JERUSALEM IS FALLING

[abcdef]

16 hours ago, Sister said:

 Zechariah 14:4   And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Symbolic imagery and not literal.

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, abcdef said:

Jesus will never set foot on this planet again.

Zechariah 14:4
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Acts 1:
9 After saying this, he was taken up into a cloud while they were watching, and they could no longer see him. 10 As they strained to see him rising into heaven, two white-robed men suddenly stood among them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why are you standing here staring into heaven? Jesus has been taken from you into heaven, but someday he will return from heaven in the same way you saw him go!”

 

Both verses are literal, and not symbolic. Why is this so difficult to believe? He will sent up His 1000 year reign and will reign for 1000 years. Why is this more difficult to believe than John 3:16?

Edited March 22, 2021 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, abcdef said:

Anyone who sees the face of Jesus in His glory will die. Ex 33:20.

Why didn't the disciples die during the 40 days before He ascended? Why didn't the 500 die? Why didn't all those who saw Him ascend die? The truth is, over 500 saw Him and did not die.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

There will be a charismatic "Cursed" leader. He will rally the "Cursed" to fight to install their ways throughout the world. Having everyone bow down to the stone. But in reality the charismatic one will have been set up by the office of the anti-Christ. But mainstream Christianity will be led to believe that the charismatic one is "the" anti-Christ, and that the wars being fought against him are those wars against the beast spoken of in Daniel.
During the great war, the person in the office of the anti-Christ will seem to be killed by the charismatic leaders' forces. .. Then something spectacular and world changing will happen to seemingly heal him from death, and then he will begin to speak fantastical things about what is in heaven. [Rev 13:3-6] With mainstream Christianity being led to think of the charismatic one as "the" anti-Christ, when the true anti-Christ is wounded and healed he will seem to be a martyr and what happens to him, his seeming healing, will seem to be from God.
The wounded/healed one, the real anti-Christ, will be saying fantastical things about what is in heaven, and will announce that 'Jesus' would arrive soon. In the course of time seeming 'Jesus' will arrive and will confirm and glorify the wounded/healed person.
Together they will put an end to the war started by the charismatic one, and thereby seem to be saviors.

 

[abcdef]

On 3/21/2021 at 12:58 PM, Eternally Gratefull said:

Jesus said the tribulation would start after the abomination in f desolation f Dan 9

The trib did start after the AoD.

The trib was when Jerusalem fell in 70 AD and the time after that, until 1967.

70 AD-1967.

 

On 3/21/2021 at 12:58 PM, Eternally Gratefull said:

that was to occur in the middle of the 70th week, 

Do you have a scripture to support this?

 

On 3/21/2021 at 12:58 PM, Eternally Gratefull said:

it also was said to be greater than any tribulation before or after (WW1 plus WW2 made 70 Ad look like a picnic,

The trib period, 70 AD -1967, did include WW 1 & 2. If the time had not been shortened, no flesh of the elect Israel would have been saved, (Matt 24:22).

The time of the trib centers on the people of Israel among the gentile nations, not the planet.

 

On 3/21/2021 at 12:58 PM, Eternally Gratefull said:

also many f the things of the final beast have yet to occure. 

The trib period is over, 70 AD-1967.

The time period that the beast nation rules over the people of Israel is over.

The time of the woman of Rev 12, in the wilderness is over, she has returned home to Jerusalem.

The winds of the 6th trumpet have already begun to blow across the Euphrates towards Jerusalem. 

The dragon, beast, and false prophet have ALREADY deceived the kings of the east into attacking Jerusalem, Rev 16.

 

On 3/21/2021 at 12:58 PM, Eternally Gratefull said:

Can you explain these things?

The 7 times are not 7 years. The 7 times are the same time period as the statue in Dan. 2.

The time period of the statue (the times of the gentiles), is divided into 2 parts.

The first 3 1/2 times is from Babylon until the great scattering of the 70 AD ish period, Dan. 12:7.

The second 3 1/2 times, is from 70 AD until 1967.

It is the second 3 1/2 times that is considered in Dan. 7, Rev., and Matt 24, generally spoken of as the trib period.

[abcdef]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Zechariah 14:4
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Jesus has already stepped on the mount in 33 AD ish.

Then the mountain, the people Israel in Jerusalem Dan. 9:16, were carried away captive into the gentile nations.

The valley escape of the people was those who fled the 70 AD destruction. 

