The Jezebel Spirit and the Rapture

[WilliamL]

On 10/6/2020 at 8:30 AM, Biblican said:

I have learned that it's okay to use logic when you are interpreting scripture.

It certainly is okay to use logic when interpreting the scriptures. However, logic is only as good as the facts used to reach the conclusion, and there's the rub. When key facts are missing or misinterpreted, then one can come to a completely logical conclusion which is completely wrong. As people so often do when interpreting the scriptures; this is one reason why there are so many sects.

[WilliamL]

On 10/5/2020 at 10:41 PM, Keras said:

On 10/5/2020 at 1:35 PM, WilliamL said:

And Paul specifically tells us that we will "come" to the "heavenly Jerusalem," not a descended-to-earth one. I take him at his word, and don't put any spin on it.

Revelation 21:1 specifically says the New Jerusalem will come to the earth and goes on to say how the Lords people will then inhabit it. 

People going to heaven is never said to happen. God Himself and therefore heaven comes to dwell on earth.  AFTER the Millennium. 

Your second sentence is simply false, but you refuse to believe all the scriptures to the contrary. So be it.

Your first sentence is true, but by no means negates the faithful first ascending to "the heavenly Jerusalem" (Heb. 12:22) at the beginning of the Millennium, at the harpazo of the elect. If you choose to not be a part of that, and therefore to go through the time of God's Wrath, so be it.

[Keras]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Your second sentence is simply false, but you refuse to believe all the scriptures to the contrary. So be it.

Your first sentence is true, but by no means negates the faithful first ascending to "the heavenly Jerusalem" (Heb. 12:22) at the beginning of the Millennium, at the harpazo of the elect. If you choose to not be a part of that, and therefore to go through the time of God's Wrath, so be it.

The 'harparzo' prophesied in 1 Thess 4:17, is simply a transportation of the Lord's faithful people from where they are on earth to where Jesus will be; in Jerusalem. 

A 'rapture' removal of Christians to heaven, is never said to happen in the Bible.  You believe a false doctrine, one that contradicts what Jesus said; John 3:13, John 17:15, + , as well as ignoring the may scriptures that say we must endure until the end.

We cannot 'choose' our destiny, but to humor you; yes - I choose to remain on earth, doing whatever the Lord requires of me, I reject the idea of abrogating my responsibilities and I totally reject the unscriptural fable of being whisked off the heaven before the Judgment.  Hebrews 9:27  Only at the GWT Judgement after the Millennium, is the Book of Life opened and our fate decided. 

 

[Biblican]

19 hours ago, WilliamL said:

It certainly is okay to use logic when interpreting the scriptures. However, logic is only as good as the facts used to reach the conclusion, and there's the rub. When key facts are missing or misinterpreted, then one can come to a completely logical conclusion which is completely wrong. As people so often do when interpreting the scriptures; this is one reason why there are so many sects.

Yeah, and I think one of the main reasons we get so many sects is that apostolic authority is neglected. The first century apostles were the ones God hand picked to establish doctrine and when their voices are negated, diminished or overridden, then we open the door to error. Augustine was one who was guilty of this and unfortunately he influenced many others.

[R. Hartono]

On 9/29/2020 at 1:32 AM, Diaste said:

Pretrib fails miserably here. 

Not yet bro. 

We shud not precede God by all means 

[R. Hartono]

On 9/29/2020 at 3:22 AM, Keras said:

Rapture to heaven’ believers say that people who dispute their theory; just cannot see or understand that belief.

 

It’s what we don't see in the Bible, where the difference lies. Nowhere does scripture say God intends to take His people to heaven. In fact Jesus Himself says such a thing is impossible. John 3:13, John 7:34, Revelation 2:25-26, +

 

People who read the whole Bible can establish the truth for themselves, that God's purpose is to have a people who will be His faithful believers, doing His will on earth. THAT is our purpose and our destiny!

