Why can’t the CHURCH be in part of the 70th week?

[The Light]

On 9/5/2020 at 10:35 AM, Joulre2abba said:

Not all pre-tribbers believe exactly the same thing. The first 3.5 years is a time of relative peace between the Jews and all nations. It's not until the prince Cyrus type as I and also some Christians call him, gets a deadly wound and recovers, that he shows himself to be the fully evil antichrist. And that remaining 3.5 years is the Great Tribulation or, the wrath.

 

Cyrus was not a Godly man, but God used Him for His purpose. The is no prince of Cyrus type. There is a 7th king and he will be A king of the North. The 7th king is the prince that will come and cause the daily sacrifice to cease. He is AN antichrist and the rider of the white horse that will be given the stephanos crown, meaning he will become the leader of the U.N. It is the eight king that has the mortal wound of the sword and lives again. He was, and is not and will come again. So the deadly wound has already happened and he will rise again.

[Charlie744]

Light, just a quick question for you...

Why is it important for us (all of us) to concern ourselves with the “causing of the daily sacrifice to cease” mentioned in your latest post (above)?

Don’t you believe the Messiah’s death eliminated or done away with the sacrificial system (once and for all), AND made the Temple also unnecessary?

Therefore, even though the Jews still don’t accept Jesus as their Messiah AND they wish to re-establish the Sacrificial system and the rebuilding of the Temple, does that have any value or importance from God’s view? Why should we interpret an event that was fulfilled by Jesus as having to take place in the end times? 

Thank you, Charlie 

[Marilyn C]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 12:43 PM, Spock said:

This question is for all my pre trib friends.  I really want to believe in the pre trib doctrine, but I need a few questions answered. This is a big one.

I hear so many pre tribbers say Daniels 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel 9 is only meant for Israel and Daniel’s people (Jews).  And they rightfully cite Daniel 9:24, which says....“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression and to put an end totsin,...”

Okay, I get that, I really do.....but, where does it say in the Word that the Church can’t also be involved in even a  part of this 490 years?  Jew and Gentile together is not uncommon, is it? Obviously, the only chance they can be intermingled with Jews is in the last week, week 70, seeing that week 69 ended at probably Jesus’ baptism (when he was anointed).  
 

Pre tribbers say the rapture has to occur BEFORE the week begins......but all I want is some solid confirmation not from what you think but from what is written. Show me why this is so!  

 

If you believe there are other reasons the church can’t be in the first half of the week, for now, please disregard these other reasons because i just want to know, do you believe the church can’t be in any part of Daniels week because it is only for Israel and Jews, and not the church....and on what basis do you hold this belief? 
 

thanks for replying. I’m watching and excited to learn,

spock 

Hi Spock,

Just noticed your intriguing question. Great, I love to think upon God`s word and His purposes through Christ. So to my thoughts.

I believe that the Body of Christ will be `caught away` before the 70th week, as that is when the judgments begin upon the earth. As the overcomers are part of the court in heaven, they will bring the judgments upon the world system and fallen angels.

`Do you not know that the saints will judge the world (system)?.....Do you not know that we shall judge angels?  (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

Also and probably the main reason is that we are part of the coronation of the Lord when He is set by the Father in the third heaven. (Rev. 4) Previously Christ is seated with the Father on His throne. Then when His enemies are brought to His footstool, (Ps. 110: 1) then the Lord will begin to operate in His kingship ruling over the rebellious and dealing with Israel. The Lord will come for His Body and take it to its eternal setting in the highest with Him. (Acts 3: 20 & 21, Rev. 3: 21)

Note the placing of Christ in the third heaven is the first restoration of all things. For that was where Lucifer ruled. There has been no visible ruler there since then. God of course rules over all. However the Father desires that His Son rule visibly with His Body of believers in the highest and that will certainly come about just before the 70th week, and the beginning of the judgments.

And that is certainly something to be excited about.

 

[Justin Adams]

Psalm 82:1

God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods He holds judgment.

“The term divine council is used by Hebrew and Semitics scholars to refer to the heavenly host, the pantheon of divine beings who administer the affairs of the cosmos. All ancient Mediterranean cultures had some conception of a divine council. The divine council of Israelite religion, known primarily through the psalms, was distinct in important ways.”

Michael S. Heiser, “Divine Council,” in Dictionary of the Old Testament: Wisdom, Poetry & Writings (ed. Tremper Longman III and Peter Enns; Downers Grove, IL; Nottingham, England: IVP Academic; Inter-Varsity Press, 2008), 112.

To learn more, click the page links to the right.
Papers marked “academic” are technical in nature.

