Lawlessness Increasing

[RonaldBruno]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

Satan is an angel, not a demon.

 All fallen angels are demons, probably 200 million fell. What do you think Satan created yet a different creature? As if bad angels weren't enough? He has no creative power to do that. God created angels and some rebelled and followed Satan. We seen them possess people. A legion possessed that man that Jesus ordered to leave, go into the pigs and off the cliff. They can do all sorts of evil, change their appearance - as we will see them as demon locusts flying out of the Abyss or as firey lion-faced horsemen.

Unless I'm missing something in scripture that you can show me? I've just always thought demon is just another name for fallen/bad angel and Satan us the leader.

[RonaldBruno]

14 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It is VERY possible that God Himself will sound His trumpet

Wow, can you imagine? If that is true, it's likely that Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Freddie Hubbard, Chet Baker, Lee Morgan and many more are up there taking lessons! 

[iamlamad]

20 minutes ago, RonaldBruno said:

Wow, can you imagine? If that is true, it's likely that Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Freddie Hubbard, Chet Baker, Lee Morgan and many more are up there taking lessons! 

What does the WORD say? Did God all it "the trump of angels?" No. "The trump of Phil Driscoll?" No, He called it the "trump of God." 
Since God created the universe, I am sure He could create a trumpet sound, even without a trumpet.

Since He did say "the trump of God" that rules out any trumpet sounded by angels.

[dhchristian]

9 hours ago, The Light said:

The Church will be in heaven before the falling away occurs.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (2 Thess. 2:3)

Show me a proof text from scripture, where the 144K will be raptured? there is none. in fact they are sealed so that no harm will come to them. There is only one rapture, and one day of Christ, when the beast is killed at the same time by Christ. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (2 Thess. 2:8) 

This is not Armageddon, as Armageddon is diverse it is the day of the LORD. After the beast is destroyed, It will take time for the armies of the World to gather in Israel for Armageddon, not to mention all the things the Israelites will have to do for restoration, such as Zech. 12:10ff. and those points outlined in Daniel 9:24-27

[RonaldBruno]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

What does the WORD say? Did God all it "the trump of angels?" No. "The trump of Phil Driscoll?" No, He called it the "trump of God." 
Since God created the universe, I am sure He could create a trumpet sound, even without a trumpet.

Since He did say "the trump of God" that rules out any trumpet sounded by angels.

Just having a little fun. But hey, you said initially that it was the last trumpet blown during and earthly Feast of Trumpets. Then you doubted your own claim, back peddled to Gods trumpet to argue the point that an angel is doing the blowing. It is Gods trumpet - HE IWNS EVERYTHING.

The denial that the SEVEN TRUMPETS BLOWN BY ANGELS IN REVELATION has anything to do with the last trumpet is obvious. You cannot a accept that notion, so you explain it away "Maybe God is blowning it". The reason for this denial is that if the Pre-tribbers accepted the 7th trumpet as the last, their whole view/ interpretation goes down the drain and is rendered false.

To think that some Jew in Jerusalem holding a shofar, blowing it 100 times during this Feast is the one that blows the note that triggers one of the most important events in history, our resurrection,  is weak. 

I can just Jesus and the Father standing by waiting for thus guy, counting 1, 2, 3 ... 77, 78, ... 98, 99 ... get ready, here it comes ... Wait ... He stopped, he miscounted and didn't blow the last one ... do you believe this guy, he put his horn down, thought he was finished and walked away! JESUS turns and says, 99 is good enough - let the translate them. 

[The Light]

5 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

 All fallen angels are demons

I don't believe this is correct.

5 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

probably 200 million fell.

Bad logic, equating 200,000,000 men to fallen angels.

5 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

What do you think Satan created yet a different creature?

Uhhhh, uhhhhhh, uhhhhh. Yeah, AAAHHHHHHH.

Satan and his fallen angels had the power to create other creatures by having sex with the daughters of men. I always thought that a demon was the spirit of a nephilim. A Nephilim is the result of the "sons of God" and the daughters of men.

Gen 6

⁴ There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

 

5 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

As if bad angels weren't enough? He has no creative power to do that.

He and his fallen angels do. See above.

5 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

God created angels and some rebelled and followed Satan.

Yep.

5 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

We seen them possess people.

Yes, we know that Satan entered Judas.

5 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

A legion possessed that man that Jesus ordered to leave, go into the pigs and off the cliff. They can do all sorts of evil, change their appearance - as we will see them as demon locusts flying out of the Abyss or as firey lion-faced horsemen.

But are demons angels?

5 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Unless I'm missing something in scripture that you can show me? I've just always thought demon is just another name for fallen/bad angel and Satan us the leader.

And I always thought that a demon was a spirit of a nephilim.

I do know what happened to the fallen angels that came to earth.

Jude 1

⁶ And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Just having a little fun. But hey, you said initially that it was the last trumpet blown during and earthly Feast of Trumpets. Then you doubted your own claim, back peddled to Gods trumpet to argue the point that an angel is doing the blowing. It is Gods trumpet - HE IWNS EVERYTHING.

The denial that the SEVEN TRUMPETS BLOWN BY ANGELS IN REVELATION has anything to do with the last trumpet is obvious. You cannot a accept that notion, so you explain it away "Maybe God is blowning it". The reason for this denial is that if the Pre-tribbers accepted the 7th trumpet as the last, their whole view/ interpretation goes down the drain and is rendered false.

