Can satan and other demons take on a human form and live among us?

[Starise]

2 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Something to ponder. Since this delves into subject matter which isn't addressed in the canon of scripture but touched upon in the Book of Enoch and the history of some indigenous peoples, "test the spirits" to discern if they are of God.

First, ancient legends of North American people which describe light-skinned giants of tremendous size. These red-haired giants were eaters of men, forbidden and reviled in many NA indigenous cultures. These could be Nephilim. 

There is indeed a possibility that the flood was local and not global in scope; flooding of the Mediterranean basin resulted in the Mediterranean Sea which at that time was "the world" to the ancient authors of scripture. In all honesty I don't hold fast to a regional flood though there is evidence supporting it. Again, we're dealing with ancient Hebrew euphemism which as a friend who is fluent in the Hebrew language points out, "is exceedingly thick and terribly nuanced."

Second, the sins of the Watchers were manifold: not only did they violate their first estate but their corruption of the human race and even beasts is recorded in the Book of Enoch. Each Watcher imparted forbidden knowledge to the race of men, secrets of creation which men were not supposed to know by the command of our Lord. We know from the canon of scripture that the descendants of Nephilim like Arak persisted in the land of Canaan so this begs the question:

How did their abominable seed survive the flood? 

 

I have read  similar things on this subject. In some cases the giants are described as unable to produce offspring which would fit well with a hybrid narrative. Since we know cross breeding between dissimilar DNA usually produces an offspring incapable of producing offspring i.e the common mule. In other instances giants are referred to as being both male and female in some ancient writings. There have apparently been recent findings in the Grand Canyon that were hushed. The giants reported by the early Indians were said to be as deviate as deviate ever could be. 

Maybe you've read about the supposed giant that was shot in Afghanistan by the US military not too long ago. If true this would imply that there are still a few of them around. Afghanistan is a huge place with lots of mountains. One could conceivably hide in there for a long time and never be found.

On one hand it takes a stretch for any thinking person to simply accept all of this as fact. On the other hand, we seem to have  proof for a for at least some of it of it if you dig deep enough. The skulls primarily found in Brazil are yet another example of finding something that clearly wasn't totally human. Just so you know- No I don't subscribe to Gaia . I don't buy into most of that. HOWEVER- Elongated skulls have been found. They were not made that way by binding. 

Probably the best argument for attempting to hide the fact that we had giants is it would further the Biblical narrative which so many don't believe. Knowing there were these genetically different species of significant height would then also lead one to consider HOW this might have happened, further leading to the Watchers.

 

[BeauJangles]

3 hours ago, Marathoner said:

There is indeed a possibility that the flood was local and not global in scope; flooding of the Mediterranean basin resulted in the Mediterranean Sea which at that time was "the world" to the ancient authors of scripture.

When I was a child exploring some of the mountainous regions of the high Sierras, Mt. Whitney being the highest summit of that range in the continental US, my cousin and I were searching for Yokut Indian relics and artifacts. Among what we did discover was something very amazing. Very tiny minute sized clam shells. Not even 1/4 inch wide. 

These could well have been light enough in weight to have traveled the distance from the known Pacific. I imagine the seas being rough enough to cause oceanic turmoil. The reason being this. These shells were obviously not fossilized, appearing too much before anything indicative of prehistoric. In other words, not of the dinosaur era. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by BeauJangles

[Marathoner]

Not all of the watchers left their first estate. 

I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven; He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:

Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth: Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.

This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
(Daniel 4:13-17 KJV)

[Speks]

From the unreasonable and foolish standpoint of a somewhat dizzy cherry-picking fundamentalist, this thread is a telling tale that sends us through a temporal maze of theories wrapped around assumptions built on presumptions that glued together bring us to a conclusion where the only certainty is the dead end of ambiguity. 

In the words of a song, "I gotta do better than this". Can anyone relate? I hope so...

[Justin Adams]

8 minutes ago, Speks said:

Can anyone relate? I hope so...

Maybe somewhat. Listen to or read Dr. Heiser's "Reversing Hermon".

[Starise]

15 hours ago, Roar said:

I am in the early stages of reading Michael Heiser's book "Demons: What The Bible Really Says About The Powers Of Darkness". Amazon.com says:

The truth about demons is far stranger-and even more fascinating-than what's commonly believed.

Are demons real? Are they red creatures with goatees holding pitchforks and sitting on people's shoulders while whispering bad things? Did a third of the angels really rebel with Satan? Are demons and "principalities and powers" just terms for the same entities, or are they different members of the kingdom of darkness? Is the world a chaotic mess because of what happened in Eden, or is there more to the story of evil?

What people believed about evil spiritual forces in ancient biblical times is often very different than what people have been led to believe about them today. And this ancient worldview is missing from most attempts to treat the topic.

In Demons, Michael Heiser debunks popular presuppositions about the very real powers of darkness. Rather than traditions, stories, speculations, or myths, Demons is grounded in what ancient people of both the Old and New Testament eras believed about evil spiritual forces and in what the Bible actually says. You'll come away with a sound, biblical understanding of demons, supernatural rebellion, evil spirits, and spiritual warfare.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I personally have some experience with demons but I see no sense in boring others with my experiences since there are far better sources such as the Bible and Bible Scholars with much more experience than me to resource. I am looking forward to completing Heiser's book on Demons to compare it to my own experiences. 

