Learn a lesson from the Great Awakening ...

[OneLight]

12 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

When Yeshua died, He died for my FUTURE sins and failing.. think well on that. Think logic.

 

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

Logic dictates that there is a difference between what Jesus did and what we need to do.  It also dictates understanding the meaning of words.  In this case, if you don't apply both, your conclusion is illogical.

 

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

And that double - speak means what?

Above is an accumulation of this discussion.  You said to "think logic", so I did.  Don't you understand the process of the logic you are asking me to use?  It's not double talk at all.  It's defining what logic I saw when thinking about what you said. 

Let me break it down for you:

Logic dictates (shows me) that there is a difference between what Jesus did (cross) and what we need to do (abide/remain/continue in Him even if that means to repent).  It also dictates understanding the meaning of words (like repent).  In this case, if you don't apply both, your conclusion is illogical. (Meaning if you apply both logical arguments, you cannot logically come up with out future sins being forgiven without repentance as there is no future tense for the word repent, only a past tense, for the sins we committed in the past, and a present tense, for the sine we just committed)

Did that help?

[Behold]

13 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Yes, and when we get to be before Him in heaven, this will be the reason why.

 

There is only ONE reason why anyone goes to heaven.    Its because we are Born Again.

If we are Born again, we are already in Heaven, having been translated from darkness to light, ... we are already IN The Kingdom of God, that is within us.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Behold

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, OneLight said:

Did that help?

2000 years ago Yeshua died for my sins. They were ALL future sins and shortcomings. They are/were all forgiven. A one time Salvation from my sin.

Sadly, the Augustinian "sin dogma" was adopted and is still taught today. It has a wicked focus on sin and so we are constantly lectured about it. The evil powers love this constant 'guilt trip' because it overshadows the Heart of God and His Messiah.

I suggest you read this and understand it well.  https://www.gospeltruth.net/aug/sinsofaug.htm
That is the basis of much of our 'sin doctrine' and an over focus on it all.

The evil powers HATE that we are forgiven for all time and try to constantly muddy our understanding of forgiveness.

See it this way: we are JUSTIFIED thru Jesus/Yeshua this means our verdict of NOT GUILTY has been passed by the Father.

[Behold]

5 minutes ago, OneLight said:

 

Logic dictates (shows me) that there is a difference between what Jesus did (cross) and what we need to do (abide/remain/continue in Him even if that means to repent).

We don't remain in Jesus because of what we do, anymore then we  saved ourselves to begin with..  .. Jesus remains in US..  He is our eternal life, our resurrection, our Eternal Security,  and our everlasting peace with God.

Stop teaching the gospel of self effort.   "abide and repent'.... Try to understand that we are SAVED AND KEPT SAVED by JESUS WHO SAVED US.

See that Logic?   You should try it for yourself.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Behold

[Behold]

7 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

2000 years ago Yeshua died for my sins. They were ALL future sins and shortcomings. They are/were all forgiven. A one time Salvation from my sin.

This is exactly correct. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This salvation for our sin, is Yeshua becoming our sin, and not ours only, but for the sin of the World.

The proof that our salvation is COMPLETED, is because we are BORN AGAIN.    This is proof we have Eternal Life and Eternal Security.

The same Blood of Jesus that God provided that redeems us, is the same that continues to do so....  its a one time sacrifice ...that never stops REDEEMING.

The Blood Atonement is always saving FORWARD into the future.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Behold

[OneLight]

26 minutes ago, Alive said:

And Jesus does not contradict Paul, because Jesus taught Paul and Paul was not only highly intelligent, but very much anointed.

There 'appear' to be contradictions in scripture. Any of us that have studied this book realize this. That is where rightly dividing comes in. This is again, something we all understand and can agree on.

For myself, I am fully convinced that a true born again believer, cannot lose his salvation. I believe this for many reasons, but at the core for me, is the history of what happens at the cross, resurrection and ascension; as I have explained a number of times. I don't believe that that history of events can be 'turned back'.

So--that means that any scriptures that 'appear' to be in contradiction to the history of my being 'In Christ' during those three real time events, must have another explanation.

I have yet to read anybody dealing with this. I died, I was raised with a new 'eternal life' and then ascended to heaven in Christ with God. Now, my life is hidden with Christ in God.

This is the very most fundamental aspect of our Gospel because it is the Cross of Christ that God chose to solve the big problems. The problem of having been born in Adam the first and the 'sin nature' that exists there which makes it impossible to 'fellowship' with God.

So---someone that takes the position that a true son of God can lose that status, has to deal with the fundamentals of the Cross. Every one of these points inherent in the history of the Cross can be expanded almost infinitely using both logic, rational thought and scripture.

