Mideast Peace 2.0

[iamlamad]

7 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

Yes I know how they are purified after the daily sacrifice is abolished because I was purified the same way. They are baptised in the holy ghost. 

But I understand this because I know this event is future and not past. 

I think you said the daily sacrifice was abolished by Antiochus so that would mean you believe it took place in 170 bc. 

So how do you say they are made clean after the daily sacrifice is abolished? PS, Daniel never said it would be reinstated. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

You are trying to blend the old in with the new. It does not work that way. They were under the OLD covenant in which they could only be declared righteous by their faith, as Abraham was. They had to live with their dead spirit man  - a sin generator - because there was no way for them to be born again. That was not possible until Jesus died and rose from the dead. Yes, Antiochus defiled the temple, and stopped the daily sacrifices. It is a fact of history. But after 2300 days, the temple was cleansed and the daily sacrifices started again. It was LAW started by God Himself. At that time, animal sacrifices (and faith in them) were the correct thing to do. But what Antiochus did is what the Beast of Revelation WILL do in our future: stop the daily sacrifices. Antiochus was only a TYPE of the Beast to come. 

You are confusing baptism in the Holy Spirit (for power to witness) - the anointing on the outside -  with regeneration or being born again, which is the Holy Spirit WITHIN. These are two different experiences for two different purposes. The disciples were all born again when Jesus breathed on them and said, "receive the Holy Spirit." 

Next, I am not sure that the born again experience will continue after the rapture. I am not sure anyone knows. I suspect it will. But can it be proven with scripture?

I agree, what Antiochus did will happen AGAIN. In other words, it WAS past but WILL BE again in the future. 

Daniel DID say: after 2300 days. 

However, you make a good point.  What is the real meaning in this:  "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried..." Does it mean they  will be born again? Was anyone truly "purified" under the Old Covenant? I suspect not. It seems you believe they will be born again. 

[Shilohsfoal]

20 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You are trying to blend the old in with the new. It does not work that way. They were under the OLD covenant in which they could only be declared righteous by their faith, as Abraham was. They had to live with their dead spirit man  - a sin generator - because there was no way for them to be born again. That was not possible until Jesus died and rose from the dead. Yes, Antiochus defiled the temple, and stopped the daily sacrifices. It is a fact of history. But after 2300 days, the temple was cleansed and the daily sacrifices started again. It was LAW started by God Himself. At that time, animal sacrifices (and faith in them) were the correct thing to do. But what Antiochus did is what the Beast of Revelation WILL do in our future: stop the daily sacrifices. Antiochus was only a TYPE of the Beast to come. 

You are confusing baptism in the Holy Spirit (for power to witness) - the anointing on the outside -  with regeneration or being born again, which is the Holy Spirit WITHIN. These are two different experiences for two different purposes. The disciples were all born again when Jesus breathed on them and said, "receive the Holy Spirit." 

Next, I am not sure that the born again experience will continue after the rapture. I am not sure anyone knows. I suspect it will. But can it be proven with scripture?

I agree, what Antiochus did will happen AGAIN. In other words, it WAS past but WILL BE again in the future. 

Daniel DID say: after 2300 days. 

However, you make a good point.  What is the real meaning in this:  "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried..." Does it mean they  will be born again? Was anyone truly "purified" under the Old Covenant? I suspect not. It seems you believe they will be born again. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

I'm not blending the old with the new. I say this verse has not been fulfilled. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

I say the daily sacrifice has not been abolished yet nor has the abomination of desolation been placed in Jerusalem. 

You are the one who is testifying that this verse is past. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

So Daniel says after th e daily sacrifice is abolished, these wise people understand and are purified and made clean. 

Daniel never says the armed forces of the king if the north reinstated the daily sacrifice nor does Daniel say anyone does. He only says it is abolished. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

As Paul states, the sacrifices of those animals never attoned for thier sins. It was only a reminder of thier sins. The time is coming when the king of the north shall give Israel a host so that the daily sacrifices of Israeli can be abolished. Something tells me your not going to realize it took place after it happens. 

[iamlamad]

7 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

I'm not blending the old with the new. I say this verse has not been fulfilled. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

I say the daily sacrifice has not been abolished yet nor has the abomination of desolation been placed in Jerusalem. 

You are the one who is testifying that this verse is past. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

So Daniel says after th e daily sacrifice is abolished, these wise people understand and are purified and made clean. 

Daniel never says the armed forces of the king if the north reinstated the daily sacrifice nor does Daniel say anyone does. He only says it is abolished. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

As Paul states, the sacrifices of those animals never attoned for thier sins. It was only a reminder of thier sins. The time is coming when the king of the north shall give Israel a host so that the daily sacrifices of Israeli can be abolished. Something tells me your not going to realize it took place after it happens. 

11:35 may not be fulfilled. I don't know.

It is a fact of history that Antiochus stopped the daily sacrifices. I am not going to deny history or try to change it. But it will happen AGAIN. Paul tells us the man of sin (without much doubt, a Gentile) will enter the most holy place in the new temple and declare he is God. This act will stop the daily sacrifices. So we AGREE this will happen in the future. 

Since I believe The verses in chapter 11 before verse 36 are about Antioochus, I think it is justified to include verses from chapter 8 to tell us more than chapter 11 does.

