trinity Preach The Trinity

[Your closest friendnt]

20 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Indeed, but in Jesus Christ is the Father and Holy Spirit: 

“See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily/ For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Colossians 2:8-9) 

“For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.” (Colossians 1:19-20) 

Yes Jesus is the Distinct Person of the Son, but also at all times One with the Father and Holy Spirit: 

“Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.” (John 14:11) 

“Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending youAnd when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” (John 20:21-22) 

The Son died for our sins, but He never was not part of the Father and Spirit; They are One God in Thewe Peeaona, Blessed Trinity. 

 

"Indeed, but in Jesus Christ is the Father and Holy Spirit:"

Your statement above is  not clear...

Not sure what you want to communicate...

I understand  that Jesus Christ is the son of God...

That makes the Heavenly Father his Father...

When Jesus was about twelve years old he confronted Joseph in the presence of his mother and told him that I know your secret that you are my adopted father and that I am not your Son...

By this we learn that Joseph and his mother were telling him and were treating him the same way as they treated his brothers...that they had kept from him his miraculous birth...not only for him, but also from anyone else...

The day Jesus told Joseph..."don't you know that I must do my Father's business...

We can see their surprise...Jesus knew a well kept secret...they said "who told you those things...or how do you know...

They asked him to keep it a secret if not they would be in danger from their community and to carry on under their care...

Wondering when the disciples got to know all those things about his miraculous birth and the events that followed...

"Indeed, but in Jesus Christ is the Father and Holy Spirit:"

How can you say the above statement???

Jesus had a spiritual guidance from the Heavenly Father...if you noticed I keep saying "the Heavenly Father " for clarity I am very specific...

He also must have Angels to oversee his growth and teach him...we do not have an account from Jesus about those experiences and we leave it at that...

Is his privacy...no need to make facts about him from our own and others experiences...

Jesus at that age had come to understand without any one telling him about something as to who he really was and that he had a mission from the Heavenly Father to fulfilled...

Later just before the Cross and before the as ascension. ..Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit that comes from the Heavenly Father...in his name after the Cross and his resurrection and his ascension...as the Holy Spirit will testify to those things about Jesus...

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit as it was at the day of Penticost had never been on earth before...

We can relate to that without confusing our self....

Jesus knew about the Holy Spirit in the  "old testament " so to speak...

But he made clear to understand that the Holy Spirit that the Father will sent in his name...is not the same is the Holy Spirit of the Father and the time Jesus was saying those things the Holy Spirit of the Father was still held "in Heaven " till the day of Penticost...

Jesus when he was saying those things this Holy Spirit of the Father was not on earth yet as he was saying those things before the day of Penticost..

Jesus said is not hear yet...he did not say that is with me but not with you...

This help us to understand and we may say that ...that the Holy Spirit that descended to Jesus from Heaven on the time of his baptism is not the same one...

It was from the Heavenly Father who is in Heaven and has never left Heaven to his Son...specifically for him only...Jesus had the Holy Spirit from birth...even from before that..from his mother 's womb...

Jesus was in the Life all the time...before it became know to him...it was revealed to him...by his Spiritual guidance from the Father...

Jesus said that the Heavenly Father will sent this Holy Spirit in his "name"...after the Cross and more specific after his ascension...

The Holy Spirit of Penticost is among other things testifying to us that the things about Jesus Christ are truth...

Is the Heavenly Father 's witness in Spirit form that Jesus is from the Heavenly Father and he is ascended in Heaven and he Rules...that Jesus Christ is all in all...the Heavenly Father gave us Jesus Christ as our Lord and as our Judge as he made him the Judge of all the world...so we know that the Heavenly Father has given us Jesus Christ as our Patriarch...we are born to him spiritually when we believe in him...this also means that the Heavenly Father is our Grandfather...or our Father because of Jesus Christ...

It is by the adaptation of Jesus Christ...

The Heavenly Father has only children through Jesus Christ...

This is easily understood that the Heavenly Father had no children...he was without any children...before The Cross...

This why Jesus Christ said that "the Heavenly Father will revealed himself to the world only through Jesus Christ...only he made him known to us....

Only Jesus knew him and no one else...before him...Jesus Christ take us to the Father...

We fellowship with his Spirit because we are his children in Jesus Christ...

