What is a "soul?"

[enoob57]

On 10/20/2020 at 9:36 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom to all.

Come on, now. Why do theologians claim that there's such a thing as an "immortal soul?" An "immortal air-breathing-creature?" CAN there be such a thing? If so, WHEN?

It is in the simplicity of Scripture we understand that our physical makeup is of the clay but life did not come to the clay until God breathed (spirit) into the clay and it was then classified as a living soul for God claimed while in flesh
John 14:6 (NKJV) [6] Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 1:1-4 (NKJV) [1]  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] He was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. [4] In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 
 

[Retrobyter]

48 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Our soul meets with our body and our body is then a glorified resurrected body. This happens with the believers. Although the soul meets with the resurrected body for those who are not believers as well to be judged at the Great White Throne judgment. They will all be thrown into hell with a eternal and conscious awareness forever and ever never ending. 

Shalom, missmuffet.

Okay, so now we're introducing other passages of Scripture, namely 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 and Revelation 20:7-12, right? So, let's bring them into the mix, so to speak:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (KJV)

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Without changing any of the wording in either Greek or English, let's look at how this passage of Scripture could be interpreted differently: Suppose for a moment that you had no idea where people who died go. For all you know, they could be just dead in the ground.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 

Okay, so we're talking about those who are "asleep"; isn't that how Yeshua` used the term?

Luke 8: (KJV)

40 And it came to pass, that, when Jesus was returned, the people gladly received him: for they were all waiting for him. 41 And, behold, there came a man named Jairus, and he was a ruler of the synagogue: and he fell down at Jesus' feet, and besought him that he would come into his house: 42 For he had one only daughter, about twelve years of age, and she lay a dying. But as he went the people thronged him.

43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any, 44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched. 45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me? 46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me. 47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately. 48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

(So, He was slightly delayed in coming to Jairus' house.)

49 While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's house, saying to him,

"Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master."

50 But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying,

"Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole."

51 And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden. 52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said,

"Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth."

53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead. 54 And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying,

"Maid, arise."

55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat. 56 And her parents were astonished: but he charged them that they should tell no man what was done.

And, here's another example:

John 11:1-44 (KJV)

1 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.) 3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying,

"Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick."

4 When Jesus heard that, he said,

"This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby."

5 Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus. 6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was. 7 Then after that saith he to his disciples,

"Let us go into Judaea again."

8 His disciples say unto him,

"Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?"

9 Jesus answered,

"Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. 10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him."

11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them,

"Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep."

12 Then said his disciples,

"Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well."

13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly,

"Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him."

16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellowdisciples,

"Let us also go, that we may die with him."

17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already. 18 Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off: 19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother. 20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house. 21 Then said Martha unto Jesus,

"Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. 22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee."

23 Jesus saith unto her,

"Thy brother shall rise again."

24 Martha saith unto him,

"I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

25 Jesus said unto her,

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

27 She saith unto him,

"Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world."

28 And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying,

"The Master is come, and calleth for thee."

29 As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly, and came unto him.

30 Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met him. 31 The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying,

"She goeth unto the grave to weep there."

32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him,

"Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died."

33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, 34 And said,

"Where have ye laid him?"

They said unto him,

"Lord, come and see."

35 Jesus wept. 36 Then said the Jews,

"Behold how he loved him!"

37 And some of them said,

"Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?"

38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it. 39 Jesus said,

"Take ye away the stone."

Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him,

"Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days."

40 Jesus saith unto her,

"Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?"

41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said,

"Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. 42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me."

43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice,

"Lazarus, come forth!" 

44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them,

"Loose him, and let him go."

(Sorry for quoting a whole chapter, but I just LOVE this account!)

Notice that Yeshua` did NOT have to call Lazarus' spirit back from Sheol, or from Paradise, or from Heaven! He just "woke him up," resurrecting him!

So, look at the next verse of 1 Thessalonians 4:

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 

See the context? If we believe that Yeshua` died and ROSE AGAIN, EVEN SO them also which "sleep" in Yeshua` shall be RESURRECTED and God shall bring them with Yeshua` "from wherever" they were resurrected to wherever He is going after all are gathered!