Dr. Heiser is the best selling author of The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible, which focuses on the divine council worldview of the biblical writers.

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/

If you do not have a Divine Council Deut 32 worldview, very little will make any sense. It is NOT a demonic heresy but the worldview of the apostles.

[Joulre2abba]

RESPONSE TO REVELATION MAN

Dan.12:7 ".. and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time.."

Revelation 12:6 mentions 1260, equal to (42 months, Rev.13:5), equal to 3.5 years. Such timestamps were not mentioned in previous chapters, therefore Chpt 12 marks the midpoint of the 7yr Tribulation. That is the time of introduction of the Antichrist/Beast (12:4).

So it's not "30ds after 1290", it's 30ds added to 1260 which makes 1290ds. As of Rev.12:6 the 30 extra days did not yet occur.

Daniel 12:11 mentions 1,290 days, however, which is 30 days more than the second half of the tribulation. [There is no explicit text stating when or what happens in those 30 days] Different ideas have been put forward to explain what happens in those 30 extra days. One likely theory is that the land of Israel will be rebuilt in that month after the devastation it endured during the tribulation. https://www.gotquestions.org/tribulation-1260-1290-1335-days.html

Dan.9:27 concerns itself with sacrifices made during the 70th week/7yr Tribulation. Which has not begun yet but still remains to occur in our future. Jesus was crucified on the cross around 30/33 AD, around 2000 yrs ago. So the Tribulation sacrifices are animal and/or meal sacrifices.

Read the link provided concerning the Abomination of Desolation. See also Rev.6 in connection with Jesus' words in Mat.24:15 "When you see the Abomination of Desolation which was spoken of through Daniel (9:27) the prophet, standing in the Holy Place [refers to the Temple].."

The Temple standing in Jesus day was destroyed in 70AD. There is no Temple now, therefore in the Mat. text, Jesus indicates that a third will be built during the 7yr Tribulation. In order for the sacrifices to be of meaningful significance, they must be done with a standing Temple furnished with all OT furnishings inside the Holy Place, as well as priests and high priests to officiate the sacrificing process.
The priests are a different office than a prophet, one man cannot be both. The priests do their intercessory function on behalf of the covenant people to cover their sins. The prophet is a seer, and a mouth for God.

*RM: The Jews REPENT before the Day of the Lord, Malachi 4:5-6 and Zechariah 13:8-9 says so.

My response follows these scriptures.

Malachi 4:5-6
5 "See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.
6 He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents;
or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction."

The following verses are connected to the Malachi text.
Luke 1:17
"And he will go on before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous--to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

(Luke 1:17, where the angel Gabriel quotes part of the passage, and applies it to John the Baptist) - Pulpit Commentary @ Biblehub.

The Jewish leadership rejected Jesus therefore He said in
Luke 13:34
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."
Mat.23:37-38
37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me.
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."
Zechariah 13:8-9
7 Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, against the man who is My Kindred, declares the LORD of Hosts. Strike the Shepherd, [Jesus crucified] and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn My hand against the little ones.
8 And in all the land, declares the LORD, two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it.
9 This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'

The text does not say that they will repent before the day of the Lord. This time that we are living now is 'before the day of the Lord'. It did not begin in the first century (2 Thes.2:2) It has not come yet.

*RM: you have misconstrued the John 5:43 verse as being END TIMES,

Then you contradict yourself because you admit that the Jews accept false Messiahs.

John 5:43
43 have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

The Jews did accept men as Messiah before the time of Jesus (the OT Cyrus), and did accept men as their Messiah after Jesus went to heaven to sit at the right hand of God. Rabbi Akiva proclaimed Bar Khokbah as their Messiah. And others after him.
They will likewise also accept the lawless one as their Messiah because he brokers a peace agreement and they build the third Temple and begin their sacrifices. These things are confirmed in Dan.9:27.

*RM: The 1/3 of the Jews who REPENT, Flee Judea at the AoD sign, which gives them 30 days to flee Judea.

Read the url-link I provided for a response concerning the 30 days.

*RM: they are the 144,000 which really just means ALL Israel,

The Revelation text doesn't say that. The 144,000 do not represent all Israel. Rev.7:3 states that the 144,000 are given a seal on their foreheads because they are bondservants of God.
The apostle Paul called himself a bondservant (Rom.1:1-4). So the 144,000 are Messianic Jews who receive Jesus as their Messiah.

*RM: or 3-5 million Jews, according yo how many have returned to the homeland by the very end times, because 1/3 Repent and 2/3 will perish.

When one third repents and two thirds perish, there is no remaining third left.

*RM: read Zechariah 13:8-9.  