 

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Acts 1:
9 After saying this, he was taken up into a cloud while they were watching, and they could no longer see him. 10 As they strained to see him rising into heaven, two white-robed men suddenly stood among them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why are you standing here staring into heaven? Jesus has been taken from you into heaven, but someday he will return from heaven in the same way you saw him go!”

The apostles will see Him at the resur/rapt when He comes for the kingdom.

 

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Both verses are literal, and not symbolic.

There are too many conflicts if they are literal.

If Zech 14 is Jesus returning to save Jerusalem, why are the people running away into the gentile nations?

 

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Why is this so difficult to believe?

Why is it so difficult to believe that Zech 14 already happened in the 70 AD time period?

Did someone teach you that it was literal, and never questioned the possibility that it was talking about 70 AD?

 

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

He will sent up His 1000 year reign and will reign for 1000 years. Why is this more difficult to believe than John 3:16?

We are at the end of the mill period right now.

Jerusalem is already surrounded and the 2nd resurrection is about to take place, Rev 20.

[abcdef]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Why didn't the disciples die during the 40 days before He ascended? Why didn't the 500 die? Why didn't all those who saw Him ascend die? The truth is, over 500 saw Him and did not die.

They didn't die because Jesus was not revealed to them in His glory.

One example would be Paul/Saul on the road to Damascus. He was blinded by the light of Jesus glory. But Paul did not see the Face of Jesus at that time. Acts 9:3-9.

Another example would be Moses who was not allowed to see the face of Jesus, but did see His backside. Moses had to wear a veil to cover His face from  the people. Ex 33:17-23.

No one, no one, no one can see the face of Jesus in His glory of the Father and live.

So He won't be in planet earth Jerusalem ruling, because everyone on planet earth would be killed.

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, abcdef said:

They didn't die because Jesus was not revealed to them in His glory.

One example would be Paul/Saul on the road to Damascus. He was blinded by the light of Jesus glory. But Paul did not see the Face of Jesus at that time. Acts 9:3-9.

Another example would be Moses who was not allowed to see the face of Jesus, but did see His backside. Moses had to wear a veil to cover His face from  the people. Ex 33:17-23.

No one, no one, no one can see the face of Jesus in His glory of the Father and live.

So He won't be in planet earth Jerusalem ruling, because everyone on planet earth would be killed.

I would rather think the scriptures true, and He will not display His glory when being seen in Jerusalem - if indeed if people see Him and His glory they die. I cannot tear Rev. 20 out of my bible. I think you are trying to understand this with human reasoning rather than faith in the written word of God.

[abcdef]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I would rather think the scriptures true, and He will not display His glory when being seen in Jerusalem

Like a lamp in the living room? On/off, on off? And where will He go when His glory goes on again? Back to heaven? Back and forth from planet earth to heaven?

Sit down and really think about what you are saying here. We are talking about the presence of God and the unspeakable power of His glory.

I believe that once it is revealed to us at the resur/rapt, that we will eternally be in His glory with Him. If Jesus withdraws His glory so that living people can see Him, then He would be also hiding His glory from His saints and His throne. 

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

- if indeed if people see Him and His glory they die.

Ex 33:17-23, Read it, think about it.

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I cannot tear Rev. 20 out of my bible.

1. The Revelation is not one continual time line.

There is a break in the time line between ch 19 and 20, so that the time line begins again.

It begins again at the resurrection of Jesus and the OT saints in 33 AD, the first resurrection.  

The OT saints live and rule from heaven during the time of the Pentecost kingdom/church on planet earth, which started in 33AD and is the millennium period. The 1000 years is not literal, but symbolic of the church/kingdom we are in right now. We are at the very end where Jerusalem is surrounded.

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2. There are only 2 resurrections, 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24 and John 5:25-29.

The first one was Jesus and the OT saints. They are seen in heaven with Jesus and John when John was taken through the door in the 85-96 AD ish time period. They are the ones that rule with Jesus from heaven. ( John the Baptist, beheaded) No where in Rev 20 does it say that the saints rule from planet earth.

The second resurrection is at His coming for the kingdom at the resur/rapt.

That is it! 2 only! Not 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 as some teach. 

The mislabeling of the resurrections in Rev 20 as led some to believe that these are actually the 6th and 7th resurrections. But it can't be so.

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3. The concept of the dragon has not been understood. The dragon has power through people.

In this case, his power is described as a dragon Rev 20:2. The identity of the dragon is shown in the description of the dragon in Rev 12:3. The dragon/beast is a nation/people who tried to kill Jesus when He was born. 