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

From there wherever we were resurrected or changed, we all, those ONCE dead - ONCE "asleep" - in Yeshua and those still alive in Yeshua` shall be caught up together ... in the clouds, to meet the Lord (Yeshua`) in the air! And, like that - in that way - we shall ever be with the Lord Yeshua`! Now, the REAL question is this: Where will HE go from being in the air, in the clouds? If He goes back to the New Jerusalem above the sky ("epouranioo," Hebrews 12:22), THEN we'll "go to 'Heaven'." However, if, as I suspect, Yeshua` will at that time be on a zealous mission to rescue and avenge His people Israel, THEN we'll be on our way TO THE MIDDLE EAST, instead!

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

It is in the simplicity of Scripture we understand that our physical makeup is of the clay but life did not come to the clay until God breathed (spirit) into the clay and it was then classified as a living soul for God claimed while in flesh
John 14:6 (NKJV) [6] Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 1:1-4 (NKJV) [1]  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] He was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. [4] In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 
 

Shabbat shalom, enoob57. 

WOW! I think God PLANNED Genesis 2:7 to be worded just as was needed with people like you in mind! Genesis 2:7 doesn't use the Hebrew word "ruwach," translated as "spirit!" It uses the word "nishmat," which was translated as "the breath" and means "a puff" of air, not "a wind!"

 

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Our soul meets with our body and our body is then a glorified resurrected body. This happens with the believers. Although the soul meets with the resurrected body for those who are not believers as well to be judged at the Great White Throne judgment. They will all be thrown into hell with a eternal and conscious awareness forever and ever never ending. 

Shabbat shalom, missmuffet.

Here's the Strong's entry on "nefesh" translated as "soul":

5315 nephesh [nefesh] (neh'-fesh). From naphash [naafash]; properly, an [air] breathing creature, i.e. Animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)
-- any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

And, as it says, this word comes from "naafash":

5314 naphash [naafash] (naw-fash'). A primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air)
-- (be) refresh selves (-ed).

So, let's look at your words:

Quote

Our air-breathing creature meets with our body and our body is then a glorified resurrected body. This happens with the believers. Although the air-breathing creature meets with the resurrected body for those who are not believers as well to be judged at the Great White Throne judgment, they will all be thrown into hell with a eternal and conscious awareness forever and ever never ending.

Can you see how this is redundant and contrary to the TRUE simplicity of the Bible? A human "air-breathing creature" IS a human "body!" One's human body IS the creature (the created being) that breathes air! We ARE our bodies! We don't "HAVE bodies!" Please, don't let theological rhetoric get in your way.

[enoob57]

57 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, enoob57. 

WOW! I think God PLANNED Genesis 2:7 to be worded just as was needed with people like you in mind! Genesis 2:7 doesn't use the Hebrew word "ruwach," translated as "spirit!" It uses the word "nishmat," which was translated as "the breath" and means "a puff" of air, not "a wind!"

 

God exist ‘IS’ listed as Spirit:
John 4:24 (NKJV) [24] “God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 
Thus that which was expelled from God ‘breath’ must also be Spirit... as we see this at Pentecost :
Acts 2:2-4 (NKJV) [2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. [3] Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. [4] And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

We also have Jesus associating it with this:
John 20:22 (NKJV) [22] And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 

I believe it is safe to understand the breath of life was Spirit infused into clay Bringing life to the clay/dust... 

[Charlie744]

The Retrobyter, this is an interesting topic and I started to think about it when I saw your post.

If you do not mind, I would like to mention some thoughts on this that WILL be very different than those already posted to this topic... they are just some “thinking out loud” if you will. 

So, God made Adam out the dust and then breathe into him and he became a “living soul”. What does this mean?

I think it means more than just Him breathing air into his lungs. Earlier, God created the animals/birds, etc., who also breath but He did not breathe air into them. 

We know that God made Adam in His image, unlike any other living being so His breathing into Adam is something very special. 

Even before the earth or the heavens was “The Word”. So perhaps God breathed “His Word” into Adam and this created a “living soul” - not just a living creature.

Now we have God and Adam in Eden together. Later, both Adam and Eve fell from grace and were removed from Eden at which time they “lost their soul”, if you will. They became a “living being” since they disobeyed God and He could not exist in the presence of anything unholy. They lost their soul - they lost their “Word” given to them by God in the garden.

Now we find mankind on the other side of Eden and we need or want to get back there. The only way to get there is to regain our “Word” or holiness before God is able to be with us. 

