What is a "soul?"

[Charlie744]

13 minutes ago, rhomphaeam said:

Well Charlie, that diplomatic aberration seems to have left you. Or perhaps the Emperor lost his clothes.  

Apparently, you have already been social distancing from me and have kept your IQ in tacked... God bless, Charlie 

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, Josheb said:

Then fact all that into Jesus' words. I mean if you're gonna read things into his words then read things into them that are consistent with the whole of scripture . 

Thanks Josheb... but I am sure you realize you are going to have to assist me here.... Please elaborate on the inconsistencies... I am certain I am not way of them but that is why I am here .. Charlie 

[Dennis1209]

On 10/23/2020 at 6:52 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, enoob57. 

WOW! I think God PLANNED Genesis 2:7 to be worded just as was needed with people like you in mind! Genesis 2:7 doesn't use the Hebrew word "ruwach," translated as "spirit!" It uses the word "nishmat," which was translated as "the breath" and means "a puff" of air, not "a wind!"

 

I'm personally not very bright, I try to think in simple terms. I liken our tri-part makeup as to a tire. It consists of the rubber tire [our tents - bodies]; an innertube [our souls]; and pressurized air to inflate [our spirit]. All three are individual, and can be separated into three individual parts the way I see it.

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. [emphasis added]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. [emphasis added]

My thoughts are: Our "soul" is who we are; our personality, our likes and dislikes, our belief's and disbelief's, everything that makes us unique and different from everyone else. If you notice the Hebrew wording in Genesis Chapter One; animals also have souls.

Genesis 1:21 (KJV) And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [creature = נֶפֶשׁ nephesh]

Genesis 2:7 (KJV) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. [נֶפֶשׁ nephesh]

Animals and humans also have spirits. For instance, a K-9 is given the spirit and instinct of a dog, not a hippopotamus. I suspect the spirit is the animation part of us; not to be confused with a Christian that accepts Christ and has the Holy Spirit. 

Anyway, that's how this simpleton processes thought?

[Charlie744]

27 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I'm personally not very bright, I try to think in simple terms. I liken our tri-part makeup as to a tire. It consists of the rubber tire [our tents - bodies]; an innertube [our souls]; and pressurized air to inflate [our spirit]. All three are individual, and can be separated into three individual parts the way I see it.

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. [emphasis added]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. [emphasis added]

My thoughts are: Our "soul" is who we are; our personality, our likes and dislikes, our belief's and disbelief's, everything that makes us unique and different from everyone else. If you notice the Hebrew wording in Genesis Chapter One; animals also have souls.

Genesis 1:21 (KJV) And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [creature = נֶפֶשׁ nephesh]

Genesis 2:7 (KJV) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. [נֶפֶשׁ nephesh]

Animals and humans also have spirits. For instance, a K-9 is given the spirit and instinct of a dog, not a hippopotamus. I suspect the spirit is the animation part of us; not to be confused with a Christian that accepts Christ and has the Holy Spirit. 

Anyway, that's how this simpleton processes thought?

The next God does something like this again I think He should place the ingredients on the back or side of us!  I mean, we figured that out... Charlie 

[enoob57]

11 hours ago, Alive said:

Well yes...normally bodies decay. The Lord may have sustained Lazarus body after he fell asleep/died. The point is...the scripture doesn’t say.

Agreed?

No it says Martha said that he was dead now for four days and the body would stink... that's what the Scripture says  

[Charlie744]

57 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

The next God does something like this again I think He should place the ingredients on the back or side of us!  I mean, we figured that out... Charlie 

Sorry Dennis.. I was attempting to make a joke that the next time God creates man that He writes the 3 components of man on the side of him .. (like on the side of a box of cereal..  

 

 

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

A day is currently measured by one rotation of the earth relevant to the sun but there was no sun until the forth day. We have reason, therefore, to understand a "day" is something other than one rotation of the earth relevant to the sun. Either that or Moses was applying post-creation conditions upon creation. 

It is clear by the account 
Gen 1:5
And the evening and the morning were the first day.
KJV
what the meter of creation events were to be... God did not need the sun to establish the meter before He created it...
Moses couldn't have added or subtracted for it was revelatory to mankind what God told Him...

[Retrobyter]

On 12/2/2020 at 11:43 PM, DeighAnn said:

PROBABLY JUST MORE OF THE SAME, BUT This is as far as I made it so far.  BECAUSE

That is the scariest PRESENTATION I have ever heard of as to our "flesh" death and what happenS next.  