Jesus Christ promised to his disciples that in due time they will hear the voice of the Heavenly Father in their heart...

If you learn to follow my guidance then not only me but also the Father will come and make our abode in your heart...and by this we will know when that has happened...when we hear or Jesus Christ let us experienced to hear the voice of the Heavenly Father in our heart...that does not mean that the Heavenly Father will tell anything to anyone...he has given us Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit for that...but when we will experienced that as Jesus said to the disciples then we will know in that special way that Jesus and the Heavenly Father are in the same camp...when we hear the Father talking with Jesus Christ...in a way Jesus is is our Lord and the Heavenly Father has given that to Jesus Christ...to be for us anything we need...look into Jesus Christ...Ask and expect everything from Jesus Christ...

The Heavenly Father does not tell Jesus Christ what to do....

He has given him the rulership made him our king and our source...it please the Heavenly Father to do that...

Jesus is all we need...we call upon his name...Jesus Christ rules...

Edited July 16, 2020 by Your closest friendnt

[Fidei Defensor]

13 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

"Indeed, but in Jesus Christ is the Father and Holy Spirit:"

Your statement above is  not clear...

Not sure what you want to communicate...

I understand  that Jesus Christ is the son of God...

That makes the Heavenly Father his Father...

When Jesus was about twelve years old he confronted Joseph in the presence of his mother and told him that I know your secret that you are my adopted father and that I am not your Son...

By this we learn that Joseph and his mother were telling him and were treating him the same way as they treated his brothers...that they had kept from him his miraculous birth...not only for him, but also from anyone else...

The day Jesus told Joseph..."don't you know that I must do my Father's business...

We can see their surprise...Jesus knew a well kept secret...they said "who told you those things...or how do you know...

They asked him to keep it a secret if not they would be in danger from their community and to carry on under their care...

Wondering when the disciples got to know all those things about his miraculous birth and the events that followed...

"Indeed, but in Jesus Christ is the Father and Holy Spirit:"

How can you say the above statement???

Jesus had a spiritual guidance from the Heavenly Father...if you noticed I keep saying "the Heavenly Father " for clarity I am very specific...

He also must have Angels to oversee his growth and teach him...we do not have an account from Jesus about those experiences and we leave it at that...

Is his privacy...no need to make facts about him from our own and others experiences...

Jesus at that age had come to understand without any one telling him about something as to who he really was and that he had a mission from the Heavenly Father to fulfilled...

Later just before the Cross and before the as ascension. ..Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit that comes from the Heavenly Father...in his name after the Cross and his resurrection and his ascension...as the Holy Spirit will testify to those things about Jesus...

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit as it was at the day of Penticost had never been on earth before...

We can relate to that without confusing our self....

Jesus knew about the Holy Spirit in the  "old testament " so to speak...

But he made clear to understand that the Holy Spirit that the Father will sent in his name...is not the same is the Holy Spirit of the Father and the time Jesus was saying those things the Holy Spirit of the Father was still held "in Heaven " till the day of Penticost...

Jesus when he was saying those things this Holy Spirit of the Father was not on earth yet as he was saying those things before the day of Penticost..

Jesus said is not hear yet...he did not say that is with me but not with you...

This help us to understand and we may say that ...that the Holy Spirit that descended to Jesus from Heaven on the time of his baptism is not the same one...

It was from the Heavenly Father who is in Heaven and has never left Heaven to his Son...specifically for him only...Jesus had the Holy Spirit from birth...even from before that..from his mother 's womb...

Jesus was in the Life all the time...before it became know to him...it was revealed to him...by his Spiritual guidance from the Father...

Jesus said that the Heavenly Father will sent this Holy Spirit in his "name"...after the Cross and more specific after his ascension...

The Holy Spirit of Penticost is among other things testifying to us that the things about Jesus Christ are truth...

Is the Heavenly Father 's witness in Spirit form that Jesus is from the Heavenly Father and he is ascended in Heaven and he Rules...that Jesus Christ is all in all...the Heavenly Father gave us Jesus Christ as our Lord and as our Judge as he made him the Judge of all the world...so we know that the Heavenly Father has given us Jesus Christ as our Patriarch...we are born to him spiritually when we believe in him...this also means that the Heavenly Father is our Grandfather...or our Father because of Jesus Christ...