God gives Moses His Word to show us the way back. Unfortunately, we all now understand just how impossible it is for us to keep His Law and be cleansed. 

God will send The Messiah to earth and pay the price for our sins. This is the only path to salvation. It does not mean the Law was done away with but there now exists a “Word” that we can offer or say which will wipe away our sins and restore our “soul”. 

Now Paul might be telling us in Thess. that he hopes that we have preserved our body, our soul (belief in Jesus) and become once again a “Living Soul”. 

But there is one thing that has changed since Eden where there were the two components- dust and His Word = Living Soul. And this would be the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was not necessary for God to form this “Living Soul”. But on this side of Eden we MUST have the Holy Spirit with us / inside us in order to be successful in bringing His Word or Soul back into us and place us in the same status as we were in Eden. 

So Paul is saying that he hopes all three are working together to “make us whole” again WHEN the Lord returns. 

Should we die before He returns our body returns to the ground, His Word returns to Him, and the Spirit continues forever, of course. 

When Jesus returns, for those who died in Christ, He will return His Word into our resurrected bodies and, once again be able to be in His presence for eternity. 

For those who have rejected the Holy Spirit, and have NOT died in Christ, their bodies will also be resurrected but because His “Word or Soul” will not be found within their body (rejected), they are not able to be in the presence of God and will perish at His site. 

Just some thoughts... look forward to your response, Happy Sabbath, Charlie 

 

 

 

[Speks]

Views on soul, spirit and the works of the flesh:

https://handtotheploughblog.wordpress.com/self/

Available as a PDF file: SELF

___

“For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out” (Romans 7:18, ESV).

What is the soul, and why must it be spiritually controlled?

We learn from Scripture that "spirit" represents life. In the beginning the first man was lifeless until he received "the breath of life" from the Lord God (Genesis 2:7). In time Adam's spirit departed and his body was lifeless again. "...the body without the spirit is dead" (James 2:26; see also Ecclesiastes 12:7). All who have followed Adam are given breath and spirit (see Isaiah 42:5), and as we shall see, those who are Christ's are given the Holy Spirit.

"God is Spirit" (John 4:24), and it is the Spirit Who gives us spiritual life (6:63). God's Spirit lives in those who have believed in Christ, who were formally dead in sin and under wrath (see Ephesians 2). It is crucial we fully understand our spiritual position in Christ and recognise the dangers of being dominated and contaminated by self. By His indwelling Spirit God can free us from our natural inclinations allowing us to clearly understand His will for us.

When we place our faith in Christ we are born anew and enter into a spiritual relationship with God. It is a spiritual birth: "...that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6); "...you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him" (Romans 8:9). “...Jesus Christ is in you” (2nd Corinthians 13:5). The Lord Jesus is the Spirit.

Christ in us is life and strength. The Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from sin and death (Romans 8:2). Because we have been made alive with Him (Ephesians 2:5) our bodies are now the dwelling place of God: “...do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?” (1st Corinthians 6:19, NASB). Living sinfully will weaken us (Psalm 31:10), but the Spirit of the Lord within us is our strength: "...strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith" (Ephesians 3:16, 17, NASB).

Christ in us is spiritual understanding. The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirits that we are His children (Romans 8:16). “Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God” (1st Corinthians 2:12, ESV). (Also read John 14:26; Romans 8:26, 27; 1st Corinthians 6:17; Galatians 2:20; 1st John 2:20; 27.) It’s important to remember that when we believe God is leading us and working in us each day, His influence will always tally with the balanced fullness of His written Word. Let Scripture be your essential guiding light. Each day invite Him to speak to you in your "heart" (consider Ephesians 1:18). Enjoy the fullness of your salvation and have a heart that is willing to hear and respond (Psalm 51:12).

His Holy Spirit is Life to us and searches the depths of God comprehending His thoughts. In response to our growing faith He teaches us all things and reinforces His Truth in and through our spirits. “The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. ‘For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?’ But we have the mind of Christ” (1st Corinthians 2:15, 16, ESV). We need to hear Him clearly each day so we can apprehend His will for us and work for Him constructively.

Failure to hear from God – not having a spirit that is in touch with His wisdom and revelation – is a spiritual deafness that causes us to be governed by self. There are times when we need to spiritually discern God's will for us (1st Corinthians 2:14). He desires to give us "…the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened… (Ephesians 1:17, 18, ESV); “…be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding” (Colossians 1:9, ESV).

