Will Christians who don't fully obey the bible go to heaven?

[David1701]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

Below is a copy of my posts.  You have been on the attack for a few days now.  What seems to be the issue?  You can see by my posts that what I claim is not made up, nor can it not be supported by scripture.  Just what do you think Paul meant when he spoke Romans 1:18-21?  Read it carefully.  Consider what it is like when God plants the reality of Himself in someone if it does not take faith to believe what you have been shown is true or not.  Maybe you are thinking I meant saving faith?  I never said that.  Read my words carefully.

If God has made Himself known to all, and He sent His Son to die for the whole world, how is it you cannot see the connection?

 

Below are my posts so you don't have to go searching for them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh boy!  Never mind.

[TheBlade]

Hi.. your making statements that you should not "They are not repenting of all their sins". How would you know this? We can't see the heart. "For the LORD does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.” And look at the posts now. We are all chiming in and so much of it is based on personal view first and then the word to back up that personal view.  And some talking with pride.

When you get to that door so to speak. Its not works He will be looking for. Not if you obeyed or not. Its do you know and believe "Jesus came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sin. Was buried rose the 3rd day and is the only way to the Father". We each work out our own salvation.

Its not written what God has started man will finish. We can lead others astray by our personal belief that we know is the right one! See He draws them.. what He starts He not maybe no might.. being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ. Did you see it? "being confident" "will complete it". See its faith. He is always calling those things that be not as though they were. And so many times it the other person thats wrong lost missing it. Not us huh

In cases like this.. as James said.. ask Him for wisdom. Its faith again. You ask.. He will give it. People are not saved based on how we personally believe. Again.. HE does the calling drawing ..not us. Lets try to leave out our personal view. John 3:16, Rom 10 9-10. If theres something in their life He convicts the heart not us. We don't judge...or we get judged the same way we do it.

 

[LonerAndy]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

Two great examples, but why can't they both be active at the same time?  I heavily lean toward number 1, but have also seen the second choice at work.  Usually, those of the second category strongly claim to be a long time Christian, where those of the first category admit they are new believers.

Well again, you need to realize that where you are on the path, also depends on how many steps you have been informed to take.   It's a matter of maturity, rather than time.

Have you ever met a 40 year old, that acts like a 10 year old?  I have.  People that are in adult bodies, that have walked around for 30 years or more, and still have not had to grow up.

Well the same can be true in the case of Christians.  People that have never had their faith tested, and have never been told what they need to do, to mature in their faith.

Just to have a short confessional, I knew a girl who came to my parents church when I was growing up.  They lived in a broken home, with moral-less people, but she became a Christian.

However, no matter how we were at Church, at the end of they day, they went home to their broken family, and had to live with their crazy relatives.

And I honestly did not treat this women in a way that I should have, because... well she's not living perfectly like a Christian.

That's pretty easy for me to say, when I had an intact home, with a mother and father, and neither of them drank, or smoked, or did drugs, or cussed, or anything else of that nature.

Just because she's been going to church for 5 or 10 years, doesn't matter, because when she went home from Church Camp in the summer, she went back to a loony bin of non-christian living.

So maybe those people who claim to be long time Christians, are just wrong, and they are not.   That could be.

But don't assume.  You don't always know what those people are dealing with in their lives.

I should mention, about that girl above.... I had no idea what she was going through, until years later when someone told me the difficulty she had at home.

[OneLight]

24 minutes ago, LonerAndy said:

Well again, you need to realize that where you are on the path, also depends on how many steps you have been informed to take.   It's a matter of maturity, rather than time.

Have you ever met a 40 year old, that acts like a 10 year old?  I have.  People that are in adult bodies, that have walked around for 30 years or more, and still have not had to grow up.

Well the same can be true in the case of Christians.  People that have never had their faith tested, and have never been told what they need to do, to mature in their faith.

I agree.  Maturity has nothing to do with how many times you've been around the sun.

