What is a "soul?"

[DeighAnn]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Ephesians 1:3-14 (KJV)

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

 

1:5  Having predestined us for divine adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of the will of Him. 

4309 proorizo
To predetermine, foreordain

From 4253 pro - before
3724 - establish boundaries, limits

to pre establish boundaries
 

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

This account of "Jacob's ladder" was a DREAM that Ya`aqoV had when he had a pillow of ROCKS! Nevertheless, God used it to relate the Abrahamic Covenant to Ya`aqoV and his descendants. Furthermore, God promises the Land to him and his children, the children of Israel (which was a name give to Ya`aqoV after wrestling with the messenger all night).

Ya`aqoV put those rocks up into a pile and poured oil on them, making them a monument of the occasion, marking the spot where Beit-El ("Bethel" meaning "House of God") was located.

YES, That is the letter of, exactly.  And my point.  The earthly meaning of the words are right there.  Just as you stated.  Why not add 

 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, Also, thou son of man, appoint thee two ways, that the sword of the king of Babylon may come: both twain shall come forth out of one land: and choose thou a place, choose it at the head of the way to the city.  Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced. For the king of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright, he consulted with images, he looked in the liver. At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem, to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort. And it shall be unto them as a false divination in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths: but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand. And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high. I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until He come whose right it is; and I will give it Him.

 

 In 583BC, the stone was removed from Jerusalem and brought to Ireland , 350 BC the stone was moved to Scotland and 1297AD the stone was moved to England, Westminster Abby.
 

 

BUT, ARE DREAMS JUST DREAMS IN THE WORD OF GOD?  OR DO DREAMS TELL US OF GODS TRUTH?  

or Are you saying that THIS ONE DREAM was just a dream?


 

Edited February 18, 2021 by DeighAnn
Greek Eph 1:5

[Markie51]

Is anyone aware the "God," according to the scriptures< has a "soul" also.  Compare: Psalms 11:5; 24:4; Isaiah 1:14; 42:1; Jeremiah 12:7; 14:19; 32:41; Matthew 12:18; Hebrews 10:38.

This philosophy was first introduced by the Greek philosopher Aristotle and then further promoted by his student Plato.

[Retrobyter]

On 2/18/2021 at 11:56 AM, DeighAnn said:

No, I had never seen it before.  The "looks like mine" was that it looked to me like you were quoting me and since I had never seen it,, it couldn't have been what I had written. 

Shalom, DeighAnn.

Oh, sorry. Let me explain:

No, I will often CUT a person's quote in two or more pieces by adding carriage returns until it splits. (Sometimes, I have to back up a little and try again. I really don't know why it works; I just know it does.) Then, I remove unwanted white space. When the quote is partitioned this way, your name will remain within the quote title for both sections.

When I quote another source, I will often use the quote button (") at the top of the text window, and it will make the same kind of quote box. But, when I do that, your name won't be in that kind of quote. It will remain blank in the title line.

Sorry for the confusion. Always check the top of the quote boxes to see who said what.

[Retrobyter]

On 2/18/2021 at 12:09 PM, DeighAnn said:

Do I understand you correctly,  that in when reading 1 Corinth 15 about us and dying and our bodies, you believe that God makes a hard left turn to speak of the heavens in some connection NOT RELATED to the subject at hand??

Shalom, DeighAnn.

Only in a sense. See, in speaking about our "glorified bodes" after the Resurrection, Paul went into the usage of the word "glory." The Greek word is "doxa." (The word is from which we get our English word "doxology.") The word means "to make something apparent." It's a word for "CONTRAST," usually in "BRIGHTNESS." It is what makes one thing STAND OUT from another, like a "star" against the black night sky. It was also used to describe the difference in brightness and color between two stars! It can also mean the "CONTRAST" between two persons in "OPULENCE!" It's the difference between a wealthy, gold-decked, king and a poor, unadorned, person. Thus, it can also refer to the FAME of an individual. 

So, Paul said,

1 Corinthians 15:39-41 (KJV)

35 But some man will say,

"How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened (brought back to life), except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 

(A short break here. It's important to understand that the outer husk of the seed is NOT the inner germ of the seed. Paul is saying that the "outer husk" has to die before the germ is released to grow! It's the inner germ of the seed that is the new body of the plant that will eventually push through the sod. Life does not spontaneously generate! It always comes from previously living substance, whether through meiosis or mitosis.)

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the GLORY of the celestial is one, and the GLORY of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one GLORY of the sun, and another GLORY of the moon, and another GLORY of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in GLORY.