I agree, in the FUTURE, the daily sacrifices will not begin again. But they will be meaningless anyway, because WE KNOW Jesus was the supreme sacrifice. Before the Jews can reinstate the sacrifices (though meaningless) JESUS will come. (Finally I am understanding your meaning.)

Sorry, my friend, but I will not BE HERE.

[Shilohsfoal]

53 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

11:35 may not be fulfilled. I don't know.

It is a fact of history that Antiochus stopped the daily sacrifices. I am not going to deny history or try to change it. But it will happen AGAIN. Paul tells us the man of sin (without much doubt, a Gentile) will enter the most holy place in the new temple and declare he is God. This act will stop the daily sacrifices. So we AGREE this will happen in the future. 

Since I believe The verses in chapter 11 before verse 36 are about Antioochus, I think it is justified to include verses from chapter 8 to tell us more than chapter 11 does.

I agree, in the FUTURE, the daily sacrifices will not begin again. But they will be meaningless anyway, because WE KNOW Jesus was the supreme sacrifice. Before the Jews can reinstate the sacrifices (though meaningless) JESUS will come. (Finally I am understanding your meaning.)

Sorry, my friend, but I will not BE HERE.

No, we don't agree what the daily sacrifice is. And it's not a man claiming to be God that helps abolish the daily sacrifice. It's the armed forces who abolishes the daily sacrifice. 

A host will be given to Israel to abolish the daily sacrifice. It shall practice the authority of the Israeli government on its behalf. 

Th hose who are we ise will understand and they will be purified and made clean. Even till the time of the end. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

No, we don't agree what the daily sacrifice is. And it's not a man claiming to be God that helps abolish the daily sacrifice. It's the armed forces who abolishes the daily sacrifice. 

A host will be given to Israel to abolish the daily sacrifice. It shall practice the authority of the Israeli government on its behalf. 

Th hose who are we ise will understand and they will be purified and made clean. Even till the time of the end. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

Certainly a "host" or an army was given to Antiochus to enforce his wishes upon the Holy people of God back then. He could not do what he did by himself. And in the future, neither will the Beast be able to behead millions by Himself, A host will be given him.

Surely you know that ANYONE other than the high priest entering the most holy place in the temple would defile the temple, and it would then have to be cleansed? (Think a red heifer.)  So, yes, a SINGLE man can and will end the Daily Sacrifices. But it will take the host to prevent the cleansing of the temple. 

I think you and I will continue to disagree. 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Certainly a "host" or an army was given to Antiochus to enforce his wishes upon the Holy people of God back then. He could not do what he did by himself. And in the future, neither will the Beast be able to behead millions by Himself, A host will be given him.

Surely you know that ANYONE other than the high priest entering the most holy place in the temple would defile the temple, and it would then have to be cleansed? (Think a red heifer.)  So, yes, a SINGLE man can and will end the Daily Sacrifices. But it will take the host to prevent the cleansing of the temple. 

I think you and I will continue to disagree. 

According to Daniel a single man does not end the daily sacrifice. 

The armed forces of a northern country does. 

https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/11-31.htm

That is armed forces, such as the army, navy Air force or marines. 

A single man can not replace the IDF. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[WilliamL]

On 9/12/2020 at 6:11 AM, Alive said:

Are you suggesting that Trump is the 'son of perdition'?

Who can say at this point? The position at present remains vacant. However, my best understanding currently is that the SoP will come out of Europe.

[WilliamL]

On 9/15/2020 at 12:17 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

On 9/11/2020 at 1:12 PM, WilliamL said:

So then you are suggesting that Jerusalem and a rebuilt sanctuary will be destroyed, and blood sacrifices cut off, in 3-1/2 years or so?

I'll wager a bundle against that happening.

Daniel never said what the daily sacrifice was or to whom this sacrifice is made. He did say the prophecy is sealed till the time of the end. Personally I don't believe the time of the end (when the resurrection takes place) was in 167 bc. 

The "daily/continual/tamiyd [offering]" of Dan. 12:11 and the "blood sacrifice/zebach" of Dan. 9:27 are speaking of two entirely different things. The term zebach is only used once in Daniel; it refers to the blood sacrifices still offered in the Temple before it was destroyed in 70 AD.

Daniel 12:11 pointedly does not use that term, which strongly suggests that this prophecy of future events does not require a blood sacrifice in our time in order to be fulfilled.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

According to Daniel a single man does not end the daily sacrifice. 

The armed forces of a northern country does. 

https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/11-31.htm

That is armed forces, such as the army, navy Air force or marines. 

A single man can not replace the IDF. 

That is probably why the vast majority of bible scholars align verse 31 with Antiochus. He did have an army. 
So what are you going to do with Paul telling us the man of sin (one man) is going to enter the holy of holies? Ignore it?

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

No, we don't agree what the daily sacrifice is. And it's not a man claiming to be God that helps abolish the daily sacrifice. It's the armed forces who abolishes the daily sacrifice. 

A host will be given to Israel to abolish the daily sacrifice. It shall practice the authority of the Israeli government on its behalf. 

Th hose who are we ise will understand and they will be purified and made clean. Even till the time of the end. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-35.htm

Or, a host WAS GIVEN to Antiochus...we know it was.