The Jezebel Spirit and the Rapture

[WilliamL]

On 9/28/2020 at 10:28 AM, Biblican said:

No matter how God chooses to do this, it’s your job to make sure your congregation is in that Philadelphian category.”
     He said, “I got it.”
     If you are one of those pre-tribulation rapture disclaimers, I hope you get it, too.
     Jesus told us to pray that we are worthy to escape (Luke 21:36). We have an option.
     Jesus tells the Jezebel infected church of Thyatira to repent or else they would go through “great tribulation” (Rev. 2:22). It is obvious that we are being shown here, that the church has the option of being protected from the great tribulation. That option is based on obedience to the Lord’s commandment to repent and change their ways.

This is not a matter of congregations but of individuals. A very few elect of the elect of the Church, the manchild of Rev. 12, will be caught up first:

Rev. 12:5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up unto God and unto His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness...

Those who flee into the wilderness at the time of the Abomination of Desolation and the beginning of the Trib. will also be protected. Some of them, as well as others who did not escape into the wilderness, will soon after be caught up at the 6th Seal Revelation of the Father and the Son, when "every eye will see" them. Rev. 1:7 They will be the faithful still alive at the Rapture, who become part of the "great multitude" of believers before the heavenly throne,

Rev. 7:9 ...the ones coming out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple.

The manchild group, however, will be Christ's ministers of the Millennial Age, who will receive authority like unto him:

Rev. 2:26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron [see 12:5 above];
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—

as I also have received from My Father.

The great multitude group will be comparable to the Levites of the Mosaic Covenant, who served in the Temple, but did not have the authority of the Aaronic priesthood. The manchild will be the Millennial Melchizedek priesthood.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/902-careers-in-the-kingdom/

 

[Keras]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

But it does.

Heb. 12:18 For you have not come to the mountain [Sinai] that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest [= the first descent of God in judgment/First Shofar]... 22 But you are come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are re

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/840-the-last-shofar-the-latter-horn-of-redemption/gistered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. 25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven [= the Last Shofar, when Christ descends in judgment].

Even as Moses and Joshua were called up into the Presence on Mount Sinai, so will the faithful of the Church be called up to heavenly Mount Zion.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/840-the-last-shofar-the-latter-horn-of-redemption/

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1992-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-2/

 

The Jerusalem made in heaven comes down to us, we do not ever go to heaven. Revelation 21:1-7

[Michael37]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

This is not a matter of congregations but of individuals. A very few elect of the elect of the Church, the manchild of Rev. 12, will be caught up first:

Rev. 12:5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up unto God and unto His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness...

I would be interested in how you reconcile the above interpretation with the verse below:

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[Biblican]

15 hours ago, WilliamL said:

This is not a matter of congregations but of individuals. A very few elect of the elect of the Church, the manchild of Rev. 12, will be caught up first:

Rev. 12:5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up unto God and unto His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness...

Those who flee into the wilderness at the time of the Abomination of Desolation and the beginning of the Trib. will also be protected. Some of them, as well as others who did not escape into the wilderness, will soon after be caught up at the 6th Seal Revelation of the Father and the Son, when "every eye will see" them. Rev. 1:7 They will be the faithful still alive at the Rapture, who become part of the "great multitude" of believers before the heavenly throne,

Rev. 7:9 ...the ones coming out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple.

The manchild group, however, will be Christ's ministers of the Millennial Age, who will receive authority like unto him:

Rev. 2:26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron [see 12:5 above];
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—

as I also have received from My Father.

The great multitude group will be comparable to the Levites of the Mosaic Covenant, who served in the Temple, but did not have the authority of the Aaronic priesthood. The manchild will be the Millennial Melchizedek priesthood.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/902-careers-in-the-kingdom/

 

Hi. I was taught Revelation by the Lord somewhat differently. I basically read it as if I was interpreting a dream. That's what the visions in Revelation are like dreams that are seen visually rather than in the mind when asleep.

Congregations are made up of individuals. These spiritual conditions mentioned in Revelation can be operating in individuals within one church. The point is only the Philadelphians have not deviated from the word and do not harbor the errors that the other churches represent.  The Philadelphians are the only ones promised protection. They are the 144,000 represented by the two witnesses.