Do we truly believe that “nothing good” dwells in us? If so, we know that whatever comes entirely from self will always be unsound. Scripture reveals that the soul is the seat of a person's personality. It is the essence of who he or she is, with or without God's influence. It is our natural identity. It consists of the mind's thoughts, with all its emotions and intentions, preferences and dislikes, and so on:

"For the word of God is living and active and full of power [making it operative, energizing, and effective]. It is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating as far as the division of the soul and spirit [the completeness of a person], and of both joints and marrow [the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and judging the very thoughts and intentions of the heart. And not a creature exists that is concealed from His sight, but all things are open and exposed, and revealed to the eyes of Him with whom we have to give account" (Hebrews 4:12, 13, Amplified Bible).

It is the Spirit alone Who brings inner life and true spiritual insight. Human nature is contrary to the mind of Christ. We will profit from His Spiritual Life when we are changed by Christ's Word to us. (Consider John 6:63.) His Word is to live in us richly (Colossians 3:16). If by faith we hear and embrace God's Word, there will be times it will surely divide us and show us where we need to change. We should remember too in passing that our minds control our bodies. Where there is no clear division of soul and spirit we may be tempted to use our bodies sinfully. We are commanded to glorify God in our bodies. (Read 1st Corinthians 6:19, 20.) Allowing God's living Word to divide soul from spirit is essential if we are to keep the whole person pure and be centred in His will. To continually and successfully resist all personal fleshly impulses we must recognise what comes from self, the soul.

Soul-centric believers who rarely, if ever, experience "the division of the soul and spirit" are easily controlled by a “carnal” mindset. In Scripture this is the hallmark of the spiritually immature. For example: "And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly [carnal]. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?" (1st Corinthians 3:1-3, NASB).

In the book of James we read that similar "soulish" behaviour was causing problems among believers. Scripture may suggest here that carnal Christians can be influenced by our spiritual enemy: "This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual [Greek: “soulish”], demonic" (3:15, ESV). (Also consider Judas in John 13:2; 6:70; 13:27.) It is clear then that to avoid fleshly, disruptive behaviour your soul needs to be under the direct control of God's Holy Spirit through your spirit. So you will need His living Word to divide you to show you the full extent of what is untrustworthy and carnal, even though you may be convinced you do not need help or correction.

Human nature is thoroughly corrupt (see Jeremiah 17:9 and Matthew 15:19). Self is the full expression of our fallen soul-life. It is by nature contrary to Christ's influence and control. To enjoy all that God would share with us, self with its many thoughts and intentions must be divided from the spirit, where God lives. With self exposed, judged and brought under control, we will freely hear from God, and His Word will become alive within us. If by faith we are willing, His Spirit can perfectly reveal the self-serving nature of our innermost motivations and thoughts. If we prayerfully yearn to distrust and deny self, we will experience life according to God's will. We will live according to the Spirit when we habitually set our minds on the things of the Spirit (see Romans 8:5). In other words, we will be sensitive to the "mindset of the Spirit" (consider 8:6, 7 in the CSB; "spiritually minded", NASB).

If a division doesn’t regularly take place, we will be more likely to lean on our own abilities and intellect while trying to follow Christ. But we dare not lean on our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5). If the soul dominates our Christian walk we will be vulnerable to other dangers. If we remain “soulish” we will struggle against the works of the flesh, sometimes with dreadful results (see below). Those who are literally full of themselves cannot be led by God’s Spirit in their spirits. Their efforts will revolve around self and will not further the work of God. They will be blind to the fact that their activities may in fact be harmful.

Many of those who are governed by self have a tendency to be wordy and crushingly intellectual, overbearingly eager to share what they know. They often take delight in discussing irrelevancies, or in being different to the majority. Soulish believers who are very knowledgeable (or think they are) often focus on getting the better of those around them rather than humbly sharing their knowledge in the hope they might enrich others. Some have influential and magnetic personalities that draw many Christians to causes that hamper the work of God and result in distracting quarrels and damaging conflicts.

Soul-driven believers are often content with a comfortable religious routine that rarely exposes them to God’s instruction and correction. Others are religiously self-righteous. Many instances of disharmony are caused by the stubborn work of the soul, often through those who, lacking humility, see themselves as being able to teach. Teaching from the soul is precarious. This is why an illiterate person who comes to Christ can have spiritual wisdom and understanding found lacking in those who have been to seminary.