It is by the adaptation of Jesus Christ...

The Heavenly Father has only children through Jesus Christ...

This is easily understood that the Heavenly Father had no children...he was without any children...before The Cross...

This why Jesus Christ said that "the Heavenly Father will revealed himself to the world only through Jesus Christ...only he made him known to us....

Only Jesus knew him and no one else...before him...Jesus Christ take us to the Father...

We fellowship with his Spirit because we are his children in Jesus Christ...

Jesus Christ promised to his disciples that in due time they will hear the voice of the Heavenly Father in their heart...

If you learn to follow my guidance then not only me but also the Father will come and make our abode in your heart...and by this we will know when that has happened...when we hear or Jesus Christ let us experienced to hear the voice of the Heavenly Father in our heart...that does not mean that the Heavenly Father will tell anything to anyone...he has given us Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit for that...but when we will experienced that as Jesus said to the disciples then we will know in that special way that Jesus and the Heavenly Father are in the same camp...when we hear the Father talking with Jesus Christ...in a way Jesus is is our Lord and the Heavenly Father has given that to Jesus Christ...to be for us anything we need...look into Jesus Christ...Ask and expect everything from Jesus Christ...

The Heavenly Father does not tell Jesus Christ what to do....

He has given him the rulership made him our king and our source...it please the Heavenly Father to do that...

Jesus is all we need...we call upon his name...Jesus Christ rules...

My point is the whole Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is there in Christ, even as He dies on the cross. God does not severe himself, what I mean is Jesus didn’t disconnect from Father and Holy Spirit, but both Father and Spirit were in Him and He in Them. Yes the Distinct Person of the Son, Jesus Christ died for us, but He only remains the Son if Co-Substantial, and One Substance with God the Father and Holy Spirit; meaning Christ never wasn’t part of the Trinity for one moment on earth or heaven, He remains connected, one essence, and one substance with the Father (John 10:30) and Holy Spirit (John 14:26, 15:26. Yes, Jesus is the one who in body died on the cross for all our sins and rose from the dead, but at the same time He never ceased being One essence, substance, and one with The Father and Spirit. To cover sin for all time, Jesus by right had to remain One with God the Father and God The Holy Spirit; because God is Triune, and thus only the Trinity can cover sin for all time. And do not forget God is One, “The Lord God He is One,” and so Jesus to be God has to be One God, and that One God is made up of Three Persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Anyone who tries to totally split Jesus off from Father or Spirit is attacking God being One and God being Triune. 

It was Jesus The Son of God and God Incarnate who died for our sins, but if you take His word for it, He and Father are in each other (John 14, John 17:20-23, John 10:30), and Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 14:26, 15:26) which means He proceeds from the Father who is in Christ and from Christ because the Father is in Christ (John 14:9-11, John 17:20-23). This supports the Filoque.  

One more Go at this. 

Father: Jesus and Holy Spirit in Him and He in Them. 

Jesus/ Son: Father and Holy Spirit in Him and He in them. 

Holy Spirit: Father and Jesus in Him and He in them. 

Each Person of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit has a distinct personality, role, and etc, “And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:22).. Of the Three, Jesus came, He became flesh. But the Father and Spirit are in Him and He in them. 

Of the Three Persons, Christ was sent, but He is One with the Father and Holy Spirit. The Distinct Person of Jesus is unique, He came, but He is One with the Father and Spirit, “Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father” (John 14:9). 

If is hard to express God is One in Three, and Three Distinct Persons who have unique personalities, and etc. i coukd try to explain in a parable, but I dare not risk deviating from Scripture.  

[Your closest friendnt]

5 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

My point is the whole Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is there in Christ, even as He dies on the cross. God does not severe himself, what I mean is Jesus didn’t disconnect from Father and Holy Spirit, but both Father and Spirit were in Him and He in Them. Yes the Distinct Person of the Son, Jesus Christ died for us, but He only remains the Son if Co-Substantial, and One Substance with God the Father and Holy Spirit; meaning Christ never wasn’t part of the Trinity for one moment on earth or heaven, He remains connected, one essence, and one substance with the Father (John 10:30) and Holy Spirit (John 14:26, 15:26. Yes, Jesus is the one who in body died on the cross for all our sins and rose from the dead, but at the same time He never ceased being One essence, substance, and one with The Father and Spirit. To cover sin for all time, Jesus by right had to remain One with God the Father and God The Holy Spirit; because God is Triune, and thus only the Trinity can cover sin for all time. And do not forget God is One, “The Lord God He is One,” and so Jesus to be God has to be One God, and that One God is made up of Three Persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Anyone who tries to totally split Jesus off from Father or Spirit is attacking God being One and God being Triune. 

