A different perception - of the Beasts

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

Post trib?

Post.  

[abcdef]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Why flee?  

Because of the COMMAND. No other reason needed.  

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


We know this will be the epicenter of evil.  
Wrath and destruction are on the way, 

Remember Lot?  And learn from his wife, don't look back. 

You say post trib.

The Matt 24:21 scripture that you use using to support your position, that Zech 14 is post trib,

shows just the opposite, that the trib would come after.

Is that correct?

Which is it?

Can you clarify?

[DeighAnn]

41 minutes ago, abcdef said:

You say post trib.

The Matt 24:21 scripture that you use using to support your position, that Zech 14 is post trib,

shows just the opposite, that the trib would come after.

Is that correct?

Which is it?

Can you clarify?

I wish I could but I have gotten lost in what you asking


Maybe this will answer it.   
 
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
This is TRIBULATION. 
Tribulation and Wrath are not the same thing. 
This is a great period of DECEPTION.  This is when the mark of the beast will be required to buy and sell.  This is when the two witnesses will be witnessing.  This is when we will be delivered up for 10 days.  This is when the world will be worshipping the NOW kicked out of heaven Satan. 


 

THIS WILL BE HOW THAT ENDS 

Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Zechariah 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Zechariah 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

Zechariah 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Zechariah 14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

Zechariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Zechariah 14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

Zechariah 14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

Zechariah 14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Zechariah 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

Zechariah 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

[abcdef]

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I wish I could but I have gotten lost in what you asking


Maybe this will answer it.   
 
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
This is TRIBULATION. 

Ok, so this you say happens before Zech 14. The trib happens before Zech 14.

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Tribulation and Wrath are not the same thing. 

Tribulation happens as a result of wrath. So where there is wrath, there is tribulation.

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

This is a great period of DECEPTION.  This is when the mark of the beast will be required to buy and sell.  This is when the two witnesses will be witnessing.  This is when we will be delivered up for 10 days.  This is when the world will be worshipping the NOW kicked out of heaven Satan. 

 

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

THIS WILL BE HOW THAT ENDS 
 

Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

If the beast is already in charge of Jerusalem and the planet,

Who is it that attacks Jerusalem? if the beast is in power there?

 

[douggg]

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

So you say that the Zech 14 destruction is post trib.

Zechariah 14 is not about the destruction of Jerusalem, but about the destruction of those armies who come up against Jerusalem.

 

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

o you say that the Zech 14 destruction is post trib.

The pretrib theory has the AoD mid trib. based on Matt 24.

The people are told to flee mid trib when the AoD/beast is in the temple and Jerusalem is surrounded by armies. We assume that they do.

Then they are in the wilderness for 3 1/2 yrs. (pretrib timeline), then they return to Jerusalem.

 

But now, at the end of the 3 1/2 years, when they are to return, they must flee again? 

It would seem that they never made it back to Jerusalem, where the beast is in control, in order to flee again.

How does that fit together?

 

To answer the basic fundamental conflict you are seeing - is that Jesus message to them in Judea when they see the AoD image in a holy place to flee right away.

The AoD setup on day 1185 of the seven years, still in the first half.    The Jews begin to flee into the mountains, as the two witnesses provide cover for their fleeing, until the two witnesses are killed on day 1250.     The time of protected fleeing over.   

The Jews who don't flee right away will be stuck in Jerusalem for the remainder of the seven years.      Those are the ones in Zechariah 14 who will flee through the gap when the Mt. of Olives is split at the end of the 7 years the day that Jesus returns.

Revelation 12:6 - the fleeing by the wise Jews, fleeing right away.

Revelation 12:17 - the remnant, them who didn't flee right away.

 

 

 

 

Here is a chart I made of the 7 years, the major events.    The red line is the critical path of those events.     Just start in the upper left hand corner and follow diagonally to the lower right.     Find day 1185 on the chart, that when the Jews begin fleeing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by douggg

[Revelation Man]

On 9/5/2020 at 9:15 AM, abcdef said:

The beast is a city with 7 hills/mountains Rev 17:9, 18.

No its not, this is simple stuff made COMPLEX by humans who just throw out the facts the bible gives us, its 1 2 3/A B C type stuff.

The 7 Mountains are 7 Kings, the bible tells us that, so its 7 Kingdoms, Mountains are used throughout the bible to represent Kingdoms or POWERS. It says the 7 Headed Beast is 7 Mountains. 

The Beast Heads represents 7 Powers over Israel. 

THEY ARE........Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome..........2000 some odd year Church Age........Anti-Christ REVIVES the Beast, OR Satan master plan to subdue Israel/Jews.........That's all it is in reality. There was no Israel to subdue fir 2000 years so he tried to kill them via Hitler and other ways. Once Israel was Reborn in 1948, within 10 years Europe reunified. Its NO COINCIDENT. 

There is no city on 7 hills.

 

[Marathoner]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

There is no city on 7 hills.

There are seven hills within the walls of ancient Rome: Aventine, Caelian, Capitoline, Esquiline, Palatine, Quirinal, and Viminal. Three more hills are extant but those fall outside of the ancient walls, Vaticanus (Vatican Hill) being one of them. However, it's worth noting that 16 other cities were founded on seven hills... Seattle and Moscow being two. Trivia and nothing more.  

Edited September 10, 2020 by Marathoner

[Marathoner]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No its not, this is simple stuff made COMPLEX by humans who just throw out the facts the bible gives us, its 1 2 3/A B C type stuff.

The 7 Mountains are 7 Kings, the bible tells us that, so its 7 Kingdoms, Mountains are used throughout the bible to represent Kingdoms or POWERS. It says the 7 Headed Beast is 7 Mountains. 

The Beast Heads represents 7 Powers over Israel. 

THEY ARE........Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome..........2000 some odd year Church Age........Anti-Christ REVIVES the Beast, OR Satan master plan to subdue Israel/Jews.........That's all it is in reality. There was no Israel to subdue fir 2000 years so he tried to kill them via Hitler and other ways. Once Israel was Reborn in 1948, within 10 years Europe reunified. Its NO COINCIDENT. 

There is no city on 7 hills.

 

Agreed regarding mountains representing kingdoms/powers. References abound in scripture. Let's look at these passages from Isaiah 56:

"Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.
The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares,
Yet others I will gather to them, to those already gathered.”
(verses 6-8 NASB)

[Diaste]

On 9/9/2020 at 8:18 AM, Revelation Man said:

No its not, this is simple stuff made COMPLEX by humans who just throw out the facts the bible gives us, its 1 2 3/A B C type stuff.

The 7 Mountains are 7 Kings, the bible tells us that, so its 7 Kingdoms, Mountains are used throughout the bible to represent Kingdoms or POWERS. It says the 7 Headed Beast is 7 Mountains. 

The Beast Heads represents 7 Powers over Israel. 

THEY ARE........Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome..........2000 some odd year Church Age........Anti-Christ REVIVES the Beast, OR Satan master plan to subdue Israel/Jews.........That's all it is in reality. There was no Israel to subdue fir 2000 years so he tried to kill them via Hitler and other ways. Once Israel was Reborn in 1948, within 10 years Europe reunified. Its NO COINCIDENT. 

There is no city on 7 hills.

 

9This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

Scripture does not say the Mountains represent kings.

[DeighAnn]

On 9/8/2020 at 6:38 PM, abcdef said:

Ok, so this you say happens before Zech 14. The trib happens before Zech 14.

Tribulation happens as a result of wrath. So where there is wrath, there is tribulation.

 

If the beast is already in charge of Jerusalem and the planet,

Who is it that attacks Jerusalem? if the beast is in power there?

 

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.