I have to disagree with the man child interpretation. I believe it was introduce by a teacher on Youtube. Jesus identifies Himself as the man child in John 16:21. The man child is also  the Messiah in Isaiah  66:7. Of course the church will rule with Him with the same authority, the "rod if iron."  Revelation's chapter twelve is a parable designed to show the church the reason for her persecution. It is inserted with chapter 13 to serve as a "bridge" signifying a change.  We are being shown the transition from the warning period of the trumpets to the tribulation. The pattern of  connecting "bridge" scriptures is evident in Rev. 13.  Verses 9 and 10 are inserted as a break between the description of the beast and transitions us to the description of the antichrist. We see the same pattern in Daniel 11. Verses 32-35 are the bridge scriptures that are inserted to transition us from the description of  the antichirst's foreshadow to the antichrist that will be functioning until the Lord returns.

I believe that all believers that have been faithful will rule and reign with the Lord, but the remnant Philadelphian believers are the group that will be raptured in chapter 11 represented by the two witnesses. They are called candlesticks in verse 4, so they have to be churches.. So as you see them going up in Rev. 12, which actually is Jesus, the rapture will have already taken place. It could be viewed as a duel prophecy, butas I said before, the church is being shown a parable to illustrate the reason for her persecution. I don't have time to go into all the details, I did an expository study of it. But in either case, the bide of Christ will rule and reign with her Husband with a "rod of iron."

[Biblican]

On 10/1/2020 at 8:12 PM, Keras said:

The Jerusalem made in heaven comes down to us, we do not ever go to heaven. Revelation 21:1-7

The 144,000 are in heaven in Revelation's chapter fourteen. The martyrs are with God under the alter in heaven in Revelation's chapter six. Those who have gone through the tribulation  are seen in heaven with God in chapter 15. Paul mentions a man who was caught up to heaven in II Corinthians 12:2.  He knew that if he died, he would be with Jesus in heaven (Philippians 1:23). The New Jerusalem represents the church/wife  (Revelation 21:2) that God is indwelling; the righteous that will be inhabiting the new heaven and earth. Please note that the foundation of that city is made up of jewels that represent the Apostles. The church/New Jerusalem descends from where it was, in heaven with God, prior to His creating the new heavens and earth. When  you are studying scripture you have to look at everything.

[Keras]

4 hours ago, Biblican said:

The 144,000 are in heaven in Revelation's chapter fourteen. The martyrs are with God under the alter in heaven in Revelation's chapter six. Those who have gone through the tribulation  are seen in heaven with God in chapter 15. Paul mentions a man who was caught up to heaven in II Corinthians 12:2.  He knew that if he died, he would be with Jesus in heaven (Philippians 1:23). The New Jerusalem represents the church/wife  (Revelation 21:2) that God is indwelling; the righteous that will be inhabiting the new heaven and earth. Please note that the foundation of that city is made up of jewels that represent the Apostles. The church/New Jerusalem descends from where it was, in heaven with God, prior to His creating the new heavens and earth. When  you are studying scripture you have to look at everything.

Yes, we must study everything. Especially the CONTEXT.

Revelation 7:1-3 sets an earthly scene for what follows. The 144,000 are not in heaven, neither is the vast multitude they were selected out of ; in heaven.  You have just assumed that to suit your belief of a 'rapture'. 

Jesus was very clear; No one goes the heaven, except the One who came from heaven. John 3:13

[Biblican]

20 hours ago, Keras said:

Yes, we must study everything. Especially the CONTEXT.

Revelation 7:1-3 sets an earthly scene for what follows. The 144,000 are not in heaven, neither is the vast multitude they were selected out of ; in heaven.  You have just assumed that to suit your belief of a 'rapture'. 

Jesus was very clear; No one goes the heaven, except the One who came from heaven. John 3:13

Within the context of Rev. 7, the 144,000 are being sealed for their protection Rev.  9:4,  which correlates to Ezekiel 9:4. At this point they are still on earth. These are the ones who are protected from the great tribulation and we see them in heaven before the throne of God in Rev. 14:3. They are in a place of safety and protection before the violence that is portrayed in 14: 14-20.

You are misquoting John 3:13. Jesus did not say no one goes to heaven. He was saying that before Him, no one ascended up to heaven. Even Enoch and Elijah, though they were "raptured" were taken to paradise, not heaven. We see that in Jesus' parable of Lazarus and the Rich man. Paradise was the holding place where souls remained until Jesus came and released them from that "prison" (I Peter 3:19,4:6). Even though it was lovely, it was not heaven. We can define heaven by saying, heaven is being in the presence of God Himself.

