (Gal. 5:4, 5). They were "removed from Him" and "from grace," so once in grace always in grace is not biblical unless one stays in grace (Gal. 1:6; 3:1-5; 5:1-9). They were plainly told that to go back under the law and into sins of the flesh, meant to "frustrate [cause to fail, nullify, make void] the grace of God" and that in such case they were not in grace and would reap corruption (Gal. 2:21; 5:1-9; 6:7, 8). They were told that if they built again the things of sin that were "once destroyed" they were transgressors and sinners (Gal. 2:17-18). They were taught that true eternal security was by walking in the spirit and not fulfilling the works of the flesh (Gal. 5:16-26; 6:7, 8). Paul did not tell then that if they got in grace their responsibility as to sin was over. He accused them of falling from grace (Gal. 5:4), so such must be possible.

Many other men who were formerly saved have gone back into sin and have bee lost. This fact is clear from such statements as these: "some having put away concerning the faith have MADE SHIPWRECK. . . . he hath DENIED THE FAITH. . . . when they begin to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; HAVING DAMNATION, BECAUSE they have CAST OFF THEIR FIRST FAITH . . . and TURNED ASIDE AFTER SATAN . . . But they that will FALL INTO TEMPTATION AND A SNARE, and INTO MANY FOOLISH AND HURTFUL LUSTS, WHICH DROWN MEN IN DESTRUCTION AND PERDITION. . . . they HAVE ERRED FROM THE FAITH. . . . and OVERTHRONE the FAITH OF SOME. . . . If God will preadventure give them REPENTANCE. . . . that they may RECOVER THEMSELVES OUT OF THE SNARE OF THE DEVIL" (1 Tim. 1"19, 20; 5:8; 5:11-15, 20; 6:1, 10, 21; 2 Tim. 2:18-16).

Each one of the statements above would disprove that doctrin of once in grace and faith always in grace and faith and once saved always saved, but here in 1 and 2 Timothy are many such statements in only two small books of the Bible. False security believers go to any lengthin trying to explain away these simple passages because they so clearly contradict their theory. Some of them go so far as to deliberately mistranslate the Greek and quote self made translations of men to prove that such simple statements do not mean what they say. For example, they mistranslate "they have cast off their first faith" to "they have broken their former promises" as if this proves a person cannot be lost. The Greek word "pistin" from "pistis" is never translated promises out of hundreds of times it is used in the New Testament. It is translated "faith" 222 times and is refered to as having faith in Christ in Rom. 1:5,16, 17; 3:25; 4:5-20; 5:1, 2; 10:17; Gal. 2:20; 3:24-29; Eph. 2:9; 4:5; etc. Thus the "faith" that they made shipwreck" of, "denied," "cast off," "erred from," and did "overthrow" is the true saving faith and has no reference to some promise that the people made themselves. They could not cast off, deny, and make shipwreck of, this saving faith if they had not once had it. They could not get into a snare of the devil AGAIN unless they had once been delivered from him. They could not have "turned aside" AGAIN after Satan, if they had not been following Christ. They could not have ERRED FROM the faith through hurtful lusts and "drowned in destruction and purdition" if they had not been once in the faith and free from such lusts. They could not have their faith OVERTHROWN if they had none to overthrow.

 

“If we are unfaithful , He is Yet faithful.God can not deny Himself” If one has had Saving Faith.....” Nothing in the Future can take us out of His Grip”...... That also covers those that maintain the false notion that “ He won’t let go of us, but we can let go of Him”. Nope.  “ Nothing” actually means Nothing and anything that happened after you Believed the Gospel That Saved you would be in the future.The most ardent of Believers can fall into error .It is my personal opinion that God restores those errant Children  but that is just my opinion....

 

 

 

[luigi]

9 hours ago, Behold said:

Listen,

If you are born again, then the Blood of Jesus has already allowed God to accept you and redeem you, thru your FAITH.

"faith is counted as Righteousness".  This is the : "Gift of Righteousness"......"the Gift of Salvation".

If you are born again, then you belong to God.   You've been BIRTHED INTO God, into the VERY Spirit of God.... ">Not by works of righteousness, but according to GODS MERCY HE SAVED YOU"...= already.

A born again person is not waiting to receive eternal life, they already HAVE IT, .. Jesus said. "and i give unto the born again, ETERNAL LIFE, and they shall NEVER LOSE IT (Perish)".

Jesus Himself is ETERNAL LIFE....So, do you have HIM IN YOU< READER?   DO. YOU?    Then you have ETERNAL LIFE, as "Jesus IS the Resurrection AND THE LIFE"..../ 

You are not to be found working to do.........., what God has already DONE FOR YOU< thru the blood of Jesus. = BORN AGAIN. 

 

Yes, faith is counted as Righteousness. Faith is believing, and more specifically believing in what Christ believed. So what did Christ believe? The Lord believed in loving one another, justice, truth, all of which are spiritual, not carnal.

A born again of God person is supposedly born of the Spirit, and is not carnally inclined. Someone who regularly sins is not born again of God in the Spirit. Someone who regularly indulges in carnal lusts who claims to be born again of God in the Spirit is merely deluding themself.