Zechariah could refer to the 144,000 but only pertaining to their new position, since what significance is it for Jews to proclaim their God in clearly a specific case in Zech.13:9, yet all Jews already acknowledge Elohim as their God?

*RM: the 10 Brides represent all of Christendom.

The parable of Jesus of the ten virgins, 5 are wise and 5 are foolish. There are no ten brides. The whole Church Body is THE Bride of Christ.

*RM: in Rev. 2:10 it says you will have tribulation for 10 days (that means the WHOLE Church Age).

Rev.2:10 says "some of you". That doesn't mean all Christians.

My speculation: It's only those identified with the Church at Smyrna and what Jesus said to them. Those who die would experience the resurrection of Rev.20:6. Therefore there will be Smyrna believers living within the time of the 7yr Tribulation.
What the Bible indicates: Those Christians of the doctrines and theologies in accordance with the Church at Philadelphia and what Jesus said to them, so being those who hold to the pre-trib rapture.
When that rapture occurs, afterwords there will be other Christians (only called 'the saints' after the end of Rev.3) who live through the 7yr Tribulation. They could be the Smyrnas to be hunted down and put in prison for 10 days then be martyred (12:11).

*RM: The Fractured Roman Empire becomes 10 Kings......or whatsoever the number is over that 1500-2000 some odd year period of time, after Rome falls, unless God was speaking about after Israel fell, thus there could be NO BEAST over Israel, hence the 1500-2000 year identification point.

In 1946 Churchill called for a United States of Europe. The EU has been building since then and was relatively in union, but are now only recently showing their divisiveness or fracturing, with one nation, Britain, so far which has exited.

According to news media, there is rumors and reports that some other nations will also exit. Such as Italy. They are already refering to it as Italexit.
This prompts me to, since news of Italy so far, to be strengthened in my proposal that Daniel's vision (Dan.7:8) of the three that depart from the Beast of ten is correct.

*RM: Either way, the 10 represents the Fractured Kingdom, be it 1 with Rome, maybe 5 kingdoms 1500 years ago, maybe 19 kingdoms 1000 years ago, maybe 15 kingdoms 500 years, or the 27 Kingdoms now, counting England, or 26 kingdoms when they leave the E.U.

The EU are the ten. The EU is the revived Roman Empire. It is because of it's recognized Draconian use of power to control it's own national members. But like iron and clay that don't unify, can't unify, one has broken away and others are seriously pursuing breaking away.

*RM: The 10 simply represents the Fractured Kingdoms that could not come back together as one, even via Royal Marriage (SEEDS OF MEN in verse 41 or 42) and even by Wars. Only when Israel was Reborn did they come back together, from the 1950's to the 1970's.

Israel is not reborn. But God's prophecy of the Olive Tree budding was fulfilled in 1948.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Joulre2abba

[Moby]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:13 PM, Spock said:

This question is for all my pre trib friends.  I really want to believe in the pre trib doctrine, but I need a few questions answered. This is a big one.

I hear so many pre tribbers say Daniels 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel 9 is only meant for Israel and Daniel’s people (Jews).  And they rightfully cite Daniel 9:24, which says....“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression and to put an end totsin,...”

Okay, I get that, I really do.....but, where does it say in the Word that the Church can’t also be involved in even a  part of this 490 years?  Jew and Gentile together is not uncommon, is it? Obviously, the only chance they can be intermingled with Jews is in the last week, week 70, seeing that week 69 ended at probably Jesus’ baptism (when he was anointed).  
 

Pre tribbers say the rapture has to occur BEFORE the week begins......but all I want is some solid confirmation not from what you think but from what is written. Show me why this is so!  
 

Consider this...do you believe the New Covenant was written for the Church? Most do believe such to be so, but look at what Jeremiah says in Jeremiah 31....“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. 33For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD:”

So, even though Jeremiah said the New Covenant was for Israel, many in the church believe it is also for them. So why can’t the Church also be present And intermingled with Jews in at least some part of the first half of Daniel’s 70th week... Before the Great Tribulation begins?  Also, most agree we are presently in the CHURCH AGE from the time Christ ascended till now, right?  But the last time I looked out my window or drive down the street, I see plenty of Jews everywhere. Jew+Gentile intermingling during the Church Age.  So again, why can’t Jew +Gentile intermingle a little in Daniel’s 70th week? 

