Why can’t the CHURCH be in part of the 70th week?

[R. Hartono]

The wise virgins taken is clearly the rapture n the foolish virgins left behind in tribulation n screamed "Lord Loord".

Its so easily explained.

Edited September 29, 2020 by R. Hartono

[JohnD]

All three eschatological camps are correct when the 70th Week of Daniel is correctly interpreted:

 

The 70th Week of Daniel is NOT one 7 year tribulation but a 7 year period of two 3.5 year tribulations:

the believer's tribulation (shown above)

followed by the great tribulation (also shown above).

So the taking out of the Church (rapture) will take place:\

PRE great tribulation

MID 70th Week of Daniel

POST believer's tribulation.

P.S. this is not traditional Mid-Trib eschatology (which believes the entire 70th Week of Daniel is one  7 year tribulation).

[A Christian 1985]

 

Edited by Omegaman 3.0 - Deleted video and Amazon link.
Sorry  A Christian 1985, we do not allow videos here, except in the video area of the forums, and we do not allow promoting of things for sale.

Also, I should point out, that you are off topic.

I see now, that you have spent considerable time doing this sort of promotion, I am sorry that I did not notice it earlier. Now I will look for other incidents of this behavior, and delete all of those posts. I ask that your refrain from this in the future. You are welcome to engage others in discussion, but this sort of promotion will not fly. Continuing to do so, will lead to your privileges being suspended.

 

[R. Hartono]

On 10/2/2020 at 4:56 PM, JohnD said:

All three eschatological camps are correct when the 70th Week of Daniel is correctly interpreted:

 

The 70th Week of Daniel is NOT one 7 year tribulation but a 7 year period of two 3.5 year tribulations:

the believer's tribulation (shown above)

followed by the great tribulation (also shown above).

So the taking out of the Church (rapture) will take place:\

PRE great tribulation

MID 70th Week of Daniel

POST believer's tribulation.

P.S. this is not traditional Mid-Trib eschatology (which believes the entire 70th Week of Daniel is one  7 year tribulation).

The 1st half of GT is such horror as the 2nd half but the Mark of the beast is not yet forced to the world as the 2 Witnesses of Moses n Elijah are still alive n resist antichrist.

However the 7 trumpets of judgment Will be blown until the 5th where the beast of bottomless pit is released n killed the 2 Witnesses.

After that the AOD takes place which begins the 2 nd half of GT. The 144000 remains until they welcome Jesus 2nd coming on Mt Zion.

Edited October 26, 2020 by R. Hartono

[R. Hartono]

The 70th week of the GT is the fullness of gentiles where God return his attention to the Jews by appointing n sending the 2 witnesses n seal the 144000 literal Hebrew as servant of God to replace the church to spread Gospel with severe punishment.

Its the OT style when God send Hebrew prophets like Jonah, n in this situation is Moses n Elijah.

[Electric Earth]

On 9/3/2020 at 4:13 AM, Spock said:

This question is for all my pre trib friends.  I really want to believe in the pre trib doctrine, but I need a few questions answered. This is a big one.

I hear so many pre tribbers say Daniels 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel 9 is only meant for Israel and Daniel’s people (Jews).  And they rightfully cite Daniel 9:24, which says....“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression and to put an end totsin,...”

Okay, I get that, I really do.....but, where does it say in the Word that the Church can’t also be involved in even a  part of this 490 years?  Jew and Gentile together is not uncommon, is it? Obviously, the only chance they can be intermingled with Jews is in the last week, week 70, seeing that week 69 ended at probably Jesus’ baptism (when he was anointed).  
 

Pre tribbers say the rapture has to occur BEFORE the week begins......but all I want is some solid confirmation not from what you think but from what is written. Show me why this is so!  
 

Consider this...do you believe the New Covenant was written for the Church? Most do believe such to be so, but look at what Jeremiah says in Jeremiah 31....“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. 33For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD:”

So, even though Jeremiah said the New Covenant was for Israel, many in the church believe it is also for them. So why can’t the Church also be present And intermingled with Jews in at least some part of the first half of Daniel’s 70th week... Before the Great Tribulation begins?  Also, most agree we are presently in the CHURCH AGE from the time Christ ascended till now, right?  But the last time I looked out my window or drive down the street, I see plenty of Jews everywhere. Jew+Gentile intermingling during the Church Age.  So again, why can’t Jew +Gentile intermingle a little in Daniel’s 70th week? 

