The Two Phases of Christ's Return

[Eddy Crocker]

20 minutes ago, not an echo said:

Uriah, this is not merely an "example of man's reasoning."  It is an illustration based solidly upon Scripture.  The same as Jesus used earthly stories to teach us spiritual truths (parables), we, as his followers, often do the same.  We just call them illustrations.  Important to remain mindful of is this:  Even a poor illustration that is in harmony with Scripture must be regarded above an accepted interpretation that is not.

A little sidebar:  I love reinforcing that Jesus never has stopped speaking in parables.  When we walk with Him, as His first disciples did, we will find that He always has something to teach us, by using examples from the world around us.

If I am understanding you correctly, you see the rapture as occurring in conjunction (some way) with Christ's return for the Battle of Armageddon.  If this is so, your interpretation is in serious conflict with Scripture and the very examples of it that you are using.  As I see it, for the rapture to not occur until this late in The Revelation would be tantamount to Noah not getting aboard the ark until the 40th day of rain.  Similarly with Lot and his daughters, only with them, it would have been raining "fire and brimstone."

The rapture happens when you are caught up into heavenly places in Christ Jesus. This is the place that he prepares as those mansions in the Heart of the father. The rapture theory is a physical catching away but scripture disproved that notion..,

Colossians 3 

3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

² Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth

How can you seek those things above if your up there already according to a physical catching away. This shows us the rapture is a risen state while living in the realm of time.

Ephesians 2:6

⁶ And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,⁷

When you receive the day appointed by the father Galations 4 and your own personal day of Pentecost Acts 2 that’s when your raptured and caught up in a risen state in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

To be raptured is to experience Jesus's baptism of fire which shows you have died to the Adamic nature and now you are resurrected in Christs resurrection through being an acceptable sacrifice upon the altar of God. Romans 12:1 you have now passed from death unto life. 
It’s appointed unto man once to die then the resurrection and the judgment. 
jesus manifested this reality of the risen state (rapture) when he couldn’t do many mighty works in his hometown because of their unbelief of not seeing him as a Son of God. They only seen him as the carpenters son.

2 Corinthians 5:16

¹⁶ Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

This is the biggest hinderance for allot of so called Christians because they only know Jesus after the flesh manifested by people’s fleshly physical interpretations of scripture.

[not an echo]

On 4/17/2020 at 1:11 PM, Diaste said:

On 4/17/2020 at 6:27 AM, R. Hartono said:

Sorry Diaste, the rapture did not happen at Armageddon battle either because those army coming with Jesus to Armageddon battle are the raptured saints taken to heaven as Great Multitude 7 years earlier.

Actually every reference to the armies that accompany the King at His return are 'holy ones'; that could mean angels. It's not definite this army is made up of translated believers from any age or time.

I personally am convinced its and army of holy ones and not raptured followers of Jesus. 

Consider the antecedent to the first "they" and the second "them" in Revelation 20:4 (KJV).  Hint: It is not to be found until the 6th and then the 11th verse prior. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by not an echo

[Eddy Crocker]

19 minutes ago, not an echo said:

Hello Eddy Crocker,

It makes me cringe that anyone might think that I am seeking after signs or a follower of signs.  Not sure what you may have seen in my posts that has led you to have this concern, if I am understanding your response correctly.  I most assuredly understand Christ's return for the Church as being imminent, and because I see this as happening with the opening of the 6th Seal, I see His opening of this seal as being imminent as well.  According to Scripture, there are signs that will occur concurrent with this event, but these will be witnessed by those left behind.  Perhaps the following sentence will clarify for you (and any) that I am not looking for, or seeking, any sign:  I believe Jesus can come for the Church, of which I'm most grateful to be a part, before I push Submit Reply 

If you want to understand the sixth seal you have to understand the tabernacle. The sixth step of the tabernacle is the second veil which separates the Most Holy place from the Holy place.

You properly can understand the tabernacle by migratory pattern by how the children of Isreal came out of Egypt. The court round about is likened unto Egypt where the witnesses of blood, water and spirit exist in the earth plane. 
We are made of the dust of the earth and we have those witnesses in us our earth that we were created from. In Egypt they had to kill the lamb which is the blood and put it on the doorpost of their houses so the firstborn would die when the angel passed over the houses. The water was the Red Sea that they crossed over. 
The spirit led them through the divided waters of the Red Sea where it says in Corinthians they were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and the sea but they didn’t get wet in that baptism. The ones that got wet died.
The Red Sea was like a veil they passed through to get into the wilderness. The wilderness is like the Holy place where the lamp stand was. Also the table of Shewbread is in the Holy place and the altar of inscense. The lamp stand signifies how Yahweh was a pillar of fire by night and a cloud by day.

