What's in a name?

[LonerAndy]

16 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Well, she was brought up for 12 years in a good church, baptized and considers herself a believer of Jesus, Who died on the cross and rose on the third day. She does not practice, continue to attend Church nor read her Bible, but claims to believe. Now I would have to say that millions for centuries prior to the Printing Press, knew little, nor did they have the scriptures available to them and had faith in the basics. I am not making an excuse for her, I would have to say, I see love, the fruit of the Spirit in her and she is a light. Jesus hung around the sinners, whom the Pharisees criticized Him for, yet the sinners were in need of a physician not the righteous. 

However, the notion has come across my mind - that she's a liberal Christian, who allows things in her life, maybe ignorantly and doesn't think there is any harm in it. A fictionalized name does not carry any curse. Her husband however does have influence in her life as she must run everything through him for approval. He is an atheist. 

The show is inaccurate really. Lucifer was the most glorious of angels, beautiful, powerful --- until He rebelled and became Satan. Still, the idea/connotation will have a negative consequence in her life.

I have been warned to stay out of their marriage already! So you are right. She gets defensive if I say anything.

 

Absolutely, but we still must voice our opinion whether they like it or not. Silence and no opposition sort of means acceptance.

 

Hopefully.

That actually is what I assumed from the start.  As you well know, growing up in a good church means nothing.  Absolutely nothing.   I went to a very orthodox Christian traditional church, and out of all the kids that I grew up with at that Church, I would guess maybe three still go to church?   In fact, even of the Pastors own kids, only 2 out of the 4 of them still go to church.

Going to church when you are a kid, means nothing.  The true condition of the heart only manifests itself, when the heart has a choice.  And when she had a socially acceptable choice, she didn't go to church.

And being married to an Atheist is a pretty clear indication of where her heart is.  I don't know what your Church specifically taught, but I was taught that the Bible says believers should not be unequally yoked to non-believers, and thus I never once even considered dating a women who was not a Christian.

The fact she not only dated, but married a non-christian, pretty much tells you where her heart is.

So with that in mind, you need to approach this like you are praying for a complete and total pagans.  A non-christian. You need to be praying for your daughter and her husband, as if they were both atheists.

So that's my advice.

And as for the name....

I'll just say that every time you engage in a confrontation, you need to think about what the real goal is, and how much damage you, and them, going to take in the process.

Like any military campaign, when a military general decides on whether or not they are going to fight to take any given hill.. they have to ask, is the hill worth taking? And if it is, at what cost is the hill worth taking?

There is going to be a cost to you, and them, for you to fight over this name. 

First, do you really believe they are going to name their child differently, because you complain about it?   If not... then are you damaging your relationship for nothing?

Even if they do change the name because you complained, is this going to put a wall between you and them, where you will have less of a positive influence in the future?

I'm not saying don't complain, but think about it carefully.  Is this hill, this specific hill, worth getting shot for?

Just something you should consider before you confront them on this.

[Billiards Ball]

On 10/17/2020 at 11:14 AM, RonaldBruno said:

My daughter and her husband have decided on a name for her first daughter, Mazikeen. When I heard of this name, I thought it was odd so I looked it up. It is a fictional name from a TV show that she thought sounded cool. Well, the TV show is Lucifer and Mazikeen is a demon. It is based on a DC Comic.

So, what's in a name? Why would she name her blessed child after a demon (albeit fictional)? The middle name she chose is Serafina, a derivative of Seraphim. So we now we have both, the demon and the angel child.

My wife and I have a problem with this name. The only way I can get around it is to call my Grandchild by her middle name or Sera for short. The only way I can reasonably accept "Mazikeen", (since they will be adamant and offended as they usually are when I criticize or advise them in "THEIR MARRIAGE" in any way), is to say,  Well _ we all are sinners ... sometimes we're angels and sometimes we are devils! Let's hope her character develops in a godly manner. And obviously a name will not dictate her character, but there is another aspect of all this to consider: and it has nothing to do with what my daughter, her husband or the grandparents like.

How will Mazikeen be received by others? Will she constantly be questioned about her name? "What's your name again??? ... What kind of name is that?...  What does that mean? ... What were your parents thinking?" And then the brunt of jokes by kids once they google it and find out. "Here she comes, Satan's girlfriend!. Or here she is, the evil one ... the one who brings harm _ or whatever." Will she be ashamed, and not wanting to give her name?

Well, that's it. Any advise? The date is coming in November. My wife urges me to try to change her mind. If you know me, I think the world is going to end soon anyways so what's the difference?

1) Find out if Mazikeen is a highly sexed TV show character, then urge the parents to change the name based on THAT association--a request they may take better than "demon name".

2) Search Hebrew and Greek for a great nickname for Mazikeen that is godly. Some here may have suggestions.