24 minutes ago, LonerAndy said:

Just to have a short confessional, I knew a girl who came to my parents church when I was growing up.  They lived in a broken home, with moral-less people, but she became a Christian.

However, no matter how we were at Church, at the end of they day, they went home to their broken family, and had to live with their crazy relatives.

And I honestly did not treat this women in a way that I should have, because... well she's not living perfectly like a Christian.

That's pretty easy for me to say, when I had an intact home, with a mother and father, and neither of them drank, or smoked, or did drugs, or cussed, or anything else of that nature.

Just because she's been going to church for 5 or 10 years, doesn't matter, because when she went home from Church Camp in the summer, she went back to a loony bin of non-christian living.

So maybe those people who claim to be long time Christians, are just wrong, and they are not.   That could be.

But don't assume.  You don't always know what those people are dealing with in their lives.

I should mention, about that girl above.... I had no idea what she was going through, until years later when someone told me the difficulty she had at home.

Sounds like the church was not following up properly, but then again, I was not there.  Could be that they tried and was told to leave?

As for those who claim to be Christians but are not.  It's been my experience that those who seem to fit that mold are also those who claim to be your elder, can quote scripture frontward and backward, but dont have a clue how to apply it to their lives.  THough I will not judge them, I have suspected a few here on Worthy to fit that mold, but I could be wrong as I don't know their heart.

[justme007]

8 hours ago, missmuffet said:

It sounds like you are Calvinist. I do not support the Calvinist belief. 

I don't even know what a calvinist is. BIBLE!!!! read THE BIBLE!!!!

[Eddy Crocker]

2 hours ago, Betha said:

You are quite right. It can be seen from some scriptures that there will be work to do in Heaven Mat 5v19;  Joh 14v1.....and the rewards we earn  will determine our Position whether great or small. Praise the Lord !

1 Corinthians 3:8-15,

8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.  9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.  10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.  11For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.  12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,  13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.  14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.  15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.  

1 Corinthians 15:35-58 

³⁵ But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

³⁶ Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

³⁷ And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

³⁸ But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

³⁹ All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

⁴⁰ There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

⁴¹ There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

⁴² So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

⁴³ It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

⁴⁴ It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

⁴⁵ And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

⁴⁶ Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

⁴⁷ The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

⁴⁸ As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

These scriptures are showing us the different bodies and glories of those different bodies in the heavens. So our glory is determined on how much we have worked out or manifested everything that was already finished in Christ and from the foundation of the world.

If our works are burned we will suffer loss but our soul shall be saved yet so by fire. The loss that we suffer will be a higher state of glory we could of had but our works were burned up because they were the works of the flesh.
 

These works are predestined for us to walk in as our proof of our faith being real and alive. We are manifesting these works that already done in the heavens to be done by their manifestation upon this earth or in this earth us.

Because we were made from the dust of the earth and we have the witnesses of the spirit, water, and blood that testifies of the unity of the Spirit, the father, the son and the Holy Spirit in us the earth that he dwells within us and has his footstool upon the earth as well. 

1 John 5:7-8,

 

⁷ For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

⁸ And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 6/21/2020 at 1:10 AM, Ineedhugs said:

 the problem is not enough bible reading and their opinion is corrupted by the worlds standards 

 

Indeed, the modern notion of 'grace' has many confused, ultimately they still believe that Church attendance is the main thing, and thereby neglect their state of mind.

 

The good news is that the spirit of the law is what is important:

 

Exodus 23:1-9 Love your neighbor, strangers, enemies and them that hate you.

Leviticus 19:9-34 Love your neighbor and strangers.