To think that some Jew in Jerusalem holding a shofar, blowing it 100 times during this Feast is the one that blows the note that triggers one of the most important events in history, our resurrection,  is weak. 

I can just Jesus and the Father standing by waiting for thus guy, counting 1, 2, 3 ... 77, 78, ... 98, 99 ... get ready, here it comes ... Wait ... He stopped, he miscounted and didn't blow the last one ... do you believe this guy, he put his horn down, thought he was finished and walked away! JESUS turns and says, 99 is good enough - let the translate them. 

It is good to have fun. And it is OK to have fun at my expense. I will smile with you.  When it comes to backpedaling, sorry, but I don't do that. It is absolute truth that the "last trump" will indeed be the last trump of the church age, for the pretrib rapture will end the church age. However, I am sure that is not what was in Paul's mind when He wrote "last trump." I think it is FAR more likely that he was thinking of that final, long blast of the trumpet that ends the Feast of Trumpets. You should know, if you don't already, that the Feast of Trumpets is the one feast that "no man knows the day nor the hour. In the days of Paul, there had to be TWO witnesses that saw with their own eyes the little sliver of a new moon, and then told the High Priest that they saw it. What if it was cloudy? Then no witnesses would testify and the day of the feast would be put off. If the new moon did not  come into few until late in the night due to clouds, then it was postponed a few hours. In truth, "no man knew the day nor the hour," for the time was dependent on witnesses. 

Sorry, but when a trumpet is given to an Angel, for a time at least, it is his trumpet. How could anyone think that "the trump of God" would be sounded by an angel? 

The denial that the SEVEN TRUMPETS BLOWN BY ANGELS IN REVELATION has anything to do with the last trumpet is obvious.   Now you have said truth. This is something I can agree with. I DO deny that the 7 trumpets in Revelation have ANYTHING to do with Paul's "last trump." Anyone that truly understands Revelation would agree with me: first the TIMING disagrees with Paul's timing: his timing for the "last trump" that wakes up the dead in Christ is just before wrath - the very wrath that starts the Day of His wrath at the 6th seal. That timing is over 3 1/2 years before the 7th trumpet.  Next, the 7 trumpets in revelation are judgments: and the 7th a woe. The rapture is neither judgment nor woe. However, it is truth that the rapture will be the trigger for the start of the Day. 

Next, John tells us nothing of a gathering OR a coming at the 7th trumpet. Other-tribbers are real good at ad libbing comings  where they want them.  John and Paul tell us of two comings: anyone want to add one? 

Next, the raptured saints are seen in heaven, NOT just after the 7th trumpet, but rather, just after the 6th seal. that is a HUGE difference. 

By the way, people that have see dreams or had visions of the rapture tell of an INTENSE trumpet sound. One man said it sounded like a very very very loud car horn, extremely loud and very ear piercing, and lasted for a long period of time, like a stuck horn. I still believe it is GOD creating this sound. 

You cannot a accept that notion  Again, totally right! But for a good reason: it is simply not the intent of our God.

The reason for this denial is that if the Pre-tribbers accepted the 7th trumpet as the last, their whole view/ interpretation goes down the drain and is rendered false.  You have this wrong. The real reason we do not accept the 7th trumpet as "the last trump" is very simple: IT ISN'T.  Is that a good enough reason? 

To think that some Jew in Jerusalem holding a shofar, blowing it 100 times during this Feast is the one that blows the note that triggers one of the most important events in history, our resurrection,  is weak.  Again I agree.  It is NOT a Jew blowing a Shofar. What I am saying is that GOD will create a sound SO LOUD it will drowned out the sounds of the shofar, because it will sound at that same moment in time.

YOU do understand, I hope, that Jesus has already fulfilled all the spring feasts at His first coming?

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (2 Thess. 2:3)

Show me a proof text from scripture, where the 144K will be raptured? there is none. in fact they are sealed so that no harm will come to them. There is only one rapture, and one day of Christ, when the beast is killed at the same time by Christ. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (2 Thess. 2:8) 

This is not Armageddon, as Armageddon is diverse it is the day of the LORD. After the beast is destroyed, It will take time for the armies of the World to gather in Israel for Armageddon, not to mention all the things the Israelites will have to do for restoration, such as Zech. 12:10ff. and those points outlined in Daniel 9:24-27

Rev. 7:

³ Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

⁴ And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev. 14:³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

There is no question they were on the earth in chapter 7, but in heaven in chapter 14. If they were not raptured, how did they get to heaven?

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

Rev. 7:

³ Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

⁴ And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev. 14:³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

There is no question they were on the earth in chapter 7, but in heaven in chapter 14. If they were not raptured, how did they get to heaven?

This is the classic case of ripping scripture out of context to prove a point. 

Let us look closer at the passage.

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. Notice the 144K are on Mt. Sion with Lamb here, this is on earth. (AKA Jerusalem)

And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: Now we Jump to heaven and the heavenly harpers harping Their voice is heard on earth. 

And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These Heavenly harpers are the subject of this verse in heaven, and the song they were singing could only be learned by these 144K who are still on earth.

As You can see the 144k are on earth following the Lamb around, they are the "firstfruits of the Kingdom, the millennial Kingdom and are therefore protected by the Lamb. The question is will you admit you are wrong?  

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These Heavenly harpers are the subject of this verse in heaven, and the song they were singing could only be learned by these 144K who are still on earth.

Can't agree. The throne and beasts and elders are in heaven, and the 144,000 are redeemed apo/lit. "away from" the earth. They are in heaven.