Learn a lesson from the Great Awakening ...

[Alive]

@OneLight How do you view this verse?

Rom. 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

[JustPassingThru]

@OneLight  and this one, 

...according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in Love,  Eph 1:4

Edited May 26, 2020 by JustPassingThru

[OneLight]

On 5/25/2020 at 12:54 PM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

If Jesus or anybody else says to “ Repent”—- it would be wise to do so.In my experience as a Christian, I don’t  concentrate any more on repenting than I do “ praying without ceasing”....it just comes naturally .....anytime I screw up, and I do that pretty much every day, ( how about you ? ) I “ find” myself repenting. After Salvation , it seems Repentance is a Fruit Of The Spirit and part of God’s Sanctification process.

Yes, we all sin, and through the conviction of His Holy Spirit we are drawn to repent.  Repentance is the result of His fruit in us, not a fruit itself.

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Regardless, when Jesus says “Repent” , meaning to stop what you are doing, change your mind about what you are doing , stop your mistaken behavior , listen to me and do what I tell you to do ....be Wise,  Be Obedient ..DO WHAT HE SAYS.....

Using that Logic.....If Jesus ever  says..... “ Repent Of Your Sins TO BE SAVED!” It would wise to do that! Lucky for us  , Jesus never said that —- especially if by “ repent” Jesus was saying “ Stop Sinning” in order to be fit for Heaven...

Let's see if Jesus speaks of repentance or not.  Looks to me that He did.  Repentance is only one part of salvation, but it is indeed what one does when accepting salvation.

Luke 24:46-48

“Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.  And you are witnesses of these things."

Luke 13:5 "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

Matthew 9:12-13

“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.  But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

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After the Cross, after His Ascension and now that we are no longer under Law ,  but find  ourselves under Grace  , Jesus revealed the True Manner In which a person can be declared “ Not Guilty” by God and be “ fit for Heaven”.....Jesus used His “Chosen Vessel” , Paul to reveal The Way to Salvation....God had kept it Secret for Millenia

It was Paul that Jesus used to reveal the Good News about our Salvation....no more was it “ this is what “ YOU” must do”.....It became “ This is what  “ I” have done for lost, hopeless Sinners who can offer Nothing But their sins.The Good News is that I have done EVERYTHING necessary for your Salvation and all YOU have to do is to take it by FAITH.Two things propelled this Gospel....My Mercy and My Love .Yes, Jesus did it all ...it is up to “Us” to Cash-In on this FREE GIFT by Believing and Resting in the Gospel Of Pure Grace Plus Nothing....Believe Cor15:1-4 ( Jesus died for your sins and rose  from the Grave ) and prove you Believe it by refusing to ADD to it with ANYTHING and also prove you are Trusting in what Jesus did by RESTING in His Finished Work at the Cross.

You describe salvation very nicely.   Nothing can be added to what Jesus did, nothing.  In this we can take refuge, rest.  God does not make mistakes.

From here on out is the thought process that you and many others are making about what I say.  It is easily seen in your assumption that I try to add to salvation, which, if you read above, I don't.

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Don't make the common mistake of “ Trying” to be Saved as opposed to “Trusting” it be Saved....God ain’t gonna Save Those “ Trying” to be Saved by their Performance  or by slyly supplanting God’s Way Of Salvation- GRACE- with Repentance .The one-time  TURN, the CHANGE of MIND that takes a lost Man  from a non- Believer in Jesus to a SAVED MAN who has CHANGED the  Direction Of His Life, who has now become a  BELIEVER in Jesus has undergone the type of Repentance that God Demands....Anyone who has no Faith in The Gospel needs to change his mind and put his Faith in that and that alone in order to be Saved. Although there are other types of Repentance — THIS is the One Type That Saves.....The  common understanding of Repentancec—the Sorrow and Regret that follows Sinning —- is a trait common to the Regenerated Man...it becomes a naturally recurring behavior , spurred  by the Indwelling Holy Spirit......a Thing That was lacking in the Original Repentance......God Bless...

I often see someone who believes as you do look down on being obedient to His words and the directions His Holy Spirit gives them after they are saved.  They say it is works and works does not save you. They seem to be stuck in salvation and never move onto sanctification.  This is a misunderstanding of being obedient.  You obey because you love Him, not for any other reason, for if it is for any other reason, it is done in vain.