But a lot of people don't bother to find out this truth, they listen to teachers and read fictional books that say we can just be good people, churchgoers and tithers, and God will remove them to heaven. They are told this fantastic and incredible event will happen before any Judgement or testing of their faith. They are told it is the Jewish people who must face tribulation, not them.

 

This scenario is not found anywhere in the Bible. It is made up from assumptions and making scriptures mean something they do not. 

So the 'rapture to heaven' believers will never convince anyone who seriously reads their Bible. 

The lazy people who accept doctrines from anywhere except the Bible, are deceived and because they choose to believe lies, the Lord has locked them into their delusions. Isaiah 29:9-12, and stopped their ears to the truth; 2 Timothy 4:4

 

The great Multitude of Rev 7 are the wise virgins taken to the Feast of the Lamb of Rev 19. While the whole world Will be served with wormwood coffee including the foolish virgins left behind 

[R. Hartono]

On 9/29/2020 at 7:06 AM, Biblican said:

Yeah well, kept from the hour doesn't mean forcibly abducted from one place and taken to another.

Kept from the hour is to set a watch over or guard

 

Did God tell us the parable of Ten virgins for no good ? God has sent invitation to all people n only the wise virgins taken to the Feast. While the world Will be served with wormwood capuccino.

[Diaste]

On 9/28/2020 at 6:06 PM, Biblican said:

Yeah well, kept from the hour doesn't mean forcibly abducted from one place and taken to another.

Kept from the hour is to set a watch over or guard. 

Pretrib fails miserably here. 

Diaste,  you missed the point. This post is not about the rapture, it's about what Jesus instructed us to do to be worthy to escape. He obviously does not want His children to go through the tribulation if it can be avoided. Only the Philadelphians will qualify and we have to make sure we are in that category. He can move His people around, hide them and He can call them up to heaven if He chooses as He does in Chapter 11:12 with the 144, 000. These candlesticks/churches are in heaven in chapter fourteen before the blood bath occurs at the end of that chapter.

The point is, the Jezebel spirit does not teach that there is an option.

 

I said, "Kept from the hour is to set a watch over or guard." That agrees with you. I think my point was pithy in that it's simple if one just reads the scripture for what it says. The point about pretrib is maybe reactive from a long history of opposing the doctrine. I see you weren't advocating a position on that. 

I don't know Jezebel. I know Jesus said, "Because you have kept the word of my patience I will keep you from the hour of testing that comes to try the whole world." And so yes, Jesus will keep watch over us during the troubles. As always He is the one and only protection and escape.

People should really get away from the church and pastors and preachers and their ilk. Their spiritual muscles will be exercised by the Spirit and they will begin to hear the written words of the King; which are drowned out by worship services and rock music and rambling incoherence of some ostensibly 'biblical lesson'.

Jesus condemned the religious leaders in His day so we should not trust them to do anything for us unless it can be discerned they follow Christ and Him alone. 

 

[Biblican]

On 10/8/2020 at 5:23 PM, Keras said:

The 'harparzo' prophesied in 1 Thess 4:17, is simply a transportation of the Lord's faithful people from where they are on earth to where Jesus will be; in Jerusalem. 

A 'rapture' removal of Christians to heaven, is never said to happen in the Bible.  You believe a false doctrine, one that contradicts what Jesus said; John 3:13, John 17:15, + , as well as ignoring the may scriptures that say we must endure until the end.

We cannot 'choose' our destiny, but to humor you; yes - I choose to remain on earth, doing whatever the Lord requires of me, I reject the idea of abrogating my responsibilities and I totally reject the unscriptural fable of being whisked off the heaven before the Judgment.  Hebrews 9:27  Only at the GWT Judgement after the Millennium, is the Book of Life opened and our fate decided. 

 

Jesus said to pray that we are worthy to escape the tribulation. He does not want you to have to go through something that He has said He wants you to avoid. If you think you can go through it, that is just pride. He wants us all to be humble enough to obey Him and pray that we are worthy to escape, however He chooses to protect us.