3) Sometimes you have to bear with it--Daniel's friends had their names changed from "Jehovah names" to "Bel names" in Babylon.

[BeauJangles]

18 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said:

1) Find out if Mazikeen is a highly sexed TV show character, then urge the parents to change the name based on THAT association--a request they may take better than "demon name".

While it's a nice idea, I believe going through the thread indicates the opster's daughter and son in-law were not only resistant to this suggestion, they also made it very clear he was to stay out of their personal lives and not press his faith on them or the friends they have chosen to associate with. 

[RonaldBruno]

5 hours ago, LonerAndy said:

As you well know, growing up in a good church means nothing.  Absolutely nothing. 

Disagree. It does mean something. It means you have been exposed to the Word. How much of the Word that penetrated is questionable though. Your motivation for going ( and I am aware that kids initially go, not willingly always, but because their parents take them), is important. Your response to the lessons; your attitude on your way there and and on your way home; the interactions with your Pastor all others who are there, reflect your experience.  Your overall disposition counts. Are you a happy person? Do you give your parents a hard time? Are you spoiled, glass half empty, complaining or saying and doing mean things to others?

 My daughter scores high in the fruit of the Spirit. Her attitude has always been bright. All through school and church, her relationships with her teachers, pastors in Children's church displayed warmth. My Pastor said we were his favorites. I never had a problem with her as a child growing up ( until she hit eighteen and started dating a bad boy). That didn't last long and she learned a good lesson. She never complained about anything. She wasn't spoiled. I would have to ask her over and over again, What do you want for your B-Day or Christmas and it was like pulling teeth, never wanting things. Like me, she was not much of a consumer, doesn't like to shop. 

She believes in Jesus - who am I to say otherwise? I know her heart and it is good. Was Jesus hanging around with sinners, the sick, tax collectors, prostitutes, stinky fishermen and did He not love Judas? My daughter loves others and does not judge them. I am more judgmental and critical of others. 

It is just that she is following her husband - whom she knows I don't favor. And to get back at me, subtly rebels in his ways. She doesn't do or say anything mean to me, not purposely would hurt me. It is just my mature Christian views bump up against her immature ones. 

5 hours ago, LonerAndy said:

In fact, even of the Pastors own kids, only 2 out of the 4 of them still go to church.

So, the Holy Spirit does not go out void. The Pastor has instilled Christian principals in his children and sometimes they go off, like the Prodigal Son, wanting to go their own way. The Word remains dormant in them. They aren't quite ready to commit and so must go off and live - learn the hard way. And God knows this, has a plan and draws them in at a later time. But all is not lost. If the kid goes way off the track in the opposite direction, gets into drugs, is evil and wicked, what can say? Did David murder to get Bathsheba? Wait a minute, I thought he was a man after God's heart? Didn't he sing songs, give us the Psalms that we all cherish?  In fact, does not God turn the murderer around in prison and they become a light to other prisoners?

 

6 hours ago, LonerAndy said:

And being married to an Atheist is a pretty clear indication of where her heart is. 

Lee Strobel was an atheist, an award winning investigative reporter who set out to disprove Christianity and what happened? He became a Christian, who is an effective minister in Apologetics. We just don't know how God is working out His plan for people _ my daughter or her husband as well. 

My father was an atheist until his last years of his life. We are all unbelievers until God draws us at that particular moment in time.

6 hours ago, LonerAndy said:

I was taught that the Bible says believers should not be unequally yoked to non-believers,

That is true. But some do not know all that is in the Bible or understand it completely. If we couldn't become Christians until we did, not many would be Christians. The Body would be miniscule to the point where it would have no effect on the world. 

So, Christ says, be careful, judge not, lest be judged and he who is without sin cast the first stone!!!

6 hours ago, LonerAndy said:

The fact she not only dated, but married a non-christian, pretty much tells you where her heart is.

Well, you do not know her. But what about you and your heart? In another thread (Trusting In God's Plan) you said that you remained single because you didn't trust people and this: "I assume that at some point, people will betray me." And in another thread you said, "I don't care about anything in this world" ... "I kind of knew this life would suck since High School".  I don't know you, but if I just went on those statements, I might think you did not live life in the full as Jesus wants us to - in this world. I might also think that by saying you don't care about anything in this world, that also means anybody? You said you don't trust people which is why you are alone, single?

It's also hypocritical especially when in another thread, (The Church Inward and The Church Outward), you advised someone about doing what you just did, " Let's not make assumptions about people before we ask them or know them." 

Where is the fruit of the Spirit in your life? You should be more concerned about looking in the mirror at your own life, rather than trying to give advice to others!!! 