If you believe there are other reasons the church can’t be in the first half of the week, for now, please disregard these other reasons because i just want to know, do you believe the church can’t be in any part of Daniels week because it is only for Israel and Jews, and not the church....and on what basis do you hold this belief? 
 

thanks for replying. I’m watching and excited to learn,

spock 

I think one of the biggest errors the NT church makes is ignoring what Paul clearly said in Ephesians chapter 2! Here is a small portion from this link:

https://sumofthyword.com/2017/12/19/all-israel/

That clearly proves the believing Gentile becomes a part of the commonwealth of Israel:

Under the old covenant the Gentiles were alienated from the commonwealth of Israel but the new covenant reconciled both the Jew and the Gentile into one body. The Gentiles became fellow-citizens of Israel as fellow saints of the household of God:

Ephesians 2:11-22 Wherefore remember, that once ye, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called Circumcision, in the flesh, made by hands; (12) that ye were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (13) But now in Christ Jesus ye that once were far off(believing Gentiles) are made nigh in the blood of Christ. (14) For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition, (15) having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; (16) and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (17) and he came and preached peace to you that were far off, and peace to them that were nigh: (18) for through him we both have our access in one Spirit unto the Father. (19) So then ye are no more strangers and sojourners, but ye are fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God, (20) being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone; (21) in whom each several building, fitly framed together, groweth into a holy temple in the Lord; (22) in whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.

Zechariah prophesied 800 years before Paul that Gentiles who were “afar off” are now a part of the commonwealth of Israel as the temple of God when they put their faith in Jesus Christ as believers:

Zechariah 6:9 & 15 And the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying,….(15) And they that are far off(believing Gentiles) shall come and build in the temple of Jehovah; and ye shall know that Jehovah of hosts hath sent me(the Word made flesh who is Jesus) unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of Jehovah your God.

Father never intended for His children to be just from the physical seed of Abraham but the children of His promise:

Romans 9:6-8 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel: (7) neither, because they are Abraham’s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (8) That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.

Christ redeemed both the physical Jews and the Gentiles so that both might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith:

Galatians 3:13-14 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: (14)  that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

[luigi]

39 minutes ago, Moby said:

I think one of the biggest errors the NT church makes is ignoring what Paul clearly said in Ephesians chapter 2! Here is a small portion from this link:

https://sumofthyword.com/2017/12/19/all-israel/

That clearly proves the believing Gentile becomes a part of the commonwealth of Israel:

Under the old covenant the Gentiles were alienated from the commonwealth of Israel but the new covenant reconciled both the Jew and the Gentile into one body. The Gentiles became fellow-citizens of Israel as fellow saints of the household of God:

Ephesians 2:11-22 Wherefore remember, that once ye, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called Circumcision, in the flesh, made by hands; (12) that ye were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (13) But now in Christ Jesus ye that once were far off(believing Gentiles) are made nigh in the blood of Christ. (14) For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition, (15) having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; (16) and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (17) and he came and preached peace to you that were far off, and peace to them that were nigh: (18) for through him we both have our access in one Spirit unto the Father. (19) So then ye are no more strangers and sojourners, but ye are fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God, (20) being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone; (21) in whom each several building, fitly framed together, groweth into a holy temple in the Lord; (22) in whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.

Zechariah prophesied 800 years before Paul that Gentiles who were “afar off” are now a part of the commonwealth of Israel as the temple of God when they put their faith in Jesus Christ as believers:

Zechariah 6:9 & 15 And the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying,….(15) And they that are far off(believing Gentiles) shall come and build in the temple of Jehovah; and ye shall know that Jehovah of hosts hath sent me(the Word made flesh who is Jesus) unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of Jehovah your God.

Father never intended for His children to be just from the physical seed of Abraham but the children of His promise:

Romans 9:6-8 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel: (7) neither, because they are Abraham’s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (8) That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.

Christ redeemed both the physical Jews and the Gentiles so that both might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith:

Galatians 3:13-14 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: (14)  that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Very good dividing/correlating the Word of God.

[Marilyn C]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 12:43 PM, Spock said:

 

Pre tribbers say the rapture has to occur BEFORE the week begins......but all I want is some solid confirmation not from what you think but from what is written. Show me why this is so!  
 

 

thanks for replying. I’m watching and excited to learn,

spock 

Hi Spock,

I have some more thoughts.

When Jesus was on earth He said, `I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!` (Luke 12: 49)

Only the High Priest could do this on the Day of Atonement. And this we see enacted by the Lord in Rev. 8. He is the Messenger of the Covenant and shown throwing fire to the earth as judgments upon the rebellious, His adversaries.

It begins the 70^th week as the Lord then goes forth to bring deliverance to Israel, their land and their people.  

 

 

Finally God has 3 Prophetic Days.