The table of Shewbread signifies how Yahweh gave them manna or bread in the wilderness. The altar of incense was symbolic of intercession unto God. Moses was a type of intercessor unto Yahweh for the people. Jesus is the light (candlestick) he's the bread that comes down from heaven and he’s the intercessor for us unto Yahweh the father.

We are told to stand in the Holy place for the reason if we take the light of Christ the bread of Christ and the intercession of Christ then we are able to make it past the 6th step of the tabernacle which signifies the flesh and the second veil. This is what separates the Holy place from the most holy place.

The Most Holy place is allegorical to Heaven or the promised land.

I will show you how the second veil is transcended which is the 6 th step of the tabernacle and also is the 6th seal as well. I will explain this in my next post soon.

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, not an echo said:

Uriah, this is not merely an "example of man's reasoning."  It is an illustration based solidly upon Scripture.  The same as Jesus used earthly stories to teach us spiritual truths (parables), we, as his followers, often do the same.  We just call them illustrations.  Important to remain mindful of is this:  Even a poor illustration that is in harmony with Scripture must be regarded above an accepted interpretation that is not.

A little sidebar:  I love reinforcing that Jesus never has stopped speaking in parables.  When we walk with Him, as His first disciples did, we will find that He always has something to teach us, by using examples from the world around us.

If I am understanding you correctly, you see the rapture as occurring in conjunction (some way) with Christ's return for the Battle of Armageddon.  If this is so, your interpretation is in serious conflict with Scripture and the very examples of it that you are using.  As I see it, for the rapture to not occur until this late in The Revelation would be tantamount to Noah not getting aboard the ark until the 40th day of rain.  Similarly with Lot and his daughters, only with them, it would have been raining "fire and brimstone."

not an echo,

There is no conflict at all, (with the exception of the pre trib teeaching) the words of Jesus speak for themselves.... "the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone"

"until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all"

An illustration is a good thing , if it is accurate.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Uriah
sp

[not an echo]

14 hours ago, douggg said:

On 4/14/2020 at 11:56 PM, not an echo said:

29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 30  And then shall appear THE SIGN of the Son of man in heaven:  and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

Look on my chart, down in the lower right hand corner.   I have annotated Matthew 24:29.   Matthew 24:30a.    Matthew 24:30b.    It will save you about 50 years of your time.

Hello douggg,

Interesting chart.  I will certainly look further at it.  Where would you have the 7th Seal?

[Eddy Crocker]

54 minutes ago, not an echo said:

Hello Eddy Crocker,

It makes me cringe that anyone might think that I am seeking after signs or a follower of signs.  Not sure what you may have seen in my posts that has led you to have this concern, if I am understanding your response correctly.  I most assuredly understand Christ's return for the Church as being imminent, and because I see this as happening with the opening of the 6th Seal, I see His opening of this seal as being imminent as well.  According to Scripture, there are signs that will occur concurrent with this event, but these will be witnessed by those left behind.  Perhaps the following sentence will clarify for you (and any) that I am not looking for, or seeking, any sign:  I believe Jesus can come for the Church, of which I'm most grateful to be a part, before I push Submit Reply 

Continued from earlier prior post on the sixth step or sixth seal representing the second veil of the tabernacle. This second veil is represented by Moses not being able to cross this veil to make it into the promised land which was the Jordan River.

Moses was the first of the prophets which was under a physical priesthood that was after the order of Aarronthat couldn’t make it past this sixth step. Only Joshua which was yahshua not revealed yet but was instituting everything he was going to fulfill later on as a savior. It wasn’t the time yet appointed of the father to reveal Joshua working behind the scenes. 
John also the last of the prophets under Aarron’s priesthood who couldn’t as well make it past the Jordan River.
Johns head was cut off symbolically showing that Aarron’s priesthood was being cut off to usher in a New priesthood which was Jesus which was after the order of Melchizedek. Only Yahshua (Jesus) could bring us past this sixth step which symbolizes the flesh. Flesh and blood shall not enter into the kingdom/Heaven which is the Most Holy place. Jesus’s baptism is a spiritual baptism which transcends Johns water baptism.

The Melchizedek priesthood is where the water is turned into wine or the Old Testament is Turned into the New Testament. Aaron’s priesthood was now turned into Melchizedeks priesthood.