Our earthly/terrestrial/corruptible bodies are where our soul (life) and spirit (good or evil) reside, until that flesh gives out.  Then, just like when you put a seed in the ground the seed dies so the plant can grow, we step into our heavenly/celestial/incorruptible bodies and return to God.  
 

Shabbat shalom, DeighAnn.

Relax, sister. First, your presentation of what I believe is wrong. We don't "step into our heavenly/celestial/incorruptible bodies and return to God." That's irresponsible and is definitely non-scriptural.

We await the Resurrection and THEN we step into SERVICE to God our Father and His Messiah Yeshua`! Yeshua` shall be reigning from His father David's throne in Jerusalem, and we shall be doing His bidding, including reigning with Him when we have acquired the wisdom to reign.

On 12/2/2020 at 11:43 PM, DeighAnn said:

Ecclesiastes 12:5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: AND THE SPIRIT SHALL RETURN UNTO GOD WHO GAVE IT.  
 

I HOPE you're not saying that your "spirit" is connected to your body by a "silver cord!" That's the nonsense that comes from people who believe in astral projection! First, there's no such thing: Astral projection is spelled ...
"H-A-L-U-C-I-N-A-T-I-O-N!"
(It may also be spelled "I-M-A-G-I-N-A-T-I-O-N!")
These verses are referring to a time when things break because of decay and long-time use!

A silver chain is a piece of jewelry that gets removed when one dies.

The golden bowl is crushed and squashed out of shape.

The pitcher is a water jar that shatters when one drops it at the spring. (Water is HEAVY!)

The "wheel is broken at the cistern" when the wagon used to cart the water-pots is at its heaviest.

ALL of these say that TIME WEARS OUT EVERYTHING! And, that's true for the human body, as well.

On 12/2/2020 at 11:43 PM, DeighAnn said:

Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

The whole context here is "when they shall rise from the dead," and "as touching the dead, that they rise," i.e., the "Resurrection!"

Yeshua` is NOT saying that Avraham, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqov are CURRENTLY living but  that they SHALL be living in the Resurrection! It was the Sadducees' belief that, once dead, always dead (hmmm.... ODAD?)

On 12/2/2020 at 11:43 PM, DeighAnn said:

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Yes, these verses are true, but the COMMONLY HELD view of the pretrib rapturists is that God brings those who are asleep with Jesus from Heaven TO BE resurrected.

Another viewpoint that is more consistent with Jewish thinking is that God will bring those asleep, now reawakened in the Resurrection, with Yeshua` as He returns to the Middle East, to Israel, and to Yerushalayim ("Jerusalem"), the City of the Great King.

On 12/2/2020 at 11:43 PM, DeighAnn said:

1Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

1Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

1Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

1Corinthians 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

1Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
 

I have studied these verses at length in the Greek. A "spiritual body," "sooma pneumatikon," is not an "intangible, immaterial" body. Rather, it is compared to a "sooma psuchikon," an "air-breathing body," (poorly translated as a "natural body"). Thus, it is the difference between comparing the normal in-and-out breathing to the BLASTING of a high WIND! Paul is here talking about the resurrected body being MUCH STRONGER than the weak body that we currently are. Thus, a "sooma pneumatikon" is an "air-BLASTING body!"

Furthermore, all of these verses, indeed the whole chapter, are talking about the RESURRECTION! (Which is not "seven years before the Second Coming" but is just MINUTES before the Second Coming of Yeshua` to Israel! NO ONE "goes to Heaven" after the Rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4!)

On 12/2/2020 at 11:43 PM, DeighAnn said:

2Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
 

Yes, and like the thief on the cross beside the cross of Yeshua`, we, too, at death will next experience the Resurrection - the "Great Gettin'-Up Morning!" It will seem as though no time has passed at all! Like a blink, we will close our eyes in death and snap them open in the Resurrection, ready for our King to begin His reign!

On 12/2/2020 at 11:43 PM, DeighAnn said:

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Luke 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

As I've already mentioned, these verses show LOTS of clues that these men have ALREADY BEEN RESURRECTED by this time in verse 23 and beyond, the Great White Throne Judgment and the Resurrection of the Unjust!

The Greek word translated as "hell" in verse 23 is "hadee," assumed to refer to the Greek mythology of their god "Hades." Actually, the Greek word means "not-seen" or the "unseen" and refers to the GRAVE in which they were buried! It's a close approximation to the Hebrew word "sh'owl" (often written "Sheol"), which means "asked about," because it was at the grave site, memorial, tomb, or mausoleum that children would "ask about" their ancestors. So, they would "ask about" the ones they could "not see" any longer.

On 12/2/2020 at 11:43 PM, DeighAnn said:

Ezekiel 44:19 And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments.

Ezekiel 44:20 Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads.