You have every right to believe what you choose concerning the rapture, but the point of my post is that only the Philadephian remnant is promised to be protected from the hour of God's judgment. However God chooses to do that, by calling some up to heaven as He does in Revelation 11:12, or if He hides them in a mountain, the point is we all need to make sure that we are in that Philadelphian category and not harboring the errors of the other five spiritual conditions that would  disqualify us from being a Philadelphian.                                                                      

 

[missmuffet]

Jesus Christ will rapture the Church. People with the Jezebel spirit are going to remain on this earth until Jesus Christ comes back at the second coming. 

[Keras]

5 hours ago, Biblican said:

Within the context of Rev. 7, the 144,000 are being sealed for their protection Rev.  9:4,  which correlates to Ezekiel 9:4. At this point they are still on earth. These are the ones who are protected from the great tribulation and we see them in heaven before the throne of God in Rev. 14:3. They are in a place of safety and protection before the violence that is portrayed in 14: 14-20.

You are misquoting John 3:13. Jesus did not say no one goes to heaven. He was saying that before Him, no one ascended up to heaven. Even Enoch and Elijah, though they were "raptured" were taken to paradise, not heaven. We see that in Jesus' parable of Lazarus and the Rich man. Paradise was the holding place where souls remained until Jesus came and released them from that "prison" (I Peter 3:19,4:6). Even though it was lovely, it was not heaven. We can define heaven by saying, heaven is being in the presence of God Himself.

You have every right to believe what you choose concerning the rapture, but the point of my post is that only the Philadephian remnant is promised to be protected from the hour of God's judgment. However God chooses to do that, by calling some up to heaven as He does in Revelation 11:12, or if He hides them in a mountain, the point is we all need to make sure that we are in that Philadelphian category and not harboring the errors of the other five spiritual conditions that would  disqualify us from being a Philadelphian.                                                                      

 

Nowhere does the Bible say people will go to and live in heaven. The 144,000 will be missionaries who will proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Proved by Isaiah 66:19

I did not 'misquote' John 3:13. Jesus said what He means and it is error to add to it. That no human will go to heaven, is also proved by John 17:15, John 7:34, John 8:21-23 and Revelation 5:10.

Noted; that Revelation 11:12 refers to the 2 Witnesses, who got killed. I believe Jesus Returns at that moment and they are resurrected and transported to Jerusalem, along with the rest of the GT martyrs. Revelation 20:4

[WilliamL]

On 10/2/2020 at 8:31 AM, Biblican said:

Hi. I was taught Revelation by the Lord somewhat differently. I basically read it as if I was interpreting a dream. That's what the visions in Revelation are like dreams that are seen visually rather than in the mind when asleep.

Congregations are made up of individuals. These spiritual conditions mentioned in Revelation can be operating in individuals within one church. The point is only the Philadelphians have not deviated from the word and do not harbor the errors that the other churches represent.  The Philadelphians are the only ones promised protection. They are the 144,000 represented by the two witnesses.

I have to disagree with the man child interpretation. I believe it was introduce by a teacher on Youtube. Jesus identifies Himself as the man child in John 16:21. The man child is also  the Messiah in Isaiah  66:7. Of course the church will rule with Him with the same authority, the "rod if iron."  Revelation's chapter twelve is a parable designed to show the church the reason for her persecution. It is inserted with chapter 13 to serve as a "bridge" signifying a change.  We are being shown the transition from the warning period of the trumpets to the tribulation. The pattern of  connecting "bridge" scriptures is evident in Rev. 13.  Verses 9 and 10 are inserted as a break between the description of the beast and transitions us to the description of the antichrist. We see the same pattern in Daniel 11. Verses 32-35 are the bridge scriptures that are inserted to transition us from the description of  the antichirst's foreshadow to the antichrist that will be functioning until the Lord returns.

I believe that all believers that have been faithful will rule and reign with the Lord, but the remnant Philadelphian believers are the group that will be raptured in chapter 11 represented by the two witnesses. They are called candlesticks in verse 4, so they have to be churches.. So as you see them going up in Rev. 12, which actually is Jesus, the rapture will have already taken place. It could be viewed as a duel prophecy, butas I said before, the church is being shown a parable to illustrate the reason for her persecution. I don't have time to go into all the details, I did an expository study of it. But in either case, the bide of Christ will rule and reign with her Husband with a "rod of iron."

Lotta claims backed up by nada. Everything John saw after 4:1 are "things which must take place after these things." That is, it is all future from John's time; thus so is Chapter 12. Nothing in that chapter (other than any presumption added to it on your part) says that it contains any events of the past.

Your statement "The Philadelphians ... are the 144,000 represented by the two witnesses" is full of non-biblical presumptions.