Through the words of Christ and the Apostles, I find that nothing is completed until the end, our death.  Are was saved the moment we accept salvation through the cross?  Absolutely!  Then what is the meaning when Jesus said in Matthew 10:22?  "And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. but he who endures to the end will be saved."  Why would Jesus even say that?  He says this over and over again!  What did the writer of Hebrews mean when they penned in Hebrews 3:6 "but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end."?   What is meant by "whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end."?  What about Hebrews 3:14 "For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end"?  Ask yourself what are all these "to the end" statements about, what's their meaning?  It seems to me that we need to take heed of "to the end" seriously and realize that salvation is the promise from Jesus beginning at the moment we accept Him as our Savior all the way through the rest of our lives until we die, something that continues through the justification and sanctification process, until the end of our life.  We need to continue, endure, hold fast "to the end".  This is more than enough proof that all we need to do with our lives is to sit back and enjoy the ride is a lie.  We have work to do in Him, the work we were created to do in Him. Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Edited May 26, 2020 by OneLight
Ended a sentence too quickly - needed to correct it

[Alive]

35 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I often see someone who believes as you do look down on being obedient to His words and the directions His Holy Spirit gives them after they are saved.  They say it is works and works does not save you. They seem to be stuck in salvation and never move onto sanctification. 

Personally, I don't recall knowing anyone that has this belief, nor have I seen anyone type this on the forum.

There may be someone, but I haven't seen them and certainly if there are some, they are a deceived minority.

Regardless of whether we believe in OSAS or not, our lives should reflect the Christ Life within us.

I believe that my sonship is permanent and you don't--so be it--there is much disagreement in christendom. Regardless, let us press on and upward in the high calling and allow His Loving nature to be seen. I am not saying this issue is unimportant---but I am saying that it doesn't necessarily mean that we walk differently.

In other words--we can, in both camps, walk out our sanctification in faith of the Christ within and His wonderful free Gift of Righteousness and Justification.

 

I do think it is very important, that our efforts to walk with Him, aren't construed to be what 'keeps us saved'.

[OneLight]

5 hours ago, George said:

This is an article I am working on ... dealing with Repentance.  I'm still working on the editing stages, but it will clarify for this purpose as my understanding of repentance and how it works in the life of the believer.

The message of the Kingdom of God spoken of by Yeshua (Jesus) and the Apostles always began with the word – Repent! We see it as an overarching theme of the entire New Testament, and yet with this very word, most people never grasp the scope of its meaning.

The word, repent, in Greek literally means to have a “changed mind” about sin.  Repentance unto salvation is a changed mind about sin and a turning toward God! True repentance will result in true salvation – and will lead to a genuine trans-formative new life with God!  

The difference between genuine and false repentance is simply your heart felt attitude about you deal and process the issue of sin.  If you're thought process and lifestyle never changes ... then one has never grasped the meaning of repentance and the result it should bring.

The famous preacher, Charles Spurgeon once said, “Repentance is as much a mark of a Christian, as faith is. A very little sin, as the world calls it, is a very great sin to a true Christian.”

True repentance will lead to saving faith that brings about a holy lifestyle. As Paul rejoiced when the carnal church in Corinth received his correction, and said,  “I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, .... godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.” [2 Corinthians 7:8-10]

So there is a changed mind concerning sin that leads to salvation … repentance toward God! The evidence of a truly saved person is your life will be changed! 

Paul warned the Corinth church and encouraged them to "Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!"  [2 Corinthians 13:5]

Now that you've made the step of repentance toward salvation, there enters into the life of a believer repentance away from sin, even with all its struggles! If you are true child of God, He will not allow you to live in a lifestyle of sin for very long.

For example, we read in Revelation 3:19, “As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous therefore, and repent.”  For if you a truly one of God's children, it says in Hebrews [Hebrews 12:5-8] that He will discipline you as a loving Father would discipline his child that He loves and warns, "if you are left without discipline," then you are possibly an "illegitimate child and not a son."

True repentance does not mean that a Christian can't genuinely struggle with their sin as Paul so eloquently pointed out in Romans 7, but Paul concludes and states, “Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” and answers himself, “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!”

While we live in this life trapped by our sinful nature, we will struggle with sin.  As John wrote in 1 John 1:6-10 "If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

So the result of repentance will lead to a changed life and a mark of a Christian. 

True repentance moves us toward a love of God and the salvation that He has provided through His Son, Jesus Christ.   A truly repentant heart hates sin and seeks godliness.   A true repentant sinner is willing to be corrected and reproved, slow to judge others, and lives a life of humility.   True repentance is the destroyer of pride, as one becomes more aware of the holiness and righteousness of God and his standards the reality sets in of how we cannot save ourselves and we depend upon the grace and mercy of God. 

