Daniel 4:15 Iron and brass rings

[Charlie744]

In Daniel 4:15, the tree is cut down but the iron and brass rings were left from around the tree. What is the meaning or significance of these two remaining rings?

[R. Hartono]

May be it means Nebu's power is still intact for his return.

Edited September 14, 2020 by R. Hartono

[Charlie744]

Thank you but my initial response would be that Nebuchadnezzar is someone who will not be returning.

My first thought was they might represent the last two kingdoms- those that were of brass and iron or Greece and Rome, but that did not seem to work... 

God certainly has a very good reason for showing us these two metal rings that remain... 

I am sure there will be some interesting comments from the talented folks within this site! 

Thanks again, Charlie 

[Moby]

On 9/13/2020 at 6:52 AM, Charlie744 said:

In Daniel 4:15, the tree is cut down but the iron and brass rings were left from around the tree. What is the meaning or significance of these two remaining rings?

Here is a portion of Rob's link still in the works that will be called "MYSTERY ~ BABYLON THE GREAT and her BEAST" that he is planning on posting here sometime this fall:

https://sumofthyword.com/

There is much more in the forth coming article but this is all he will allow to be shared at this time:

The third kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar's image that ruled over the earth was Greece with its spiritual prince as the belly and thighs of brass that banded the Babylonian stump:

Daniel 2:32 As for this image, its head was of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of brass,

Daniel 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee; and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

Daniel 4:23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and a holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew down the tree, and destroy it; nevertheless leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass.

This third kingdom was led by its first king "Alexander the Great" who moved like a leopard, with his four generals as heads, to conquer Medeo~Persia:

Daniel 7:6 After this I beheld, and, lo, another, like a leopard, which had upon its back four wings of a bird; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

All of these kingdoms are controlled by demon spirit princes but servants of the Lord such as Daniel have an angel prince from our Father:

Daniel 10:20-21 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I am come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I go forth, lo, the prince of Greece shall come. (21) But I will tell thee that which is inscribed in the writing of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me against these, but Michael your prince.

"Alexander the Great" was also likened to a notable horn on his he-goat army that came from the west with furry to conquer the Medeo~Persian ram:

Daniel 8:5-8 And as I was considering, behold, a he-goat came from the west over the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. (6) And he came to the ram that had the two horns, which I saw standing before the river, and ran upon him in the fury of his power. (7) And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with anger against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns; and there was no power in the ram to stand before him; but he cast him down to the ground, and trampled upon him; and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand. (8) And the he-goat magnified himself exceedingly: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and instead of it there came up four notable horns toward the four winds of heaven.

After Alexander the Great’s death at the age of 32, the Grecian empire broke up into four weaker kingdoms within the nation:

Daniel 8:21-22 And the rough he-goat is the king of Greece: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. (22) And as for that which was broken, in the place whereof four stood up, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not with his power.

The fourth kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar's image that ruled over the earth as the legs of iron was the Roman empire that also banded the Babylonian stump:

Daniel 2:33 its legs of iron, its feet part of iron, and part of clay.

Daniel 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron, forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things; and as iron that crusheth all these, shall it break in pieces and crush.

Daniel 4:23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and a holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew down the tree, and destroy it; nevertheless leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass.

This fourth kingdom devours all the beast kingdoms before it and is diverse from all the others in its power to devour the whole earth:

Daniel 7:7 & 19 & 23  After this I saw in the night-visions, and, behold, a fourth beast, terrible and powerful, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns......(19) Then I desired to know the truth concerning the fourth beast, which was diverse from all of them, exceeding terrible, whose teeth were of iron, and its nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet;......(23) Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all the kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

The people of the Roman empire and its prince were used by God to first crucify His Son Jesus in 30 AD and then destroy Jerusalem and its temple in 70AD:

Daniel 9:26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one(Jesus) be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.

The power and authority of the previous four kingdoms of Nebuchadnezzar's dream are manifesting in the last beast:

Revelation 13:1-3 and he stood upon the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads names of blasphemy. (2) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard(Grecian), and his feet were as the feet of a bear(Medeo~Persian), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(Babylonian): and the dragon gave him his power, and his throne, and great authority. (3) And I saw one of his heads(Roman) as though it had been smitten unto death; and his death-stroke was healed: and the whole earth wondered after the beast;

[Charlie744]

Thank you for the information!

I may have missed it but why are the two bands of iron and brass remaining?   As I mentioned in my previous post, my initial thoughts were the last two kingdoms but why only the last two as opposed to the (then) remaining 3 at that time?

I believed the second (silver) kingdom was still to come.. 

Thanks, Charlie 

[Sister]

On 9/13/2020 at 6:52 PM, Charlie744 said:

In Daniel 4:15, the tree is cut down but the iron and brass rings were left from around the tree. What is the meaning or significance of these two remaining rings?

