Daniel 4:15 Iron and brass rings

[Charlie744]

Sister, please go to Leviticus 26:19. 

Here God is telling us that Nebuchadnezzar is indeed subject to His rule and he can do nothing without Him.

He is punishing him for his pride.

Your thoughts.. Charlie 

[Sister]

Hi Charlie

  Leviticus 26:19   And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:

He's speaking to Israel here for they were the only people called out at that time, but yes, he later did the same to Nebuchadnezzar.  That's God's way.  He will brake their horn so to speak.  "Their heaven", if they stray.... whatever they believe in and set on high will come down upon them hard and heavy, for iron brakes in pieces.  The brass I presume would be where ever they walk, trouble there too.  No escape.  However God wants to punish he will do with whomever, but the command comes from him.  Iron is the strongest metal, so God is comparing it to a stronger force that cannot be broken.  Brass is the 2nd strongest metal in this case.  Whoever will be broken will be weaker than even the brass I guess.  I am not really sure what you are seeing here?  It's not a prophecy, but just God saying how he punishes.  Showing his way.

[Charlie744]

Yes, thank you!

That is exactly what I believe God is telling us about His judgement with Nebuchadnezzar. He is using the tree which Nebuchadnezzar thinks he has built. It is all due to him that the world has prospered. His final “pat on the back” was the point where God would remove his world and show him he can do nothing without Him!

These two metal bands symbolize God removing everything (from heaven and below) due to his pride. God had given him a year to repent and recognize it is God who gives us everything!

Charlie

[Charlie744]

Sister, continuing...

God could easily have simply destroyed Nebuchadnezzar but He had a lesson to teach him and us.

He cut down Nebuchadnezzar’s “tree”, but not at the root. God would keep him alive between the two bands- like a type of heaven and hell, or between His grip... 

He would keep Nebuchadnezzar in that “vise” of (symbolically) iron and brass or in that state for 7 years to show him who he should have recognized.

So much of Daniel is symbolic, and these two different bands of metal tells us that He would not destroy him but hold him in a place beyond his ability to escape... until he recognized God.

[Leonardo Von]

On 9/13/2020 at 7:52 AM, Charlie744 said:

In Daniel 4:15, the tree is cut down but the iron and brass rings were left from around the tree. What is the meaning or significance of these two remaining rings?

It means that the kingdom would be restored to Nebuchadnezzar. 

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, Leonardo Von said:

It means that the kingdom would be restored to Nebuchadnezzar. 

Thanks for the comment! Would you mind elaborating on that? How does the two metal types relate to him?

There is definitely a good reason God wrote into Daniel but it is very difficult to interpret... It could somehow relate to the last two of the four kingdoms, but I am having problems getting there.

 I am still working on it and appreciate your thoughts!!!

Charlie

[Markie51]

The account is referring-as a metaphor-to King Nebuchadnezzar as the immense tree that was cut down a banded for a short period of time-which happened.

 The tree represented his kingdom; and, the “cutting down” symbolized his temporary loss of such kingship. The banding probably means-symbolically also-to confirm or assure that his kingship would eventually be restored by not allowing new sprouts to emerge and grow. This is likened to trees that may and can recover by sprouting new shoots and grow into a mature tree again.  Such shoots are likened to any other possible rivals vying for his throne.

[Charlie744]

5 hours ago, Markie51 said:

The account is referring-as a metaphor-to King Nebuchadnezzar as the immense tree that was cut down a banded for a short period of time-which happened.

 The tree represented his kingdom; and, the “cutting down” symbolized his temporary loss of such kingship. The banding probably means-symbolically also-to confirm or assure that his kingship would eventually be restored by not allowing new sprouts to emerge and grow. This is likened to trees that may and can recover by sprouting new shoots and grow into a mature tree again.  Such shoots are likened to any other possible rivals vying for his throne.

Thanks for your thoughts! Very nice, and appreciated!

Do you have any thoughts on why the specific metals are mentioned?

There are 3 metals still to come after Nebuchadnezzar’s  gold kingdom, but there are only two metals remaining on the tree that has been cut down. This must have a special and specific meaning.

 I agree with you on the temporary nature of His kingdom symbolized by the tree still standing and not completely cut down.. 

Hope to hear some more of your thoughts, thanks again, Charlie 

 

[Markie51]

Thank you!  Your comment encourages me.

Regarding the different types of metals, I have not idea why they were mentioned.  Perhaps they were the most common metals available at that time or their reliability for strength.  Regardless, the bands were symbolic.

[Sotera]

The answer to your question is in the story itself and to unlock it, you simply need to recognize that the story is a bible template.

First, write out the story and then add in any details that you can remember about Nebuchadnezzar.

So, for instance, we are told in Jeremiah 27 that Nebuchadnezzar is "God's servant" and that God put him over all the nations.  Yet in Daniel it is written that, because of his failure to give glory to the most high, he was cast down and driven out of the kingdom appointed to him.  He was given the mind of a beast and then spent 7 years wandering the wilderness.  His hair grew like eagle's feathers and his nails like bird's claws.  When his term was up, his mind was returned to him upon which he praised the most high God and was restored to his previous position.

The next step is to remove all the superficial elements so that you can see clearly any underlying themes.

The story is thus about a servant of God who was given power and kingship.  Yet, because the servant did not give glory to the most high, was cast down.  The servant's mind is made like that of a beast, so that he ceases to remember the power and authority that he once had and bands of iron and brass are placed around him.  A band is a binding.  Something that is used to contain or restrict.  IE. like a fence restricts a cow.  The servant then has to wander about in the enclosure until the set period of captivity is up.  During that time, his hair grows like eagle's feathers and his nails like bird's claws.  Finally, when he gives glory to the most high is given back his power and kingship.  Note the references to feathers and claws.

This template is perhaps the most profound template in the entire bible but requires a complete shift in world view in order to understand.  I would suggest starting with Job 1 and then move on to Psalms 82 and ask, "Who is God really talking to here?"  Also, read Revelation 12 very carefully and consider who the stars are that Satan cast down with his tail and what Satan is doing to them.  Bear in mind that we are told shortly thereafter that Michael cast down Satan and his Angels just prior to the woman fleeing into the wilderness.  If Satan's angels are still with him, who then are the stars that Satan cast down?  Then the question becomes, when were these stars cast down?  The clue is in the iron and bronze bindings, and once you understand this, it brings new clarity to the remarks made by Jesus about coming to get his lost sheep.

Best of Luck.