The two promises of God that contradict each other

[Daniel Marsh]

10 hours ago, alaric_w said:

Firstly, you need to ask God for wisdom.

There is a similarity between old testament saints and tribulation saints. Both are not sealed with the Holy Spirit

In the old testament before Jesus died and paid for our sins,  the Holy Spirit cannot seal itself within a believer because they are still unclean as sin is not removed. After Jesus rose from the dead, he brought all old testament saints with him.

Matthew 27:51-53 tells us what happened right after Jesus Christ died: “Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.”

In the tribulation, believers cannot be seal with the Holy Spirit since it has been removed and got beheaded by the anti-christ. But God will raise them up when Jesus comes at the end of the tribulation. 

 

In Revelation they died for Christ which indicates they are Christians, not Jewish Religion. 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

As already pointed out,

 

Revelation 14:12   Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

[Gideon]

On 6/7/2020 at 3:22 AM, alaric_w said:

The promise of eternal salvation and never be seperated from God

John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 

John 10:28-30 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
 

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor e principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

The promise of eternal condemnation for receiving the Mark of the Beast

Revelation 14:9-11 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
 

What happen if a Christian who is saved eternally receives the Mark of the Beast? It will result in conflict for God's promise of eternal salvation and eternal condemnation. This will put God in dilemma because he cannot go back on his word or lie. And it is because this reason, we have assurance of our eternal salvation through the finished work of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us.
 

How can God prevent this dilemma from happening? It is possible if the Church is no longer physically on earth before the anti-Christ implement the Mark of the Beast.

The rapture of the Church is the event that will prevent the conflict of God's promises. The removal of the restrainer is the removal of the Church (Holy Spirit and Temple). Christians sealed with the Holy Spirit and each christian is a temple for the Holy Spirit. 

2 Thessalonians 2: 7-8 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 
 

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
 

Conclusion: The rapture of the Church must happen before or immediately before the implementation of the Mark of the Beast. During Convid19 pandemic, ideas similar to the Mark of the Beast has been implemented as a means for contact-tracing. I believe evolve into Mark of the Beast soon. The Church's time on earth is short

References for implementation
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2020060606
https://nypost.com/2020/06/05/singapore-plans-wearable-virus-tracing-device-for-all/

The debate between pre-trib and post-trib can be defended from both sides with scriptures. The problem I see is that the pre-trib teaching assures multitudes that we will not face hard persecutions, so the need for spiritual preparation is seen as a form of legalism, when the truth is it is our calling no matter what our future may hold. 

In the early church, entire families were fed to wild beasts if they did not recant. Yet their faith was so great that they did not cave and recant. If we are raptured away before the mark of the beast, wonderful. But our hearts need to put down deep roots now, regardless, so that we are prepared no matter what. 

Easy-believism is he mark of current Christianity, especially here in the west. But Jesus told us clearly that all that live godly in Christ Jesus WILL suffer persecution. What does this reveal as to the depth of out walk right now, for we know nothing of real persecution. 

To soothe rather than to warn may make one popular right now, but a cloud  of unfathomable darkness approaches on the horizon, and we are in no way prepared to face it. We have gathered together teachers and pastors willing to tickle our itching ears.  Holiness is not believed to be possible, so why try? Walking out our Christianity as living sacrifices is said to be our reasonable service by God, but in our minds, this is neither reasonable nor practical. 

Jude encouraged those he addressed that they needed to earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints. How much more do we need to hear these words and  bare our hearts before our God,  crying out to Him to purify us and transform us into His image, so that when the end does come, in whatever form it may take, we can walk with confidence, knowing that God can and will keep us from falling.

May God draw each of us deeper into Him.

blessings,

Gideon

[Heybro]

6 hours ago, Gideon said:

Jude encouraged those he addressed that they needed to earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints. How much more do we need to hear these words and  bare our hearts before our God,  crying out to Him to purify us and transform us into His image, so that when the end does come, in whatever form it may take, we can walk with confidence, knowing that God can and will keep us from falling.

May God draw each of us deeper into Him.

blessings,

Gideon

This is exactly where we need to be in our walk with Him. Many say we walk the walk and talk the talk, but what we really need to do is, LIVE THE WALK, JUST SAYING, God bless bro.

[Willa]

On 6/7/2020 at 12:22 AM, alaric_w said:

The promise of eternal salvation and never be seperated from God

John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 

John 10:28-30 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
 

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor e principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

The promise of eternal condemnation for receiving the Mark of the Beast

Revelation 14:9-11 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
 

What happen if a Christian who is saved eternally receives the Mark of the Beast? It will result in conflict for God's promise of eternal salvation and eternal condemnation. This will put God in dilemma because he cannot go back on his word or lie. And it is because this reason, we have assurance of our eternal salvation through the finished work of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us.
 

 

This simply means that those  who take the mark of the beast are not Christians.  They may be tares or false Christians, but they are not genuinely saved.   It is impossible for God to be put in such a dilemma so the fault must be ours.  I think that God is God and our doctrines and understanding may be in error.  However there seems to be more scriptural underpinning for some type of eternal security and predestination than contrary doctrine.  

 

[Willa]

On 6/13/2020 at 7:07 PM, alaric_w said:

Firstly, you need to ask God for wisdom.

There is a similarity between old testament saints and tribulation saints. Both are not sealed with the Holy Spirit

In the old testament before Jesus died and paid for our sins,  the Holy Spirit cannot seal itself within a believer because they are still unclean as sin is not removed. After Jesus rose from the dead, he brought all old testament saints with him.

Matthew 27:51-53 tells us what happened right after Jesus Christ died: “Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.”

In the tribulation, believers cannot be seal with the Holy Spirit since it has been removed and got beheaded by the anti-christ. But God will raise them up when Jesus comes at the end of the tribulation. 

 

The Holy Spirit cannot be beheaded.  Saints may be. 144,000 Jews were sealed with the Holy Spirit during the trib.

[Kezzo4]

Thank you.