Hi Charlie

Daniel 4:14   He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:

  Daniel 4:15   Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:

The tree's branches and leaves was Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom.  His kingdom was cut down.  The roots and the stump of the tree was not destroyed, because two great kingdoms were going to later shoot out of the tree.  The band of iron would of been under the band of brass.  Greecia is symbolised by the brass, and Rome the iron.  These two kingdoms were to come.   I am not sure why there is no band of silver there? (Medo-Persia).  Maybe God is just showing the last two kingdoms that will sprout out of the same tree.  The kingdom of Greecia as we know today was cut down first, leaving the kingdom of iron till last. 

The stump and the roots of the tree symbolise the kingdoms of man, and God gives it to whom he will.

[Charlie744]

Thank you Sister!

My first thought was exactly the same, but because the “silver” kingdom was not also shown, I have rejected it. 

I have two approaches;

1) that they DO represent Greece and Rome but there is a very good reason for it being excluded, or,

2) they do not represent the last two kingdoms, even though they seem to be easily identified with them, and I need to uncover their meaning.

This is a tuff one! As of now I am leaning towards the latter but I have no real basis for doing so... Are you aware of any OT Scripture that speak to these two metals?

 Thanks so much, Charlie 

[Charlie744]

Sister, just wanted to give you my thoughts... which are certainly not completed...

1) Tubal- Caine was a metals smith particularly in iron and brass, 

2) Deuteronomy 33:25 speaks of being secured with iron and brass.. 

I am trying to tie the later first... 

Thanks, Charlie 

[Charlie744]

Sister, I found this in regards to Duet. 33:25....

. As thy day, so shall thy strength be. The words carry a tacit hint, that we have no strength of our own, but have need of strength from above. Come down from your self-esteem: stoop from the notion of your own natural ability: divest yourself of the foolish idea that you can do anything in and of yourself, and come now to the Strong for strength, and ask your Lord to fulfil this promise in your experience.

Meaning that Nebuchadnezzar is unable to complete or do anything... but for God ONLY!

I think this message might just fit the “bands of iron and brass” —- especially for Nebuchadnezzar.. 

Will continue.. Charlie 

[Sister]

6 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you Sister!

My first thought was exactly the same, but because the “silver” kingdom was not also shown, I have rejected it. 

I have two approaches;

1) that they DO represent Greece and Rome but there is a very good reason for it being excluded, or,

2) they do not represent the last two kingdoms, even though they seem to be easily identified with them, and I need to uncover their meaning.

This is a tuff one! As of now I am leaning towards the latter but I have no real basis for doing so... Are you aware of any OT Scripture that speak to these two metals?

 Thanks so much, Charlie 

Hi Charlie

There are lots of scriptures that speak of these metals.  Brass and iron are strong metals.  Iron is the strongest. So throughout the scriptures these metals are just to indicate the strength of someone or something.  However,  In Daniel chapter 2, we were given the definition of who these metals represented regarding kingdoms.  Greecia was the kingdom of brass, a strong kingdom, but the next kingdom to come after that was of iron, even stronger.

The interpretation was given to King Neb.  He was at the peak of his reign.  He still did not understand that God gives the ruling kingdoms to whomever he chooses.  King Neb proudly decided that his kingdom was great because of his own doings, but it was God who actually made him great and gave all to him.

Now because of King Neb's pride, he was about to be removed from his kingdom for seven years until he understood it's all in God's power to set up kings and pull them down.  The kingdom of Babylon, everyone depended on.  When King Neb was thrust out of his own kingdom, he was sent into madness like a wild beast, ...a gentle wild beast.  Although his branches and the fruit were cut down, the stump was not removed yet, because in 7 years he would be given his position of power back.  The two bands on the stump of the tree symbolise that the roots and stump of the tree was not attached to King Neb alone, but to others also who would come after him, according to God's choosing.

The lesson is, it's in God's power to bring up many kings and kingdoms, and pluck them down.  The lesson is not about the bands of iron and brass, but show they are the last major kingdoms on the stump.  The stump remains to the end, until the last kingdom of iron is plucked up, hewn down and uprooted never to sprout again.

We know that the last kingdom of iron, morph's into the kingdom of iron and clay.  It has the strength of the iron, but it's getting weaker. It's days are numbered as it will only rule for 3 1/2 years.  The shortest time of any kingdom.  Not a great kingdom at all in the end.

So not all scriptures mentioning iron and brass are interpreted the same way.  It's all according to context.

Take for example this scripture;

 Micah 4:11   Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion.

  Micah 4:12   But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.

  Micah 4:13   Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.

The daughter of Zion's horn is who they worship, where their strength comes from.  In that day, their feet will be strong also, where they walk, for the Lord God is with them.  It doesn't mean that they are of the kingdom of Rome, or the kingdom of Greece, but just a comparison of strength to these metals.  The iron is the strongest.  They do not beat people in pieces themselves, but it's as if they do, for the Lord God is fighting their battle, making them untouchable in that day.  Nothing to do with kingdoms, and not that you said that, I am just making a point that not every scripture with the words of iron and brass can be interpreted the same way as explained to Daniel about kingdoms, but about the strength of these precious metals.