So we know that the human spirit has been made alive in Christ through faith in Him and His sacrificial work. By prayerfully and faithfully remaining in Christ and heeding His teaching, we will experience a spiritual awareness that overcomes the potent impulses of the soul (self, with all of its thoughts and intentions). In this standing the human spirit can have a dual awareness: through the Holy Spirit Who dwells within, each spirit can effectively evaluate a person's thoughts and also be free to know the mind of Christ. (Consider 1st Corinthians 2:9-16.)

We have been crucified with Christ. “…those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit” (Galatians 5:24, 25, ESV). We will keep in step with the Spirit if we heed His Word and allow Him to show us those carnal characteristics that are still rooted in our personalities and behaviour.

In claiming our death with Christ, and by actively abiding in Him daily, our souls will gradually be conformed into His image. When we fully acknowledge nothing good dwells in us, we will allow the Holy Spirit to freely work through our spirits. In this way we will effectively be subjected to His will. We will be changed.

“…the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty” (2nd Corinthians 3:17, NASB).

“Jesus answered him, ‘If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him’” (John 14:23, ESV).

The Works of the Flesh in the Believer’s Life

"Now the practices of the sinful nature are clearly evident: they are sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality (total irresponsibility, lack of self-control), idolatry, sorcery, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions [that promote heresies], envy, drunkenness, riotous behavior, and other things like these. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-21, Amplified Bible).

From the earliest days of the Church, countless believers have struggled against some of "the works of the flesh" – those ugly practices of human nature that hold us back from giving our all to Christ. In New Testament letters Christians were repeatedly reminded to live honest and pure lives in Christ, in accordance with sound teaching. Although called to be holy and set apart (sanctified), they were instead clearly troubled by carnal behaviour and attitudes.

A passage in Galatians 5 is key to understanding the practices of the sinful nature in the life of the believer: “…walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh” (v. 16, ESV). By implication we can understand that the opposite is true: if believers do not willingly abide in Christ daily – if they don't walk in the ways of the Spirit Who dwells within them – it’s inevitable that they will allow the flesh to rise up and contaminate their walk with Christ. As we saw earlier, by faith they must allow God’s truths to pierce deep within them, highlighting the sinfulness of their harmful soulish ways.

“…those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit." (Galatians 5:24, 25, NASB). This reminds us that we must consider our flesh crucified with Christ. We are no longer dead in our sins because we have been made alive in Christ. We no longer need to be slaves to the demands of our sinful fallen nature. We must actively "put to death" fleshly impulses (Colossians 3:5). Turn from them! We cannot allow them to control us. If we are careless and do not live by the Spirit (abiding in Christ by faith), we run the risk of experiencing increasing struggles with our flesh.

When thinking about "the practices of the sinful nature", the difference between a believer’s experience and that of an unbeliever is profound. Obviously the unbeliever knows nothing of fleshly impulses clashing with the desires of the Holy Spirit: “…the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you [true believers] may not do the things that you please” (Galatians 5:17, NASB).

God intends that His people should be led by His Spirit Who lives within. To freely enjoy this relationship they must be able to recognise when their souls have the upper hand. They must know when self is blocking the Life-flow of the Spirit. They can experience an ongoing pure relationship with the Lord when they willingly and habitually die to self and deny its fleshly impulses. In this spiritually healthy condition they will experience the fruit of the Spirit. Their lives will be characterised by: "…love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (vs. 22, 23, ESV).

Paul’s warning at the end of verse 21 is a sobering reminder to all believers that those who willfully practise the works of the flesh will not be accepted by God. Under the Holy Spirit's inspiration he spells out clearly what these practices are. It’s most important to remember that to “practise” the works of the flesh is to do them repeatedly and habitually.

Would we expect a true believer in Christ, in whom God’s Spirit lives, to willingly, repeatedly and continually commit various sins as part of his general lifestyle? No, we would not. He could not live this way because to do so would demonstrate his unbelieving indifference to sin. He may well experience testing inner struggles, but the believer’s ongoing lifestyle will not be characterised by a casual attitude to sin. This is very different to those who "practise" wrongdoing habitually, who will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Finally, it’s worth underlining here that true believers can struggle with sin very badly for long periods of time. In that condition they should expect to be conflicted. It is this struggle with the invasive power of their sinful nature that will remind them they have wandered far from God’s narrow path. Many prodigal sons and daughters have turned back after wasting their time with sin.

