“I will spit you out” ....

[Behold]

45 minutes ago, Alive said:

It is my sense of this that the Laodiceans are indicative of those that have forsaken Grace for works and it is when standing in that place, they are functionally wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked". Rejecting Grace is unpalatable to our Lord. The white garments represent the result of standing in His Grace.

"functionally wretched"...... lovely term for Legalists.    which explains, "having a FORM a ... fake pretense .of Godliness, while denying the Blood Atonement (Power thereof) = GRACE ".

Edited May 4, 2020 by Behold

[Alive]

In response to dh....

 

I don't know about all of that, but I can respond to a couple things here.

The 'works' that are acceptable to God are those that He prepared and that issue from Christ in us. So once again it is the Grace that we stand in that makes this right.

Secondly, Christ overcame by doing the Father's will. Our overcoming is no different. The Father's will is that we believe what He says and walk accordingly. Which once again puts us squarely in the Cross and Grace---those fruit and works that issue from the New Life---Christ.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Alive

[Behold]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

 

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Rev 3:20-21) 

Did you catch that? "Even as I overcame".... 

"Grant to sit with me in my throne"....that is Jesus in Jerusalem on David's Throne,  with the Born Again ruling  with him.. 

So, how do you get a ticket to that amazing 1000 years ?

The answer is in 1st John :

"Who is he that overcometh the world, but ALL that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God""
 

The answer is, everyone who is BORN AGAIN, has already "overcometh".

 

[Not me]

10 minutes ago, Behold said:

The answer is, everyone who is BORN AGAIN, has already "overcometh".

 

Jumping for joy in Christ!

And what is it they have overcome?

The fall of Adam, by the new birth in Christ..

Everything after the receiving of this new birth, is a manifestation of the overcoming of that life brought forth by that birth..

A fellow laborer in Christ, Not me 

[OneLight]

7 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

Thanks for the clarifications, brother. So, then who was the apostate church if it wasn't Laodicea? An apostate church is identified as such, but that does not indicate church body representation, from my understanding. Can you help me out with that? Thanks again. 

The Great Apostasy  is said to happen before the Man of Sin is revealed, so one could say that this would be the Laodiceans since that seems to what the church is like today.   What I was referring to in my reply is that they were greatly lacking in what they needed.  I am not so quick to call them a heretic though.  That word is so often used incorrectly.

[BeauJangles]

3 minutes ago, OneLight said:

The Great Apostasy  is said to happen before the Man of Sin is revealed, so one could say that this would be the Laodiceans since that seems to what the church is like today.   What I was referring to in my reply is that they were greatly lacking in what they needed.  I am not so quick to call them a heretic though.  That word is so often used incorrectly.

Oh, okay. No apostate church then. Apparently I was mistaken about that. Yes, there does seem to be somewhat of difference between heresy and apostasy. Perhaps it's still a little confusing to me. Here's a Wiki. Can't say I'm always impressed with them. They're pretty good though. 

 

As nouns the difference between apostasy and heresy. is that apostasy is the renunciation of a beliefs or set of beliefs while heresy is (religion) a doctrine held by a member of a religion at variance with established religious beliefs, especially dissension from roman catholic dogma.

 

[OneLight]

5 hours ago, Behold said:

To Repent, with the context being THE CROSS, simply means to BELIEVE The Gospel and be born again..

Turn from Unbelief to FAITH, is to "repent".

You are repenting of  the SIN of Unbelief...

You are turning from THAT Sin.......by TRUSTING In Christ.

See, there is no other sin you can turn from that matters, as its only the sin of unbelief that DAMNS YOU.   John 3:36

So, you repent of THAT.....of That sin., and you don't go to Hell.

That is a very narrow meaning as you describe it, though it is the first repentance we do, yet it should not be the last.  From your description, one does not have to repent after being saved.  I guess Jesus didn't take it your way as He told those who were His to repent many times in Revelation 2 & 3.  Even the Apostles spoke of Christians repenting from their sins. 

Revelation 2:4-5 -church of Ephesus - "Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.  Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent."

Revelation 2:14-16 - church in Pergamos -  "But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.  Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.  Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth."

Revelation 2:20-23 - church in Thyatira - "Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.  And I gave her time to [n]repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.  Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.  I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works."

Revelation 3:1-5 - church in Sardis - “And to the [a]angel of the church in Sardis write, ‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.  Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.  Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent.  Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.  You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.  He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

Revelation 3:15-19 - church of the Laodiceans - "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.  So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.  Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.  Therefore be zealous and repent."

Here Jesus is speaking to the church, not unrepentant sinners who are not saved, so I guess such a narrow definition of repent is not good enough for Jesus either.  I'd change your definition to be more like Christ's.

 

[Behold]

43 minutes ago, OneLight said:

The Great Apostasy 

The great apostasy is the "Error of Cain"..

Jude 1:11

Its when the majority of the "modern church" has "fallen from Grace" and is now teaching a gospel of works, in place of the Gospel of Grace.

This has happened worldwide.   Just look at this forum..   You have people kicking against Grace here..

Its the teaching that Grace, is a license to sin.  And what that tries to do, is put the believer under bondage to works to try to keep themselves saved, and this rejects GRACE and the Blood of Jesus.

Its a Satanic twisting of the Gospel of Grace .

Its a denial that the Blood Atonement is Eternal.   

Here is how it sounds..."yes, the blood atonement is eternal, as long as.......as long as you .......as long as YOU DO.......THIS......and THIS...and WORKS....

Its the replacing of the Gospel of Grace, as the gospel of works..

Its the "error of Cain".

Thats the great or final Apostasy.

Did you read this my Theology Thead...... "Pick a side....Take a Stand"    ???

 

 It'l help you to see how to recognize the Apostate.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Behold

[OneLight]

5 hours ago, Alive said:

It is my sense of this that the Laodiceans are indicative of those that have forsaken Grace for works and it is when standing in that place, they are functionally wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked". Rejecting Grace is unpalatable to our Lord. The white garments represent the result of standing in His Grace.

I don't see it that way.  It seems to me that they were full of pride believing they are rich, wealthy, and in need of nothing because their doctrine was without error believing they were rich because they were right in Gods eyes.  What group of so called Christians does this sound like?  To me, the Name it and Claim it, faith ministries that are ever so prevalent in today's world with their jet planes, mansions and large back accounts.  What work do you assume they had to do but lie and ask for donations?

[Behold]

7 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I don't see it that way.  It seems to me that they were full of pride believing they are rich, wealthy, and in need of nothing because their doctrine was without error believing they were rich because they were right in Gods eyes.  What group of so called Christians does this sound like?  To me, the Name it and Claim it, faith ministries that are ever so prevalent in today's world with their jet planes, mansions and large back accounts.  What work do you assume they had to do but lie and ask for donations?

Tbe problem with your theory is that the Charismatic groups are a small minority in the over all total - Body of Christ.

So, the final apostasy is a large one, therefore it can't ONLY be talking about the small Pentecostal-Charismatic-WOF denominations, as you are believing.

It has to be BIG.  They are not a large group, and can't be the final church apostasy, when the other 90% of of the CHURCH is not this little Denom section .

Edited May 4, 2020 by Behold