If you believe there are other reasons the church can’t be in the first half of the week, for now, please disregard these other reasons because i just want to know, do you believe the church can’t be in any part of Daniels week because it is only for Israel and Jews, and not the church....and on what basis do you hold this belief? 
 

thanks for replying. I’m watching and excited to learn,

spock 

First of all, the holy ones are raised to heaven AFTER the seven year tribulation period. The Bible makes this abundantly clear at Matthew 24:29-31:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days... he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

There are numerous verses that say that the holy ones must endure persecution at the hands of the eighth king (Dan. 7:25; Rev. 13:5-7 etc). In fact, much of the denunciations pronounced by the prophets against ancient Jerusalem also apply in a similar way to modern-day "Jerusalem" - the Christian congregation, because of their apostasy from true Christianity. Modern-day fleshly Jews are NOT God's people and have no bearing on prophecy. They will not be restored to any position of favour with God since they were cast off when they, as a nation, rejected the Christ and their temple was ransacked. Individual Jews can still become Christians.

So, then, we know that the prophecy applied to the Jews and the rebuilding and subsequent desolation of their temple from Daniel 9:24-27. The seventieth week occured during the seven year Jewish War (66-73 CE) when Jerusalem was indeed rejected and the abomination (Roman army) desolated God's temple halfway through that seven year period in 70 CE:

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation."

But this final week has a dual fulfillment. We know this because Jesus referred to the prophecy in Daniel 9:27 as applying to the end times as well as to the ancient city of Jerusalem:

"The day is coming when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about—the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing in the Holy Place. (Reader, pay attention!)... For there will be greater anguish than at any time since the world began. And it will never be so great again. In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones." (Matt. 24:15-22).

"Reader pay attention!" There is a reason why Christ said those words. It is the second half of the week that God's people will be given into the hands of the Beast for a period of 1260 days, and "Jerusalem" (modern-day Christians) will be trampled underfoot (Rev. 11:2). According to Daniel 12:11, the desolation occurs 1290 days after the continual sacrifice (of public preaching work) ends. The public preaching work was halted due to coronavirus in March 2020. Count 1290 days from that point (which was the start of the seven year tribulation) and we reach October 2023. That is the time that the Great Tribulation will commence and the "two" witnesses will begin their prophesying in sackcloth as a way of mourning the desolation of the Christian congregation and God's earthly organization.

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Electric Earth

[Charlie744]

17 minutes ago, Electric Earth said:

First of all, the holy ones are raised to heaven AFTER the seven year tribulation period. The Bible makes this abundantly clear at Matthew 24:29-31:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days... he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

There are numerous verses that say that the holy ones must endure persecution at the hands of the eighth king (Dan. 7:25; Rev. 13:5-7 etc). In fact, much of the denunciations pronounced by the prophets against ancient Jerusalem also apply in a similar way to modern-day "Jerusalem" - the Christian congregation, because of their apostasy from true Christianity. Modern-day fleshly Jews are NOT God's people and have no bearing on prophecy. They will not be restored to any position of favour with God since they were cast off when they, as a nation, rejected the Christ and their temple was ransacked. Individual Jews can still become Christians.

So, then, we know that the prophecy applied to the Jews and the rebuilding and subsequent desolation of their temple from Daniel 9:24-27. The seventieth week occured during the seven year Jewish War (66-73 CE) when Jerusalem was indeed rejected and the abomination (Roman army) desolated God's temple halfway through that seven year period in 70 CE:

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation."

But this final week has a dual fulfillment. We know this because Jesus referred to the prophecy in Daniel 9:27 as applying to the end times as well as to the ancient city of Jerusalem:

"The day is coming when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about—the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing in the Holy Place. (Reader, pay attention!)... For there will be greater anguish than at any time since the world began. And it will never be so great again. In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones." (Matt. 24:15-22).