As we get closer to a Holy God, the world may look upon us -- and say, "Wow, He's living a holy life!"  And from the outside, we appear to be holier, and more righteous -- but from the inside, the closer we get to the presence of God a much different thing takes place.  We become as what the Prophet Isaiah must have felt when he was in the presence of God and cried out, "Woe is me, for I am a man of unclean lips" [Isaiah 6:5]

A very unique thing takes place in the heart of a genuine Christian walking out a lifestyle of repentance, as one prays in that intimate place with God ... asking God to "search me, and know my heart and my thoughts and see if there be any wicked way in me" [Psalms 139:24-25] is coming to a vital realization of how Holy our God is. 

It is in this state of repentance that the Spirit of God can truly move in an individual as Peter stressed in the second aspect of repentance in Acts 3:19-20, ... "that the times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord."   The word, refreshing, in Greek literally means 'fresh breath' or better understood as 'revival'.

When one lives in a lifestyle of repentance, it will create within an individual a life full of vigor, revival, and refreshment that becomes contagious ... and this is how true revival begins within oneself.

I hope this helps in the discussion,

God bless,

George

Very nice start Brother!    The only suggestion I would gice is when you say true Christian.  I'd think about saying a dedicated Christian, one who will finish the race, as all who accept salvation through Christ is a true Christian as He is in them also.

[George]

4 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I'd think about saying a dedicated Christian, one who will finish the race, as all who accept salvation through Christ is a true Christian as He is in them also.

The problem is that the Scriptures describe some saints that are saved if only by fire.

1Co 3:11  For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
1Co 3:12  Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 
1Co 3:13  each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 
1Co 3:14  If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 
1Co 3:15  If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 

So it seems there are some that are in the Kingdom ... without anything ... 

Who are we to judge who or who isnt' in the Kingdom?  But this doesnt' change the fact that "justification" is an event that is not "ongoing" but rather clearly shown as transactional.  I still believe this is the crux of our disagreement.

God bless,

George

 

[OneLight]

13 minutes ago, George said:

I'd think about saying a dedicated Christian, one who will finish the race, as all who accept salvation through Christ is a true Christian as He is in them also.

 

14 minutes ago, George said:

The problem is that the Scriptures describe some saints that are saved if only by fire.

1Co 3:11  For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
1Co 3:12  Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 
1Co 3:13  each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 
1Co 3:14  If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 
1Co 3:15  If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 

So it seems there are some that are in the Kingdom ... without anything ... 

Who are we to judge who or who isnt' in the Kingdom?  But this doesnt' change the fact that "justification" is an event that is not "ongoing" but rather clearly shown as transactional.  I still believe this is the crux of our disagreement.

God bless,

George

 

Those are works being tested by fire, not the soul of a person.  Yes, some will lose rewards up to everything but their salvation for their works were of wood, hay or straw.  I think what threw you off was my reference to finishing the race.  Perhaps I should of said endured to the end?

[George]

5 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Perhaps I should of said endured to the end?

If you are referencing the passage in Matthew ... that would point to an end time scenario ... very much connected to the passage in Rev 12:11.

The danger in thinking that you participate in the "salvation" process leaves one thinking their salvation is conditional based on what they are doing, instead of grasping the truth that salvation is completely a gift.   If you miss this, then you can fall into this trap and never truly enter into His Rest.   There is a REST for the people of God, not based on what they do, but based on what He has done! 

[Michael37]

13 minutes ago, George said:

If you are referencing the passage in Matthew ... that would point to an end time scenario ... very much connected to the passage in Rev 12:11.

The danger in thinking that you participate in the "salvation" process leaves one thinking their salvation is conditional based on what they are doing, instead of grasping the truth that salvation is completely a gift.   If you miss this, then you can fall into this trap and never truly enter into His Rest.   There is a REST for the people of God, not based on what they do, but based on what He has done! 

And what a great gift our salvation is, that having sinned due to the circumstances of our predetermined existence, we are freed from the penalty of that sin to produce works that reflect our state and standing in Christ, not with pride in our accomplishment but with modesty and humility at being cleansed by the blood of the Lamb slain for us.

Php 2:12-13  Wherefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (13)  For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

[George]

8 minutes ago, SONshine said:

We are made righteous.

What I love is this ... 

2Co 5:21  For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 

That is is in HIM that we have confidence to approach the Holy of Holies and boldly approach the throne of Grace ... not in our righteousness ... but in His righteousness!