Book looks interesting I might make it my next read. Thanks for the FYI. This time I'll try to remember who wrote it and the title before I read it

While the Bible says a lot of the spiritual world, I see nothing wrong with tying that together with real experiences. So many people refuse to believe they even exist. That is, those who haven't had first hand experiences. If you think relating experiences are boring to people then I guess I won't indulge either, but I have a few incidents as well.

I have often wondered why we seem to hear much less about the good angels. My guess is because they are too busy going about more productive things besides making footstep noises in the attic and breathing on ears and whispering in the basement, appearing as shadows and so forth.. Satan hasn't been locked up and I don't think all of the bad angels are either. He can't be relying on a small number of Nephillim spirits to do his bidding. JMHO. YMMV. While we might not totally agree on their origins I think we can agree on what they tend to do or how they tend to behave. 

I wasn't the first to ask this question, since when I was searching I seen others have asked the same question. While demons appear in all kinds of places, they very often appear in attics and basements. On Google the demons are called Ghosts- Why do ghosts often appear in attics and basements? The answers just didn't satisfy me. " They like dark places" " They prefer to be away from people". REALLY?  They like to possess people, so that second answer doesn't make sense. The 1st answer....Well maybe , but in the evening it gets dark upstairs too. Nothing really definitive here. 

I think this goes back to territories. Some areas are "off bounds" to demons unless they are somehow invited. So what do they do? They get just as close as they can without being too close. Nose up against the glass kind of thing. Then they hope someone will do or say something to let one of them go upstairs, or if in the attic, downstairs. The time when people are most unprepared is in the evening while sleeping, so if they see an opening they take it. If that opening is you, look out! I think their territories are more spiritual than physical. If God sets a hedge around you they can't come near it. If you take the hedge down or weaken it, they come through. 

In any case, this might well be the most boring gig ever. Satan says to demon number 100442. go down to the Smith property and pretend to be Mr. Winkler. Throw a few things around. Project those hallway walking routines again. They left the hedge open when Junior was playing with that Ouiji board last week and asked for us.

 

 

[Marathoner]

Little wonder that ambiguity exists seeing as how darkness rules this world of the falling away. I understand where you're coming from, @Speks. Keep in mind that we live during those days foretold by the apostle Paul:

But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. (2 Timothy 3:1-5 NASB)

...as well as the entirety of 2 Thessalonians 2. These are those days of men who hold to that form of godliness which denies the power of Jesus Christ and the work of His Holy Spirit, whom He sent into the world to convict men of their ungodliness (John 16:8). 

The work of the accuser, the ruler of this world, is manifested in this present darkness and the hatred many foster in their hardened hearts toward their neighbor, speaking evil things against them and proclaiming their wickedness as righteousness before God. The darkness of their ignorance is a terrible thing.

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Marathoner

[Starise]

On 10/15/2020 at 4:33 AM, Speks said:

From the unreasonable and foolish standpoint of a somewhat dizzy cherry-picking fundamentalist, this thread is a telling tale that sends us through a temporal maze of theories wrapped around assumptions built on presumptions that glued together bring us to a conclusion where the only certainty is the dead end of ambiguity. 

In the words of a song, "I gotta do better than this". Can anyone relate? I hope so...

No harm in being cautious. Sometimes these small scripture references such as the one that mentions sons of God taking daughters of men open up lots of intensive study. 

If a person isn't convinced of the foundational ideas as true, then there's no point in going any further. 

One of several things that are very telling is finding these giant skeletons. People on the web have had a lot of fun with photoshop...but underneath the fun and games there have been real confirmed findings of these skeletons.9-10 ft and taller. 

• sons of God into daughters of men>giants
• expansion of watchers idea in Enoch
• confirmed giant skeletons

If we say the sons of god were somehow just godly men, if we say Enoch is not relevant to the discussion we need to also explain this approach beyond doubt in my opinion, such as why was Enoch relevant to be quoted in the Bible as reliable? Do we say the large recovered skeletons were merely some sort of natural departure from normal DNA? How do we explain how the giants mentioned in the Bible got here? I am willing to look at any other data on it, such as any info that seriously discredits the book of Enoch or similar. So far I have only seen the opposite. 

I am now reading Micheal Heiser's book " Demons". I have his other book " It's Supernatural. So far the book looks to mainly be following where Demons and Satan as terms and ideas come from using many different sources including deep biblical study of references that aren't necessarily overt in the OT and NT.  Michael is heading in the direction of attributing the evil beings often referred to as demons to fallen angels.

So far the book has been more of a collegate study on terminologies and origins. I'm pretty far into the book. I had hoped it might give more ideas on the behavior and outcome of what demons do and more specifically how they operate. This doesn't appear to be addressing any of that specifically yet. We know they are out there undermining good. I would like to know more about them as beings in their fallen state and more specifically what some of their more common tendencies are. Maybe put some of what they are doing as examples and then show why they are doing it. That kind of thing. If they are fallen beings of light, why do people often report seeing very dark shadows when they are around?  What are the signs someone is possessed? I have heard there are "quiet" demons, so they are in the person but you wouldn't know it...little factoids like that would be helpful.

I seen a woman one time who had green eyes. While talking with her in a business setting I noticed something odd about her eyes. She had elongated pupils. When I noticed it she quickly ended the conversation and seemed very uncomfortable around me. I have always wondered about that. Was this a demon peering out at me? 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Starise
spelling

[Mantis]

If you have ever met my ex you would conclude demons can come in human form.

[Leonardo Von]

Quote

Can satan and other demons take on a human form and live among us?

No, I never saw something like this in the Holy Scripture.