Ezekiel 44:21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.

Ezekiel 44:22 Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before.

Ezekiel 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

Ezekiel 44:24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.

Ezekiel 44:25 And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves.

 

This is talking about the Millennium which comes from two Latin words, "mille" meaning a "thousand" and "annum" meaning "year." The term means "a thousand years." The Greek of this concept is found six times in Revelation 20:1-7 and are the words "chilia etee," "chilia" meaning a "thousand" and "etee" meaning "years."

Some people mistakenly say that this is the "thousand-year reign of Christ," but that's not accurate because we also can read this:

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

Rather, one should say, "the FIRST 1000 years of the reign of Christ." And, technically, the words really refer to how long haSatan shall be imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit before being released.

[Dennis1209]

13 hours ago, rhomphaeam said:

Having no desire to correct you brother, but it isn't sound to attribute to animals the same attributes as man. Animals do not have the breath of God in them. They are however, souls and bodies. Perhaps someone else may explain it but I simply wanted to say it. God Bless. 

Addendum: By which I mean having a spirit. Not having breath.

I don't recall saying any such thing about God breathed? Animals [with nostrils] have the breath of life and a spirit, as stated above in context with Hebrew Semantics. 

Genesis 7:15 (KJV) And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. [emphasis added] Breath = rûwach

Ecclesiastes 3:21 (KJV) Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? [emphasis added] spirit = rûwach. Beast = bᵉhêmâh, cattle; animal.

For my benefit, please set me straight.

[Retrobyter]

On 12/3/2020 at 12:09 AM, DeighAnn said:

You are a son of God, correct?   Yes.  Good.



 when was this?  


Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Shabbat shalom, again, DeighAnn.

You should understand that Job 38 is NOT about the Creation of the earth. It is the RE-FORMING of the earth after the Flood! There are a few contextual clues that suggest this:

Job 38:1-18 (KJV)

1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 

4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 "Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? 9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, 10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, 11 And said, 'Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?'

12 "Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; 13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? 14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment. 15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.

16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth? 17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death? 18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all! ..."

1) The "laying of the foundation of the earth" is talking about the bedrock of the dry land; yet the earth's crust was broken apart during the days of the Flood.

Genesis 7:6-8:22 (KJV)

6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth. 7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood. 8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, 9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; 14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. 15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. 16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth. 18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. 23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. 24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged; 2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; 3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. 4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. 5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.

6 And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made: 7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth. 8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; 9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark. 10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; 11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth. 12 And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.

13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry. 14 And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried. 15 And God spake unto Noah, saying, 

16 "Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee. 17 Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth."

18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him: 19Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.

20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart,

"I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. 22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease."

 

It's amazing to me that the children are taught that it rained 40 days and 40 nights, but they know so little about what happened AFTER that! The Flood was a GLOBAL Deluge of water that was 15 cubits (at least 22.5 feet, depending on the length of Noach's "cubit") above the highest mountains at the time! What this tells us is that the ark had a water displacement of 15 cubits so that the path of the ark in the high winds that whipped about the globe during that one full year of water inundation would NEVER drag bottom on any mountain peak until the day that it settled upon the mountains of Ararat! That Flood was FAR different than any other flood of water people have experienced since then!

2) The "sea breaking forth" is the Flood of water itself, and God's "shutting up the sea in doors" is when God caused the waters from above and FROM BELOW to cease. That's why it is "DOORS" DUAL-PLURAL, bidlaatayim! 

3) Clouds were established at that time. 

Job 38:9 talks about clouds, even thick clouds so that they were dark and ominous! However, if one looks at the world before the Flood in Genesis 2, clouds were not present in that environment! Instead, every morning a "mist went up from the ground that watered the plants."

Genesis 2:4-6 (KJV)

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

See, a "cloud" is defined as "a visible mass of condensed water vapor floating in the atmosphere, typically high above the ground," and we learn from basic science that this water vapor, normally invisible, condenses as water droplets on particles aloft in the sky, such as smoke particles and dust. It is the CONDENSED water droplets and particles that we see as "clouds." Before the Flood, the conditions were such that clouds weren't possible. First, there weren't that many dust particles in the air, yet. Second, from the description above, the dew point was normally MUCH lower than it is today. It's the dew point that is the air temperature/pressure balance that allows for clouds to be seen. On a still day with fluffy, cumulous clouds, the dew point is that flat base that one sees under the clouds. One can even watch the dew point rise when the day starts with a patch of fog in still air and the fog lifts until it becomes a cumulous cloud.

4) Verses 10 and 11 talk about the continental shelves being established.