Renew your allegiance to Christ early each morning and review your journey with Him last thing each night.

“…put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts” (Romans 13:14, NASB).

“Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul” (1st Peter 2:11, ESV).

 

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Speks
New edit

[enoob57]

4 hours ago, Speks said:

Our bodies are the dwelling place of God. The Holy Spirit is life to us because Christ lives within us. The Holy Spirit searches the depths of God and comprehends His thoughts. We need to hear clearly from God in our day to day experiences so we can know His will for us and work for Him effectively and constructively.

I see the absolute of this is His Word
2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV) [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 

[Retrobyter]

12 hours ago, enoob57 said:

God exist ‘IS’ listed as Spirit:
John 4:24 (NKJV) [24] “God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 
Thus that which was expelled from God ‘breath’ must also be Spirit... as we see this at Pentecost :
Acts 2:2-4 (NKJV) [2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. [3] Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. [4] And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

We also have Jesus associating it with this:
John 20:22 (NKJV) [22] And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 

I believe it is safe to understand the breath of life was Spirit infused into clay Bringing life to the clay/dust... 

Shabbat shalom, enoob57.

I don't doubt any of what you've quoted; HOWEVER, what do you mean by "spirit?" More importantly, what does the Bible mean by "spirit?" For that matter, do you know what it means to "worship God?"

We use words like "worship," "spirit," "soul," and "church" without a clear meaning of the terms! When we do so, we MAKE UP meanings that may or may not be true! Without clear teaching, we get it "by osmosis," that is, we get it through common usage. We hear words used in a particular way, and ASSUME a particular, unclear definition of the word from how the word is used in context.

It's like the name and titles of Yeshua`: When I was growing up, I was taught always to refer to Him as "the Lord Jesus Christ," but it took several YEARS, mostly of independent study, before I knew what I was talking about, what the name and titles meant! "Lord" was the first word I understood because of our common English heritage, but I was never TAUGHT in Sunday school or church what it meant! FOR YEARS, I thought "Jesus" was His first name, His given name, and "Christ" was His second name, His surname. I don't know HOW MUCH time went by before I learned that "Christ" was a TITLE! If I thought for one moment that somebody already KNEW this and just refused to tell us what it meant, I would have been FURIOUS, but I really don't think anyone else really knew that point, either! And, THAT is a crying shame!

Later, when I went to a Bible college, I was taught that "Christ" meant that He was the "Son of God." This came from one of the verses I quoted above,

Luke 8:27 (KJV)

27 She saith unto him,

"Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world."

It wasn't until I acquired a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance while I was at this Bible college that I started to learn the meaning of the names. At first, I used it merely as I was used to doing with the limited concordances in the back of the Bibles I have owned. Then, I started to investigate the numbers that trailed to the side of the identification for the word in a particular verse. In my version of Strong's, I learned that the normal block numbers were linked to the Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary in the back of the Concordance and the italicized numbers were linked to the Greek Dictionary in the back.

As a kid, I used to read English dictionaries, thesauruses, and encyclopedias FOR FUN! (I know, "Weird kid!") So, this was a NEW fun I embraced, and I read through the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, looking up verses and creating charts for all the links in the entries that were found in its dictionaries for a particular English word. I looked up things like "heaven," "hell," "church," "worship," "Christ," and followed the many links to other words, their synonyms, and their antonyms with a thesaurus of the English language.

In the course of events, I learned that "Christos" was the Greek translation of the Hebrew word "Mashiyach," that "Christos" was transliterated into English as "Christ" and that "Mashiyach" was transliterated into English as "Messiah." Thus, "Christ" = "Messiah."

The word "worship" in John 4 refers to "bowing down" before someone, indeed, it rather means to "prostrate oneself" before someone! I'd say that most use the word somewhat differently today.

4352 proskuneoo (pros-too-neh'-o). From pros and a probable derivative of kuon (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore)
-- worship.

And, to "prostrate oneself" means ...

prostrate oneself
he prostrated himself on the altar mat: THROW ONESELF FLAT, throw oneself down, lie down, stretch oneself out, bow low, throw oneself at someone's feet; dated measure one's length."