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4. The planet is not purified and turned into a sinless Garden of Eden.

This comes from misunderstanding the scriptures that apply to this period. Usually the scriptures are showing the relationships under to Pentecost/gift of the indwelling of the HS, kingdom. Acts 2:38 

But there is absolutely nothing in Rev 20 to indicate this happens. 

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I think you are trying to understand this with human reasoning rather than faith in the written word of God.

Well, lets talk about it. 

[Biblican]

On 3/21/2021 at 10:15 PM, abcdef said:

Zech 14:8, This we agree on.

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When did the waters of the Holy Spirit begin to flow from Jerusalem? Wasn't it when the Pentecost kingdom began?

Perhaps you are still thinking that the "living waters" are turned into some kind of material waters like the oceans, or are associating them with material waters.

The living waters of God's love and continual blessings begin at God's throne and the river of life flows out to all creation. Without this continual flow, all creation would die.

The living Holy Spirit waters flow through God's Word, which flows through Israel, to the souls of people and brings eternal life, the gospel.

There are several places where the waters in the prophetic imagery that tell us that sometimes the waters are people. Rev 17:15, Isa 8:5-8.

So the seas that the living waters flow to could be imagery of the Holy Spirit Pentecost gospel kingdom flowing to the gentile nations, beginning in the 37 AD ish period.

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Jesus already stepped on the mount in 33 AD. After that time the prophecy concerning Zech 14:1-2, comes to pass in 70 AD.

The holy mountain is Jerusalem Dan 9:16.

In the 70 AD time period, when Jerusalem falls, there are 3 groups.

1. Those who are killed. (they are not cut off from the city and are left there.)

2. Those who are taken as slaves.

3. Those who flee.

The dividing of the mount shows #2, the slaves from Jerusalem being taken away into the gentile nations.

Those who flee (v 5) through the valley are those who ran from the 70 AD destruction. They believed what Jesus said.

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If this is Jesus coming to save Jerusalem in the future, why are the people running away from Jesus on the mount into the gentile nations?

They would be running towards Jesus for safety.

Wouldn't Jesus be able to stop a war and eliminate His enemies in an instant?

But this is not what these verses Zech 14:1-5, are showing.

 

Jesus  will not return to planet earth except to take possession of the kingdom.

Any one who sees the face of Jesus in His glory will die, Ex 33:20.

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The idea that Jesus will "renew" the planet earth is not supported by scripture.

The images used to support this concept are usually describing the relationship between Jesus, the indwelling gift of the Holy Spirit Pentecost kingdom, and the souls of people during the time of the kingdom on planet earth.

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The earth, seas, rivers, and heavens of the trumpets and vials, are images of the creation Rev 14:7.

The trumpets apply to the unbelieving broken branches of Israel, who suffer the withdrawing of God's blessings of protection after 70 AD.

The vials apply to the people of the beast nation, also after 70 AD.

Both are showing the result of the rejection of the Pentecost gospel kingdom by the souls of people, who should know better, putting guilt on their souls.

The result of this rejection is the blessing flow from the throne of God and the river of life becomes polluted with the blood of Israel and their souls are tormented.

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It might be explained like this,

Since the flow of blessings, that leads to a gospel relationship with God/Jesus and eternal life, flows through Israel, when you diminish Israel, you diminish the knowledge that leads to eternal life.

So even though these people who kill Israel, may be seeking eternal life, they are killing the very people who can bring the knowledge of a living relationship with Jesus/God to them.

That is, the blood from the murders, corrupts the flow of blessings from God's throne.

The Rev 14:7 creation, earth, seas, rivers, and heavens are the complete creation. When the consequences of the sins are effected, there is no place to escape from them, they include all creation. (trumpets/vials) Where ever the people of Israel and the beast nation are.

 

You are not correlating scripture properly. Before Jesus returns Israel goes into another captivity and is scattered again Zech. 14:1,2. This correlates with the prophecies in Ezekiel where God brings His judgments upon Israel. She is called Sodom and Egypt in the latter days. Jesus returns and rescues her in Zech. 14. And He rules in Jerusalem for 1000 years according to John's prophecy. That is when the planet is supernaturally restored. We will be able to see Jesus' face who is the image of God, you are misinterpreting Exodus 33:20. We can't see the Father's face, that's why He operates through an image, just as He did when He talked with Abraham in Genesis 18. The rest of it, we will will have to agree to disagree.