Deuteronomy 10:16,19 "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart"  "Love ye therefore the stranger"

 

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 "I will raise Israel up a prophet.. and shall put my words in his mouth..

and it shall come to pass that whosoever will not hearken to him shall be destroyed from among the people" [Acts 3:23]

"Also the sons of the stranger that join themselves to the Lord.. and hold fast to my covenant even them will I bring to my holy mountain

for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all people"  Isaiah 56:3-7

"Behold the days come says the Lord, that I will make a renewed covenant.. this shall be the covenant, I will put my law in their minds and hearts" Jeremiah 31:31-33

 

"Whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do you even so to them, for this is the law and the prophets" Matthew 7:12  John 15:12

A big part of the good news is the actual words of Christ; He preached the good news; [Luke 4:18-21] the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 and Jeremiah 31:31-33.

One holding dear the words of Christ, because of a belief in Christ, is therefore very literally under the renewed covenant;

having the whole law [Matt 7:12] literally in their mind and heart.

And that needs to be the focus; Christ and therefore the actual words of Christ.

The words He spoke are spirit and are life, John 6:63 therefore being led by His Spirit is to be led by His words, and if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness and self control.

And they that are Christs have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. Galatians 5:22-24  

 

And so yes, a mind focused on the love that Christ taught would not use course jokes or other things that could potentially cause another person to needlessly hurt or feel shame.

Love is first and foremost, as we are led by the love that Christ and Paul taught we are led away from flesh based desires.

 

-------

 

"If any man does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let that man be anathema"  1 Corinthians 16:22

 

"He that has my commands and keeps them he it is that loves me" John 14:21

 

"This is my command, that you love one another" John 15:12

[Mike Mclees]

I think we all need to be patient and  long suffering. I have made many mistakes in my walk He alone knows my spirit and if not for grace I would have no hope. Nor would you.  I come to the Lord daily   

We all should study Psalm 139 and under line verse 24. confess our weaknesses with a pure and open heart. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Mike Mclees

[Salvation67]

On 6/22/2020 at 5:00 PM, LonerAndy said:

So there are two different views on this, and both have merit.

1.   First view is that, all of us need to realize not everyone is at the same point, on their path in life.

Meaning, where you are on the path, may not be where that other person is on the path.   This might be hard to grasp, but I find an illustration from Mark Gungor might be helpful.

So Mark Gungor is a preacher, and years ago he had a former prostitute come into church, and was at the service.  Well one of the ladies in the service scolded this former prostitute for having her sweater puppies hanging out.  By hanging out, I just mean she was dressed in a somewhat revealing outfit, not that she was naked or wearing something see-through for show-and-tell.   The former prostitute was left crying in the hall.

The following Sunday Gungor got up and reprimanded the entire church.  You don't know where people are in their Christian walk when you show up at Church.  You don't know where that lady in front of you is, in her walk with the Lord.   That former prostitute, her whole life, that's how women dress up.   That is what she has always known as how you dress up as a woman.

So you need to be very careful about how you approach people, because you don't know.  Perhaps that person who is cursing and swearing, maybe they just became a Christian, and they have no idea they shouldn't talk like that.  Perhaps that is how they were raised their whole lives, and don't know any better.

Therefore, when you are in those situations you should carefully consider, whether are not they are just on a different part of the path than you are.  Maybe they still don't know how a Christian should really act.

2.  The second view, is simply that you need to be careful when you say "that Christian".  Because not all are Christian.

Jesus himself said Why do you call to me 'Lord Lord', and do not do the things that I say?  Luke 6:46.

Matthew 7:22 says:

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'  Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

So to be more blunt, yes every Christian is going to Heaven.  All of them are.  Every single Christian, is destined for Heaven.

While that's true, not everyone you think is a Christian, is a Christian.  Many people are going to meet their maker, only to find out "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers".

Hope that helps.

This has got to be one of THE BEST posts I have ever read on this forum!!!!! This is what I come here for. this is what I need as ababe in Christ, sound, logical and scripture based reply. God bless LonerAndy

[Prycejosh1987]

The good news is god cannot expect sinless beings because it is unachievable in this evil world. Think about it, even one evil thought is deserving of hell, according to gods standard. Because to hang with god, requires being exactly like him and the angels, and sin cannot dwell in his presence. I suppose if people wilfully sin then hell will meet them.