I………Day of Christ……I…..Day of the Lord (God Almighty)….I Day of God……>

The Day of Christ. (Phil. 1: 6 - 10   1 Cor. 1: 7 - 8)

This is the first and most important period and relates only to the Church, the Body of Christ. It signifies completion of the highest of God`s purposes, the supreme expression of Divine Revelation. All other expressions of His ordinations are dependent on it completion. (Heb. 11: 40)

The Day of the Lord. (1 Thess. 5: 2 - 9   2 Peter 3: 10)

This has to do with Israel and nations and is invariably connected to the wrath of God poured out in judgment on an unbelieving world. It refers to that period from the termination of `The Day of Christ,` through the tribulation and millennium and terminating with the creation of the new heavens and new earth which precludes `The Day of God.`

The Day of God. (2 Peter 3: 11 - 12)

The day when God will purge the heavens and the earth by fire. Peter is the only one who uses the phrase, `The Day of God.` (concludes the period of `The Day of the Lord.`

 

 

[Joulre2abba]

On 9/7/2020 at 12:32 AM, The Light said:

Cyrus was not a Godly man, but God used Him for His purpose. The is no prince of Cyrus type. There is a 7th king and he will be A king of the North. The 7th king is the prince that will come and cause the daily sacrifice to cease. He is AN antichrist and the rider of the white horse that will be given the stephanos crown, meaning he will become the leader of the U.N. It is the eight king that has the mortal wound of the sword and lives again. He was, and is not and will come again. So the deadly wound has already happened and he will rise again.

The Cyrus type being President Trump is according to the Jews, since he arranged for the US Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem, they have petitioned him to assist them in building the next Temple. That historically is what Cyrus did.

The king of the North (Daniel 11) is of the Seleucid Dynasty. Syria is to the North of Israel. Egypt is to the South, of the Ptolemaic Dynasty.

The lawless one of future, according to Daniel will arrive and broker a peace agreement "confirm a covenant with many for one week", aka the 7yr Tribulation. Then in the middle of that week/7yrs, cause the daily sacrifices to cease when he takes the seat in the Temple and declares himself to be God.

We know from a well known actress that the New Age teaches it's adherents that they are a god. We also know from history, and from the Bible, that the pagan myth religions of Rome and Greece had emperors who called themselves gods.

I agree that the "little horn" will become the leader of nations, but I specifically believe that he will come from one of the EU conglomerate. At a time when it's his turn to be President over the EU, he will have a workable solution concerning a then issue regarding the Jews of Israel. And so the EU and the UN make him their ruler over all the world. During that time he will get a mortal wound, die, then live again. At that time he'll go into the Temple and declare himself God. That is the abomination of desolation. The Jews will flee Jerusalem, and the Antichrist will rule like Nimrod did. That is the "he was, is not, and will come again".

The deadly wound has not already happened in this timeframe. These events I've outlined will happen during the 7yr Tribulation in our future. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Joulre2abba

[Spock]

On 9/7/2020 at 2:13 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Just noticed your intriguing question. Great, I love to think upon God`s word and His purposes through Christ. So to my thoughts.

I believe that the Body of Christ will be `caught away` before the 70th week, as that is when the judgments begin upon the earth. As the overcomers are part of the court in heaven, they will bring the judgments upon the world system and fallen angels.

`Do you not know that the saints will judge the world (system)?.....Do you not know that we shall judge angels?  (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

Also and probably the main reason is that we are part of the coronation of the Lord when He is set by the Father in the third heaven. (Rev. 4) Previously Christ is seated with the Father on His throne. Then when His enemies are brought to His footstool, (Ps. 110: 1) then the Lord will begin to operate in His kingship ruling over the rebellious and dealing with Israel. The Lord will come for His Body and take it to its eternal setting in the highest with Him. (Acts 3: 20 & 21, Rev. 3: 21)

Note the placing of Christ in the third heaven is the first restoration of all things. For that was where Lucifer ruled. There has been no visible ruler there since then. God of course rules over all. However the Father desires that His Son rule visibly with His Body of believers in the highest and that will certainly come about just before the 70th week, and the beginning of the judgments.

And that is certainly something to be excited about.

 

Hi Marilyn,

honestly, your answer is not enough to convince me the church HAS TO BE REMOVED before the 70th week begins.

so far, the best answer for me has been, Israel will experience a partial hardening until the fullness of the Gentiles has come.  This could possibly mean, fullness of Gentiles saved, beamed out, and then God deals with Israel (and the world). 
 

IM NOT SURE THE 24 elders represent the church so that argument doesn’t wow me either. 
 

im still hoping and waiting someone could blow me away here so that I can be a card carrying pre 70th week rapture fanatic.