"Reader pay attention!" There is a reason why Christ said those words. It is the second half of the week that God's people will be given into the hands of the Beast for a period of 1260 days, and "Jerusalem" (modern-day Christians) will be trampled underfoot (Rev. 11:2). According to Daniel 12:11, the desolation occurs 1290 days after the continual sacrifice (of public preaching work) ends. The public preaching work was halted due to coronavirus in March 2020. Count 1290 days from that point (which was the start of the seven year tribulation) and we reach October 2023. That is the time that the Great Tribulation will commence and the "two" witnesses will begin their prophesying in sackcloth as a way of mourning the desolation of the Christian congregation and God's earthly organization.

 

The 70 weeks were given to Daniel representing the 3 continuous periods from the time they left Babylon unto the coming Messiah AND where He would be "cut off" in the "midst of the week".  The Messiah would fulfill all 6 requirements during His first coming.... including the one that states, "He will put an end to the prophecies".

Thanks, Charlie

[Electric Earth]

25 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

The 70 weeks were given to Daniel representing the 3 continuous periods from the time they left Babylon unto the coming Messiah AND where He would be "cut off" in the "midst of the week".  The Messiah would fulfill all 6 requirements during His first coming.... including the one that states, "He will put an end to the prophecies".

Thanks, Charlie

Not so. The prophecies did not end with Christ. You are actually saying that no more prophecies are to be fulfilled. That's absurd. It's like saying that the book of Revelation is irrelevant.

"But in the days when the seventh angel is about to blow his trumpet, the sacred secret that God declared as good news to his own slaves the prophets is indeed brought to a finish."

"And they said to me: “You must prophesy again about peoples and nations and tongues and many kings.”" (Rev. 10:7,11).

In fact, only ONE of the 6 requirements was fulfilled. This one: "to atone for their guilt."

The rest are for the last days:

"...to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

The rebellion of Jews (and modern-day Christians) was not finished when Christ first came. Sin was not ended for mankind (take a look around). Everlasting righteousness was not brought in (that can only happen at the start of the 1000 year reign), the vision and prophecy have not been confirmed and completed, and the Most Holy Place (in heaven) cannot be fully anointed until ALL the chosen ones receive the heavenly reward after the Great Tribulation.

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Electric Earth

[Charlie744]

5 minutes ago, Electric Earth said:

Not so. The prophecies did not end with Christ. You are actually saying that no more prophecies are to be fulfilled. That's absurd.

"But in the days when the seventh angel is about to blow his trumpet, the sacred secret that God declared as good news to his own slaves the prophets is indeed brought to a finish."

"And they said to me: “You must prophesy again about peoples and nations and tongues and many kings.”" (Rev. 10:7,11).

In fact, only ONE of the 6 requirements was fulfilled. This one: "to atone for their guilt."

The rest are for the last days:

"...to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

The rebellion of Jews (and modern-day Christians) was not finished when Christ first came. Sin was not ended for mankind (take a look around). Everlasting righteousness was not brought in (that can only happen at the start of the 1000 year reign), the vision and prophecy have not been confirmed and completed, and the Most Holy Place (in heaven) cannot be fully anointed until ALL the chosen ones receive the heavenly reward after the Great Tribulation.

 

Of course there are many more prophecies but Daniel is speaking entirely of the 70 weeks and what will be fulfilled by the Messiah. And ALL 6 were fulfilled and He completed His Covenant with man.

Charlie

[Electric Earth]

16 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Of course there are many more prophecies but Daniel is speaking entirely of the 70 weeks and what will be fulfilled by the Messiah. And ALL 6 were fulfilled and He completed His Covenant with man.

Charlie

If you read Daniel 9:24-27 you will see a description of events during the seventy weeks, including the desolation of the temple at the hands of the Roman army under Titus.

“A period of seventy sets of seven has been decreed for your people AND YOUR HOLY CITY"

That happened almost 40 years after Christ came. That alone proves that the 70th week was not fulfilled by Christ. I already explained the meaning of the six requirements. Do you know why verse 26 says

“After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing."

The death of Christ (after 69 weeks: 62+7) appeared to have "accomplished nothing" because there are 5 events yet to be fulfilled.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Electric Earth