It was Jesus The Son of God and God Incarnate who died for our sins, but if you take His word for it, He and Father are in each other (John 14, John 17:20-23, John 10:30), and Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 14:26, 15:26) which means He proceeds from the Father who is in Christ and from Christ because the Father is in Christ (John 14:9-11, John 17:20-23). This supports the Filoque.  

One more Go at this. 

Father: Jesus and Holy Spirit in Him and He in Them. 

Jesus/ Son: Father and Holy Spirit in Him and He in them. 

Holy Spirit: Father and Jesus in Him and He in them. 

Each Person of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit has a distinct personality, role, and etc, “And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:22).. Of the Three, Jesus came, He became flesh. But the Father and Spirit are in Him and He in them. 

Of the Three Persons, Christ was sent, but He is One with the Father and Holy Spirit. The Distinct Person of Jesus is unique, He came, but He is One with the Father and Spirit, “Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father” (John 14:9). 

If is hard to express God is One in Three, and Three Distinct Persons who have unique personalities, and etc. i coukd try to explain in a parable, but I dare not risk deviating from Scripture.  

You have deviate from scriptures with your own statements...

We understand about the Heavenly Father...as Jesus Christ told us a lot about him...

And we understand about the Holy Spirit...that flows from the Heavenly Father and came to the children of Jesus Christ...to the children who are born from above the children of the Heavenly Father...the redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ...

The Holy Spirit came fifty days after the Cross...Jesus had ascended and can only come after Jesus Christ ascension...

Do you have scriptures or anything from the Holy Fathers to the contrary...

 

[Fidei Defensor]

27 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The Holy Spirit came fifty days after the Cross...Jesus had ascended and can only come after Jesus Christ ascension...

Do you have scriptures or anything from the Holy Fathers to the contrary...

 

The Holy Spirit came twice before Pentacost:  

Baptism of Jesus

“Jesus was baptized with water, and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased” (Luke 3:22) 

Resurrection of Jesus

“Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”(And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.(D)” (John 20:21-22) 

At Pentecost: 

“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about” (Acts 1:4). 

“When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.” (Acts 2:1-4). 

So what do you make of this? 

John 20:21-22 and Acts 2:1-4 say the apostles recieved The Holy Spirit. John has it at Christ’s Ressurection and Before His Ascension, and Acts 2 has it after the Ascension. I know both passages can be reconciled and are both true.  

I think the clearest way to recomcile the two passages is to focus on that Pentecost was The Holy Spirit filling them and giving them the power gifts (1 Corinthians 12:4-11). Wheras John 20:20-22 is the apostles receiving (λαμβάνω, lambanó, getting,  actively lay hold of) The Holy Spirit.  So Pentacost was getting the power of God in the Gifts like tongues. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

I want to say, The Doctrine of The Trinity is meant to humble us. We are suppose to experiance moments when trying to fathom The Three and Oneness of God a sense of dizziness, weakness, mental exasperation, and humbling, because He is The Creator and we the Creation. If you could fully understand God, you’d be God. There is a level of mystery to God’s Nature, and we Trust and believe and know The Doctrine of the Trinity is true; that God is indeed One God in Three Persons of the Father, Son (Jesus) and Holy Spirit, Blessed Trinity. 

[Your closest friendnt]

On 7/14/2020 at 11:49 PM, Fidei Defensor said:

Indeed, but in Jesus Christ is the Father and Holy Spirit: 

“See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily/ For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Colossians 2:8-9) 

“For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.” (Colossians 1:19-20) 

Yes Jesus is the Distinct Person of the Son, but also at all times One with the Father and Holy Spirit: 

“Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.” (John 14:11) 

“Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending youAnd when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” (John 20:21-22) 

The Son died for our sins, but He never was not part of the Father and Spirit; They are One God in Thewe Peeaona, Blessed Trinity. 