Even the 3rd step of the tabernacle reveals this change. The third step is at the brazen laver where the sacrifice is baptized and washed before it’s put on the altar of sin sacrifice. The third step is the dawning towards the fourth step which signifies a change that takes place from the water to the wine which represents (spirit). 
Notice in John 2:1 it says...,

And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there

Also look at the day of Pentecost...

Acts 2:15. ¹⁵ For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day

There’s a spiritual significance of after the 3rd day or after the 3rd hour. It’s simply indicating that there’s a change that takes place from the 3rd step to the 3rd hour to the 3rd day.

This number 3 is dawning toward a change that takes place at the fourth step of the tabernacle. The 4 th step is the door or 1st veil that separates the court round about from the Holy Place. Jesus says he’s the door so in Jesus we make that transition into the Holy place where’s there’s light (candlestick), Theres bread the (Table of Shewbread) and there’s intercession (altar of inscense) 

Taking the light the bread and the intercession we are able to make it past the second veil into the Most Holy Place which is allegorical to heaven or the promised land. 

[douggg]

40 minutes ago, not an echo said:

Hello douggg,

Interesting chart.  I will certainly look further at it.  Where would you have the 7th Seal?

The seventh seal is not something I would try to place on the chart - because when it was opened it revealed everything  remaining in the scroll.    i.e. Chapter 7 -22.     Which has historical, as well as present to John's time, as well as future of John's time, and future of our time, events.

My chart if for the 7 year 7oth week.   And right before it (in the upper left hand corner), annotated about the little horn, and Gog/Magog, then the 7 years beginning.

The first six seals give an overview to the 7 year 7oth week (of Daniel 9).    Which I do show the four horsemen, and annotated the six seal, on the chart.     The fifth seal is those saints martyred during the great tribulation.    I did not annotate the fifth seal.    But they would be among those who's blood is spilled - that graphic of the person on the ground in a pool of blood.   

Edited April 19, 2020 by douggg

[Eddy Crocker]

13 minutes ago, douggg said:

The seventh seal is not something I would try to place on the chart - because when it was opened it revealed everything  remaining in the scroll.    i.e. Chapter 7 -22.     Which has historical, as well as present to John time, as well as future of John's time, and future of our time.

My chart if for the 7 year 7oth week.   And right before it (in the upper left hand corner), annotated about the little horn, and Gog/Magog, then the 7 years beginning.

The first six seals give an overview to the 7 year 7oth week (of Daniel 9).    Which I do show the four horsemen, and annotated the six seal, on the chart.     The fifth seal is those saints martyred during the great tribulation.    I did not annotate the fifth seal.    But they would be among those who's blood is spilled - that graphic of the person on the ground in a pool of blood.   

The 70th week is representing the 70 years short of when Adam died in the day he ate of the fruit.  Adam lives 930 years seventy years short of a day with Yahweh. 1000 years unto God is as a day with him.

Jesus is referred to in scripture as the second Adam. The first Adam died in his consciousness (skull) or head, Jesus the second Adam picked up where the first Adam left off. Jesus died in Golgotha which means skull. This is where the second Adam picks up where the first Adam left off.
 

The day of Pentecost happened in A.D 33 1/2 approximately 7 years later the Gentiles were grafted in symbolizing  70 weeks being fulfilled by the 7 years which makes up the remaining time left of the first Adams death and how the Jesus the second Adam fulfilled those remaining years of the first Adam leading from Pentecost to 7 years later to when the Gentiles were grafted in and ushered into the kingdom.

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, Eddy Crocker said:

The kingdom comes without physical observation and the thief is not seen until it’s too late. When scripture says every eye shall see him whom they have pierced has to mean every spiritual eye shall see him.

People stumble over the words in the Bible because they interpret them literally and they are only used to elevate our eyes towards the spiritual reality.

So all the prophecies about Jesus being born a virgin, where he was to be born, His journey to the cross, His resurrection, etc., should not be interpreted literally?

Seems like spiritualization is just a crutch.

[douggg]

12 minutes ago, Eddy Crocker said:

The 70th week is representing the 70 years short of when Adam died in the day he ate of the fruit.  Adam lives 930 years seventy years short of a day with Yahweh. 1000 years unto God is as a day with him.

Eddy, the 7 year 70th week is found in Revelation 11 and again in Revelation 12.

 

In Revelation 11...

Revelation 11:3-7 + Revelation 11:8-11 + Revelation 11:2

1260 days + the 3 1/2 days + the 42 months (1256.5 days) = the seven years

 

In Revelation 12...

Revelation 12:6 + Revelation 12:7-9 + Revelation 12:10-17

1260 days + the war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half time = the seven years