And, "spirit" is defined in the OT:

7307 ruwach (roo'-akh). From ruwach; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. A sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions)
-- air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit((-ual)), tempest, X vain, ((whirl-))wind(-y).

7306 ruwach (roo-akh'). A primitive root; properly, to blow, i.e. Breathe; only (literally) to smell or (by implication, perceive (figuratively, to anticipate, enjoy)
-- accept, smell, X touch, make of quick understanding.

And, in the NT:

4151 pneuma (pnyoo'-mah). From pneoo; a current of air, i.e. Breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit
-- ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare psuchee.

4154 pneoo (pneh'-o). A primary word; to breathe hard, i.e. Breeze
-- blow. Compare psuchoo. 

 

[Retrobyter]

14 hours ago, Speks said:

“It is the Spirit who gives life”; “So it is written: The first man Adam became a living soul; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.”
(John 6:36; 1st Corinthians 15:45)

What the soul does, and why it must be spiritually controlled

God is Spirit and lives within those who are accepted in Christ by faith, who were formally spiritually dead in sin and under wrath. The spiritual aspect of our relationship with God is crucial in understanding His will for us. His revealed intentions for us will always be consistent with the balanced fullness of Scriptural revelation.

Our bodies are the dwelling place of God. The Holy Spirit is life to us because Christ lives within us. The Holy Spirit searches the depths of God and comprehends His thoughts. We need to hear clearly from God in our day to day experiences so we can know His will for us and work for Him constructively.

The soul is the seat of our personality. It consists of the mind's thoughts, with our emotions and intentions, our preferences and dislikes, and so on. The soul also governs our bodies and can lead us to use them sinfully. Soul-centric believers are quickly controlled by a “carnal” mindset that is the hallmark of the spiritually immature.  

Failure to hear from God – not having a spirit that is in touch with His wisdom and revelation (see Ephesians 1:17) – is a spiritual deafness that causes us to be governed by self. Self (the soul), with its many thoughts and intentions, needs to be separated from the spirit, where God lives. When we truly hear from God His Word will live within us. If by faith we are willing, His Spirit can perfectly expose the self-serving nature of our innermost motivations and thoughts. If a separation doesn’t regularly take place, we will tend to lean on our own understanding and abilities while trying to follow Christ. We will also struggle against the works of the flesh, sometimes with dreadful results. Those who are literally full of themselves cannot be led by God’s Spirit in their spirits. Their efforts will revolve around self and will not further the work of God. Their activities may in fact be harmful.

Many of those who struggle with self (the soul) have a tendency to be wordy, or articulate and intellectual, overbearingly eager to share what they know. They often take delight in discussing irrelevancies. Others have influential and magnetic personalities that draw many Christians to causes that hamper the work of God and result in distracting quarrels and pointless conflicts. Many soul-driven believers are content with a comfortable religious routine that rarely exposes them to God’s instruction and correction. Others are religiously self-righteous. Many instances of disharmony will be caused by the stubborn work of the soul, often through those who, lacking humility, see themselves as being able to teach. Teaching from the soul is precarious. This is why an illiterate person who comes to Christ can have wisdom and understanding found lacking in those who have been to seminary.

So we can say that the human spirit has been made alive in Christ through faith in Him and His sacrificial work. By prayerfully and faithfully remaining in Christ and heeding His teaching, we will know a spiritual awareness that overcomes the impulses of the soul. In this standing the spirit can have a dual awareness: through the Holy Spirit Who dwells within, each spirit can evaluate a person's thoughts and know the mind of Christ. Our souls will be gradually conformed into His image when we allow the Holy Spirit to work through our spirits. In this way we are properly and effectively subjected to His will.

“...the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty” (2nd Corinthians 3:17).

Shabbat shalom, Speks.

Sorry, but all I hear from you is baseless, theological rhetoric. For instance, you said, "The soul is the seat of our personality. It consists of the mind's thoughts, with our emotions and intentions, our preferences and dislikes, and so on. The soul also governs our bodies and can lead us to use them sinfully. Soul-centric believers are quickly controlled by a “carnal” mindset that is the hallmark of the spiritually immature." I say to that, "Who says?! BOOK, CHAPTER, AND VERSE!"

The rest of what you had to say is mostly based upon that premise.