I need to interrupt here.  You do not see Jesus dealing with believers after they were saved in the letters to the seven churches?   In advance of you answering, if the answer somehow tries to indicate that they were not true believers in the first place, please explain to me how someone can lose what they never had for each incident of Jesus telling them to repent.  The only exception would be Jezebel as there is no indication that a false prophetess is saved.

26 minutes ago, Alive said:

Ironically, the Book of Hebrews, contains the most powerful arguments of all.

A new and better way...moving from the earthly to the heavenly and that right there is the most common theme running through the entirety of scripture. God moving things from the earthly to the heavenly. From one ground onto another. One shakes and the other is unshakable. Looking at all of the stories of the men and women in the Bible shows us that. He orchestrated things to make the great stories go from what is possible/impossible with man (earthly), to what is only possible with God (the heavenly).

Reading through it all with this understanding is very illuminating and a awesome exercise!

I guess it all depends on where you place history on your stage of truth.  For me, I do believe history is written in such a way as to highlight major points the writer wants to make, while eliminating the minor points for the sake of the major points.  I also believe that history, not being scripture, reflects the idea of the writer only and rarely is neutral.  In other words, what is church history is not the full truth.  I don't make this claim lightly, but after years of comparing what some history says and placing it beside scripture, meaning that when history tells us what is meant in scripture, I put on my Berean glasses and go to work.

As for learning what scripture is saying, it is vitally important to allow the Holy Spirit to teach you what is true and what is not.  I hold the teaching from the Holy Spirit far above any history book for the reasons stated above.  Again, the Bereans were complimented for their not taking the words of Paul and Silas as truth until they placed it beside scripture.

May I ask why you believe the church is in such a state it is in today?  I believe one of the reasons is told to use in 2 Timothy 4:1-5 where Paul is speaking of time that will come, which I say is here now.

I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.  But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

I italicized and underlined the verse I am addressing.  More and more people today want nothing more than a handout and to have to do nothing for it. This mindset is growing by leaps and bounds.  Everyone wants all the free stuff they can get without lifting a finger for it, not caring that someone else is paying for it.  Without hijacking this into a political debate, I'll just say think Socialism.   I am sure you you see it also.

This very same mindset can be seen in some theology circles today where it is taught that after salvation no sin you commit needs repentance as they will be held against you.  Salvation is a free gift from God, but they take this free gift and run it to the end of their lives to mean something it is not meant to mean.  They abuse the Mercy of God by not taking responsibility for their own actions.  Some do this to the point that they claim they never sin anymore.  They are being taught that they don't need repentance, they are just fine with whatever they do.  These had itching ears and they sought out someone who will say just what they wanted to hear, turning from the truth held in scripture - ignoring parts of scripture that disagrees with their theology.  Welcome to the church of the Laodiceans

 

[Behold]

10 minutes ago, OneLight said:

 

  More and more people today want nothing more than a handout and to have to do nothing for it.

 

Salvation is a Gift.  

Stop trying to keep yourself saved.  Instead, give all Credit due Christ alone for saving you and keeping you saved.

Don't try to take this credit for yourself by teaching a gospel of "abide and repent", as this is self effort, and self effort has no place "In Christ".

[Alive]

There is lots of self effort in a Christ walk, just not effort that has to do with salvation...so saying it like that can be confusing to folks.

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Behold said:

For the 6+ yrs you've tried to teach all believers on this forum that the Blood of Jesus is only as good as their "abiding and repenting',...so then of course i reject your gospel of works.

We are not kept saved by works or self effort... We are kept saved by what Saved us.....The Blood of Jesus.   That you dont believe this is a issue you need to resolve, asap.

I teach the Blood Atonement.  I teach "Grace through Faith"....  I teach that "God who began salvation in the born again, will HIMSELF be faithful to complete it"... Philippians 1:6

I teach the Cross and the "finished work of Jesus........, while you teach....>"abide and repent".   

I'm not going to repeat over and over again the same replies to your intentional misunderstanding of what I said and/or your purposeful twisting of the meanings of my statements.  All I will say is that you are absolutely wrong about what my replies are saying, ignoring scripture I provided to you and everyone else who is asking the very same questions over and over again.  Quotes please, they don't lie!

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Behold said:

There is only ONE reason why anyone goes to heaven.    Its because we are Born Again.

If we are Born again, we are already in Heaven, having been translated from darkness to light, ... we are already IN The Kingdom of God, that is within us.

Gee Behold, did you even see what I was agreeing to or have you changed strategy and are now just shooting from the hip?