[FrankIeCip]

The above sounded a little harsh but true. ? God knows our hearts better than we do and the Lord knows them that are his. Look at the thief who was saved at the last hour. We were all children of wrath and disobedience until the great kindness and love of Our Savior came to us. Amen?? Praying for you all. Frank. 

[Figure of eighty]

On 10/18/2020 at 9:08 AM, FrankIeCip said:

Personally I think it’s just a name. God is more interested in the heart. Saul became Paul. Maybe Sera will stick. You know how many Hispanic people are named Jesus.? They aren’t always good. Most aren’t. Maz or Sera? If she belongs to God that’s all that matters. God bless. 

Totally agree with this but Im not naming my kid lucifer or Adolf Hitler.  

Just bad associations. 

 

I chose Sydney instead

.

[LonerAndy]

4 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Disagree. It does mean something. It means you have been exposed to the Word. How much of the Word that penetrated is questionable though. Your motivation for going ( and I am aware that kids initially go, not willingly always, but because their parents take them), is important. Your response to the lessons; your attitude on your way there and and on your way home; the interactions with your Pastor all others who are there, reflect your experience.  Your overall disposition counts. Are you a happy person? Do you give your parents a hard time? Are you spoiled, glass half empty, complaining or saying and doing mean things to others?

 My daughter scores high in the fruit of the Spirit. Her attitude has always been bright. All through school and church, her relationships with her teachers, pastors in Children's church displayed warmth. My Pastor said we were his favorites. I never had a problem with her as a child growing up ( until she hit eighteen and started dating a bad boy). That didn't last long and she learned a good lesson. She never complained about anything. She wasn't spoiled. I would have to ask her over and over again, What do you want for your B-Day or Christmas and it was like pulling teeth, never wanting things. Like me, she was not much of a consumer, doesn't like to shop. 

She believes in Jesus - who am I to say otherwise? I know her heart and it is good. Was Jesus hanging around with sinners, the sick, tax collectors, prostitutes, stinky fishermen and did He not love Judas? My daughter loves others and does not judge them. I am more judgmental and critical of others. 

It is just that she is following her husband - whom she knows I don't favor. And to get back at me, subtly rebels in his ways. She doesn't do or say anything mean to me, not purposely would hurt me. It is just my mature Christian views bump up against her immature ones. 

So, the Holy Spirit does not go out void. The Pastor has instilled Christian principals in his children and sometimes they go off, like the Prodigal Son, wanting to go their own way. The Word remains dormant in them. They aren't quite ready to commit and so must go off and live - learn the hard way. And God knows this, has a plan and draws them in at a later time. But all is not lost. If the kid goes way off the track in the opposite direction, gets into drugs, is evil and wicked, what can say? Did David murder to get Bathsheba? Wait a minute, I thought he was a man after God's heart? Didn't he sing songs, give us the Psalms that we all cherish?  In fact, does not God turn the murderer around in prison and they become a light to other prisoners?

 

Lee Strobel was an atheist, an award winning investigative reporter who set out to disprove Christianity and what happened? He became a Christian, who is an effective minister in Apologetics. We just don't know how God is working out His plan for people _ my daughter or her husband as well. 

My father was an atheist until his last years of his life. We are all unbelievers until God draws us at that particular moment in time.

That is true. But some do not know all that is in the Bible or understand it completely. If we couldn't become Christians until we did, not many would be Christians. The Body would be miniscule to the point where it would have no effect on the world. 

So, Christ says, be careful, judge not, lest be judged and he who is without sin cast the first stone!!!

Well, you do not know her. But what about you and your heart? In another thread (Trusting In God's Plan) you said that you remained single because you didn't trust people and this: "I assume that at some point, people will betray me." And in another thread you said, "I don't care about anything in this world" ... "I kind of knew this life would suck since High School".  I don't know you, but if I just went on those statements, I might think you did not live life in the full as Jesus wants us to - in this world. I might also think that by saying you don't care about anything in this world, that also means anybody? You said you don't trust people which is why you are alone, single?

It's also hypocritical especially when in another thread, (The Church Inward and The Church Outward), you advised someone about doing what you just did, " Let's not make assumptions about people before we ask them or know them." 

Where is the fruit of the Spirit in your life? You should be more concerned about looking in the mirror at your own life, rather than trying to give advice to others!!! 

I'm beginning to see why she doesn't want your input into her life.

You asked for advice by coming here.  Now you are arguing with my advice, and I'm not even in your situation.

As I said before, if you got it all figured out, then do what you want.   Advice is just that.  It's advice.  You can take it or leave it.

[RonaldBruno]

3 hours ago, LonerAndy said:

I'm beginning to see why she doesn't want your input into her life.

You asked for advice by coming here.  Now you are arguing with my advice, and I'm not even in your situation.