Your statement as in the first paragraph above.

"Indeed, but in Jesus Christ is the Father and Holy Spirit:"

I have noticed that you have ommited the article "the" and just wrote "Holy Spirit "...

This is not just bad grammar, it shows the struggle within...

An invitation; why do not come back to our discussion clean from that and we can continue our conversation free from that stronghold...

You do not need to live with something like that...that causes fear and then that fear controls...a person not to go out of that boundaries or fence.  

Why do you have to set this boundary to your self...what are you being afraid that you will lose if you have said: "the Holy Spirit ".

*******

Consider what Paul was saying: 

"Have you received "the Holy Spirit " after you believed...

 

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Your statement as in the first paragraph above.

"Indeed, but in Jesus Christ is the Father and Holy Spirit:"

I have noticed that you have ommited the article "the" and just wrote "Holy Spirit "...

This is not just bad grammar, it shows the struggle within...

An invitation; why do not come back to our discussion clean from that and we can continue our conversation free from that stronghold...

You do not need to live with something like that...that causes fear and then that fear controls...a person not to go out of that boundaries or fence.  

Why do you have to set this boundary to your self...what are you being afraid that you will lose if you have said: "the Holy Spirit ".

*******

Consider what Paul was saying: 

"Have you received "the Holy Spirit " after you believed...

 

You have jumped to a conclusion sir, its a typo.. I meant The Holy Spirit. 

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Your statement as in the first paragraph above.

"Indeed, but in Jesus Christ is the Father and Holy Spirit:"

I have noticed that you have ommited the article "the" and just wrote "Holy Spirit "...

This is not just bad grammar, it shows the struggle within...

An invitation; why do not come back to our discussion clean from that and we can continue our conversation free from that stronghold...

You do not need to live with something like that...that causes fear and then that fear controls...a person not to go out of that boundaries or fence.  

Why do you have to set this boundary to your self...what are you being afraid that you will lose if you have said: "the Holy Spirit ".

*******

Consider what Paul was saying: 

"Have you received "the Holy Spirit " after you believed...

 

“While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus.There he found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied. Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues  and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.” (Acts 19:1-7). 

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Your statement as in the first paragraph above.

"Indeed, but in Jesus Christ is the Father and Holy Spirit:"

I have noticed that you have ommited the article "the" and just wrote "Holy Spirit "...

This is not just bad grammar, it shows the struggle within...

An invitation; why do not come back to our discussion clean from that and we can continue our conversation free from that stronghold...

You do not need to live with something like that...that causes fear and then that fear controls...a person not to go out of that boundaries or fence.  

Why do you have to set this boundary to your self...what are you being afraid that you will lose if you have said: "the Holy Spirit ".

*******

Consider what Paul was saying: 

"Have you received "the Holy Spirit " after you believed...

 

I repost for some reason...there suggestions in this post that can not easily understood they are hidden between the lines...

Some needs to have and asks questions to bring them to light...

So I am glad for your response...as 

" I don't get it"...

I am glad to see this quality in you...Jesus is looking for people with this kind of qualities, so he can or able to work with them. That they are not acting all the time that they know everything in all matters...

The issue at hand was: 

Can a distinction be made between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost...

To look in similarities and differences and something more ...as some of the reason why must be differences...

 

[Fidei Defensor]

4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I repost for some reason...there suggestions in this post that can not easily understood they are hidden between the lines...

Some needs to have and asks questions to bring them to light...

So I am glad for your response...as 

" I don't get it"...

I am glad to see this quality in you...Jesus is looking for people with this kind of qualities, so he can or able to work with them. That they are not acting all the time that they know everything in all matters...

The issue at hand was: 

Can a distinction be made between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost...

To look in similarities and differences and something more ...as some of the reason why must be differences...

 

What are you claiming I don’t get? Can you clarify? Are you referring to my post on the Trinity humbling us? 

Holy Ghost is the Old English for Holy Spirit. Back then ghost was used more commonly, but ghost and spirit use to be in Kimg James’ days interchangable synonyms.  Now ghost means this: the soul of a dead person, a disembodied spirit imagined, usually as a vague, shadowy or evanescent form, as wandering among or haunting living persons.” (Dictionary.com). So we can’t use ghost, instead we say Holy Spirit: “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth” (John 4:24).