The "bars and doors" that stand at the edge of the shore that limit the size of the wave that makes it to land are the continental shelves.

A wave is a FULL CYCLE of wave energy with both a top side we can see and a bottom side that is underwater and invisible to the observer. It's most often experienced by the "undertow" that one feels when one is swimming in the ocean. It's felt as the pulling of the water from the sand beneath your feet as the water rushes back out after a wave hits the land.

Ocean waves far from land can be quite large! That's why it's dangerous for small vessels to be too far out from land. If a storm blows up, such waves can be so large as to easily capsize small vessels. However, the full cycle of a wave is limited by the depth of the ocean bottom at the continental shelf. The wave at the top is limited by how much of the cycle can be underwater. Less water between sea level and the ocean floor on the shelf means less water on the top of the cycle above sea level to make a wave.

Again, this is a RESULT of the Flood.

On 12/3/2020 at 12:09 AM, DeighAnn said:

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Not go to God who made it BUT RETURN to God who GAVE it.  
 

Shall we check that? Let's look up the Hebrew of Ecclesiastes 12:7:

Kohelet 12:7

7 VyaashoV he`aafaar `al-haa'aarets kshehaayaah vhaaruwach taashuwV el-haa'elohiym asher ntaanaah:

7 VyaashoV = 7 And-will-return
he`aafaar = the-dust
`al- = upon/above/over
haa'aarets = the-earth/land
kshehaayaah; = as-it-was;
vhaaruwach = and-the-wind/breath
taashuwV = will-return
el- = to/into/towards
haa'elohiym = the-God
Asher = who
ntaanaah: = gave/lent-it:

This last word is very nebulous: Here is a list of all the ways the word was used:

 

abandon (1), add (1), added (1), allow (14), allowed (3), applied (1), appoint (5), appointed (15), apportion (1), appropriated (1), ascribe (2), ascribed (2), assigned (5), bear (1), bestow (1), bestowed (2), blame* (1), bring (10), bring down (2), bringing (2), brings (2), brought (3), cast (3), cause (2), causes (1), certainly be given (1), certainly give (1), comes (1), commit (1), committed (1), conferred (1), consider (1), consign (1), contribute (1), cried (1), dedicated (1), defeat (1), deliver (26), delivered (26), delivers (3), designate (1), designated (1), direct (1), display (1), displayed (1), distribute (2), divide (1), enabled (1), entrust* (1), entrusted (2), entrusted* (1), establish (1), established (1), exchange (1), execute (1), executes (2), fasten (2), fastened (1), find (1), furnishing (1), gave (293), generously give (1), gift (1), give (491), given (259), gives (67), giving (37), grant (18), granted (11), growl* (1), had (3), hand over (2), hang (3), has had (1), have (2), have* (1), heap (1), held (1), hung (1), impose (1), imposed (3), indeed deliver (1), indeed give (1), inflict (2), inflicted (1), injured* (1), injures* (1), inserted (1), instilled (4), issued (5), kept giving (1), laid (5), lay (12), laying (1), lays (1), left (2), left hanging (1), lend (1), lends (1), let (7), lies* (1), lift (5), lifts (1), made (43), made turn (3), make (66), makes (3), making (3), marry off (1), offer (2), offered (4), Oh* (13), open* (1), over (1), paid (7), pay (6), performed (1), permit (2), pierce (1), pitch (1), place (13), placed (19), planted (1), pledged (2), pledged* (1), present (2), presented (1), prevent* (2), produces (1), provide (1), provided (2), provides (1), put (192), puts (4), putting (2), raised (2), reduces (1), render (2), repay (1), Requite (2), requited (1), roared loudly* (1), roared* (1), send (4), sends (1), sent (4), set (74), setting (5), show (2), showed (1), slander* (1), sounds forth (1), sparkles* (1), speaks forth (1), spend (1), spread (1), strike (1), submitted* (1), supplies (1), surely be given (1), surely give (2), take (2), taken (1), takes (1), to pay (1), took (1), traded (1), turned (6), used (1), utter (1), uttered (2), uttered forth (1), utters (5), wept* (1), wholly given (2), work (1), would* (7), yield (13), yield* (1), yielded (2), yields (2), yours (1).
 

 

On 12/3/2020 at 12:09 AM, DeighAnn said:

Jacob I loved, Esau I hated.  Not I am going to love, future tense, but loved, past tense.

No argument here.

On 12/3/2020 at 12:09 AM, DeighAnn said:

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Nor here. See, God is the One who said,

Isaiah 46:9-10 (KJV)

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

He doesn't just KNOW the end from the beginning, He DECLARES it! That doesn't mean that we were there at all!