As I said before, if you got it all figured out, then do what you want.   Advice is just that.  It's advice.  You can take it or leave it.

Others gave good advice, without being judgmental. You made all kinds of false claims  about going to church means nothing and where her heart is as if your life is better, not trusting people and life sucking, etc. With an outlook like yours, probably shouldn't be giving advice.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by RonaldBruno

[appy]

Regarding the grandchild's name. You might try using “Maisie” When I looked Maisie up, web pages say it is of Scottish origin and is short for “Margaret”. The meaning is NOT the same as the spelling of Mazi, with a “Z”. Two different spellings and meanings.

You might get away with calling the child Maisie with an “S” and not have your daughter and son-in-law raise eyebrows since it is close to Mazikeen while having a totally different meaning than Mazikeen. But I don't think you need to tell them that there is a difference. Knowing this is more for your benefit, than theirs.

Your daughter and son-in-law made a decision that is out of your hands and control. I'm NOT saying you have to agree with their choice, but that, what is done, is done and move on. 

You must trust the Lord with them, and leave it in His hands. I know that this is much more easily said than done. Take the wrong choices you are concerned about to the Lord, and tell Him all about it, instead of them. God calls us to take everything to Him. Pray without ceasing, and this is no exception.

Ask the Lord to show your child and son-in-law, the reality of the name chosen for their child. Then ask the Lord to use the circumstance to bring about conviction and repentance, leading to salvation for the in-laws and your daughter for continued sanctification. Often Pray, and pray many prayers, both for your own ability to honor God in the circumstance, and for your child’s well-being.

Then rest, knowing that the Lord will give you the strength and courage to hold fast to Him through whatever troubles your child encounters as a result of foolish choices. And remember, you were once foolish, like your grown-up child.

On the matter of giving stern advice which has been brought up in the conversation. Irregardless of who it is, and even if you are right regarding any situation, no hearts or minds will be changed by harsh and judgmental comments or advice.

Any unasked for comments, advice or opinions will be perceived as criticism or an attack on them rather than being seen as pearls of wisdom. Like it or not, people will be a mirror of ourselves when approached. What I mean by this is, that if you show animosity, the other person will also show animosity towards you. If you are polite and courteous, they will be too. The golden rule applies here, do unto others as you would like them to do to you.

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[RonaldBruno]

16 hours ago, appy said:

Regarding the grandchild's name. You might try using “Maisie” When I looked Maisie up, web pages say it is of Scottish origin and is short for “Margaret”. The meaning is NOT the same as the spelling of Mazi, with a “Z”. Two different spellings and meanings.

You might get away with calling the child Maisie with an “S” and not have your daughter and son-in-law raise eyebrows since it is close to Mazikeen while having a totally different meaning than Mazikeen. But I don't think you need to tell them that there is a difference. Knowing this is more for your benefit, than theirs.

Your daughter and son-in-law made a decision that is out of your hands and control. I'm NOT saying you have to agree with their choice, but that, what is done, is done and move on. 

You must trust the Lord with them, and leave it in His hands. I know that this is much more easily said than done. Take the wrong choices you are concerned about to the Lord, and tell Him all about it, instead of them. God calls us to take everything to Him. Pray without ceasing, and this is no exception.

Ask the Lord to show your child and son-in-law, the reality of the name chosen for their child. Then ask the Lord to use the circumstance to bring about conviction and repentance, leading to salvation for the in-laws and your daughter for continued sanctification. Often Pray, and pray many prayers, both for your own ability to honor God in the circumstance, and for your child’s well-being.

Then rest, knowing that the Lord will give you the strength and courage to hold fast to Him through whatever troubles your child encounters as a result of foolish choices. And remember, you were once foolish, like your grown-up child.

On the matter of giving stern advice which has been brought up in the conversation. Irregardless of who it is, and even if you are right regarding any situation, no hearts or minds will be changed by harsh and judgmental comments or advice.

Any unasked for comments, advice or opinions will be perceived as criticism or an attack on them rather than being seen as pearls of wisdom. Like it or not, people will be a mirror of ourselves when approached. What I mean by this is, that if you show animosity, the other person will also show animosity towards you. If you are polite and courteous, they will be too. The golden rule applies here, do unto others as you would like them to do to you.

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I found resolve in all of this. I received wonderful responses and advice and after some prayer and time, especially after the letter I wrote her, it's not much of an issue anymore. I comfort in the fact that God is sovereign and He has a plan for all of them - regardless of their ways. Actually if many people would rest in Him, the peace is their. We should not fret when we know that He is in control. Like whatever happens on Nov 3rd or 4th or in the coming weeks, there is peace in knowing that He has a plan. Thanks for the advice, others said Mazi for short. I still like her middle name better, Serafina, Sara for short or just Princess.