What is a "soul?"

[David1701]

Just now, Alive said:

David--what translation is this VW?

It's an obscure translation that I use sometimes, because it's similar to my main one (NKJV) and I have it in my main Bible programme.  It stands for Voice in the Wilderness.

http://www.a-voice.org/bible.htm

[Alive]

Just now, David1701 said:

It's an obscure translation that I use sometimes, because it's similar to my main one (NKJV) and I have it in my main Bible programme.  It stands for Voice in the Wilderness.

http://www.a-voice.org/bible.htm

Thank you--I have never heard of it before now. Curiosity quenched.

[David1701]

Just now, Alive said:

I see a problem here with this statement. If you see the body as a part of the whole, then the body of dirt itself never does know anything.

The brain does (at least in some people ).

[Alive]

1 minute ago, David1701 said:

The brain does (at least in some people ).

Well--that would lead us down another path that would derail this big time, so lets not.

[David1701]

Just now, Alive said:

Thank you--I have never heard of it before now. Curiosity quenched.

I sometimes use several other obscure translations as well, e.g. English Majority Text Version, Analytical Literal Translation, The Sovereign Creator Has Spoken, etc. (all New Testaments, based on the Greek Majority Text).

[Alive]

1 minute ago, David1701 said:

I sometimes use several other obscure translations as well, e.g. English Majority Text Version, Analytical Literal Translation, The Sovereign Creator Has Spoken, etc. (all New Testaments, based on the Greek Majority Text).

Gotcha.

[Charlie744]

17 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Here's a clear verse teaching that our spirit leaves our body, at death.

Ecc. 12:6,7 (VW)

6 or before the silver cord is loosed, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern;
7 then the dust shall return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God who gave it.

The verses that speak of the dead knowing nothing are referring to our physical bodies, in the grave; not our spirits, which remain fully conscious after physical death.

Luke 16:19-31 (WEB)

19 “Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, living in luxury every day. 
20 A certain beggar, named Lazarus, was laid at his gate, full of sores, 
21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Yes, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 
22 It happened that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried. 
23 In Hades , he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far off, and Lazarus at his bosom. 
24 He cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue! For I am in anguish in this flame.’ 
25 “But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received your good things, and Lazarus, in the same way, bad things. But now here he is comforted and you are in anguish. 
26 Besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 
27 “He said, ‘I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house; 
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they won’t also come into this place of torment.’ 
29 “But Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ 
30 “He said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 
31 “He said to him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.’” 

Incidentally, this passage is not a parable, since people are never named in parables, nor do they include known characters (like Abraham and Moses).

Ok and thanks! I think I got it. Here are some of my thoughts:

1) Personally, the Lazarus parable is just that- a parable teaching us that there is nothing we or anyone can do regarding our salvation once we die... no do overs, no mulligans, etc. I don’t believe this speaks or confirms what the other side looks like (just me),

2) Regarding your sited verse in ECC., I don’t think anyone would disagree the Spirit does return to Him Who have it... but I don’t believe this Spirit given by God IS synonymous with our thoughts, our beliefs, etc. it is His Spirit that gives life to the body to BECOME a living soul. I know this is going to be a very bad analogy but if we unplug the electrical cord from an appliance the appliance essential is dead (no longer functioning or able to perform). The electricity or power does not continue on ... God’s power or His Spirit that allows for life (allows the body to become a living soul) has been removed. 

So, going back to Genesis where we find the “components” of man, we see a body (A), and God breathes His Spirit (B) into (A) and allows or creates a living soul. 

IF that is a valid definition of man in Genesis, then all subsequent verses in Scripture must keep with this definition... and yet there are many verses that CAN and ARE confusing / or subject to different interpretations- 3 parts - Spirit, Soul and Body. 

Thanks again, Charlie 

 

[Alive]

16 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Ok and thanks! I think I got it. Here are some of my thoughts:

1) Personally, the Lazarus parable is just that- a parable teaching us that there is nothing we or anyone can do regarding our salvation once we die... no do overs, no mulligans, etc. I don’t believe this speaks or confirms what the other side looks like (just me),

2) Regarding your sited verse in ECC., I don’t think anyone would disagree the Spirit does return to Him Who have it... but I don’t believe this Spirit given by God IS synonymous with our thoughts, our beliefs, etc. it is His Spirit that gives life to the body to BECOME a living soul. I know this is going to be a very bad analogy but if we unplug the electrical cord from an appliance the appliance essential is dead (no longer functioning or able to perform). The electricity or power does not continue on ... God’s power or His Spirit that allows for life (allows the body to become a living soul) has been removed. 

So, going back to Genesis where we find the “components” of man, we see a body (A), and God breathes His Spirit (B) into (A) and allows or creates a living soul. 

IF that is a valid definition of man in Genesis, then all subsequent verses in Scripture must keep with this definition... and yet there are many verses that CAN and ARE confusing / or subject to different interpretations- 3 parts - Spirit, Soul and Body. 

Thanks again, Charlie 

 

AN interesting post, Charlie.

[Charlie744]

25 minutes ago, Alive said:

AN interesting post, Charlie.

Thank you!

If there is an interest and since this topic IS about “the soul”, I would ask the following:

1) Assuming the definition of a soul is indeed A + B = C, where A is the body, B is the Spirit given by God, and therefore C is the living soul, this definition MUST maintain its integrity throughout the Scriptures. All the fence posts must be in alignment- from Genesis to Revelation. So, would anyone be willing to provide a verse after the first few chapters in Genesis that speaks to this topic and we can get opinions as to whether this definition holds true or not? 

During these 40 or so pages of responses there have been more than a few verses used to support their particular opinion.... we can bring them forward again (hopefully one by one) to discuss the make up of a soul ... 

Thanks, Charlie 

 

[Alive]

14 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you!

If there is an interest and since this topic IS about “the soul”, I would ask the following:

1) Assuming the definition of a soul is indeed A + B = C, where A is the body, B is the Spirit given by God, and therefore C is the living soul, this definition MUST maintain its integrity throughout the Scriptures. All the fence posts must be in alignment- from Genesis to Revelation. So, would anyone be willing to provide a verse after the first few chapters in Genesis that speaks to this topic and we can get opinions as to whether this definition holds true or not? 

During these 40 or so pages of responses there have been more than a few verses used to support their particular opinion.... we can bring them forward again (hopefully one by one) to discuss the make up of a soul ... 

Thanks, Charlie 

 

Charlie I suggest that you start another thread on this and lay it out as it pleases you.

Perhaps cite Gen. and then the next verse as you see it, provide comment and see if it catches on.