Today, we know that heat is a form of electromagnetic radiation the same as visible light, except that it is in a longer wavelength which we call "infrared" of "below the wavelength of visible red light." Currently, we give off this form of heat radiation naturally. It's a byproduct of the chemical changes that occur within our bodies. That's why we have a general, healthy temperature of 98.6 degrees. Scientists have made cameras that can "see" this range of light; we call them "thermographic cameras" or just "infrared cameras." That's how the military can see heat sources within buildings.

However, what we can normally see, the VISIBLE light from stars, for instance, is also electromagnetic radiation. When we have been raised back to life - resurrected - we will be able to glow at a different frequency, as well. We will glow, like Moses did when He came down from Mount Sinai and had to put a veil over his face, in the VISIBLE light range!

 

[DeighAnn]

14 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, DeighAnn.

Only in a sense. See, in speaking about our "glorified bodes" after the Resurrection, Paul went into the usage of the word "glory." The Greek word is "doxa." (The word is from which we get our English word "doxology.") The word means "to make something apparent." It's a word for "CONTRAST," usually in "BRIGHTNESS." It is what makes one thing STAND OUT from another, like a "star" against the black night sky. It was also used to describe the difference in brightness and color between two stars! It can also mean the "CONTRAST" between two persons in "OPULENCE!" It's the difference between a wealthy, gold-decked, king and a poor, unadorned, person. Thus, it can also refer to the FAME of an individual. 

So, Paul said,

1 Corinthians 15:39-41 (KJV)

35 But some man will say,

"How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened (brought back to life), except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 

(A short break here. It's important to understand that the outer husk of the seed is NOT the inner germ of the seed. Paul is saying that the "outer husk" has to die before the germ is released to grow! It's the inner germ of the seed that is the new body of the plant that will eventually push through the sod. Life does not spontaneously generate! It always comes from previously living substance, whether through meiosis or mitosis.)

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the GLORY of the celestial is one, and the GLORY of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one GLORY of the sun, and another GLORY of the moon, and another GLORY of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in GLORY.

Today, we know that heat is a form of electromagnetic radiation the same as visible light, except that it is in a longer wavelength which we call "infrared" of "below the wavelength of visible red light." Currently, we give off this form of heat radiation naturally. It's a byproduct of the chemical changes that occur within our bodies. That's why we have a general, healthy temperature of 98.6 degrees. Scientists have made cameras that can "see" this range of light; we call them "thermographic cameras" or just "infrared cameras." That's how the military can see heat sources within buildings.

However, what we can normally see, the VISIBLE light from stars, for instance, is also electromagnetic radiation. When we have been raised back to life - resurrected - we will be able to glow at a different frequency, as well. We will glow, like Moses did when He came down from Mount Sinai and had to put a veil over his face, in the VISIBLE light range!

 

We must see John 13 completely differently as you are waiting until Christs return, and I am going immediately (because I believe that when my flesh body dies, my spiritual body instantly takes over.  It has been with me, a part of me, all along, my flesh just having been knit over it for this time in the flesh, this flesh dying releasing it once again to return to God).  I don't believe it needs ANY time to GROW.  It is more 'grown' than this flesh ever was or will be, IMHO.  

Dying to know what you believe Christ was saying here as He was about to go to God, and this is not speaking of His Return to rule on earth, right?
 

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; (Peter still had lots of work to do)  but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
(since Christ was going to heaven, if Peter stayed here until the resurrection, why would Christ prepare a place for him in heaven?)

John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
When we die, aka our flesh dies

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So I am going to the Father, not waiting until the Returning to earth.  

You know, I have tried to 'picture' this 'all resurrect' at the same time when Christ returns but it just doesn't compute, on any level for me.  One, I can't see God giving us two bodies and then not using either for a while.  I can't see a 'mansion' being needed for 'bodyless spirits',  and if it were bodyless spirits why reference a place we associate with 'a body'. 

But what I don't understand is why the 'tenses' of the verbs are never mentioned, when those tenses are so important here.  

of those who SLEPT
and that was 2000 yrs ago or so.  Are they past, present, or future tense?  If you believe this is future, how would one write the sentences if in fact ,Christ, who is the resurrection and the life, raised the dead when He was raised?  I have written out the ways in which it would be written for both ways, raising when we die and all rising at a future date.  I would sure like to see how you would write them, to see where and how they differ from mine.  

[Frits]

On 2/18/2021 at 11:45 AM, Retrobyter said:

In any case, this messenger tells John to worship God ONLY!

@Retrobyter

You don't worship the Lord Jesus as God?
To you, the Lord Jesus is a very distinguished messenger, but not God Himself?

 

[Frits]

On 2/18/2021 at 5:04 AM, Retrobyter said:

No, the celestial body is in the sky! It's a sun; it's a moon; it's a star! The Greek word merely TRANSLATED "celestial" is "epouranioo" and it means "of or belonging to ABOVE THE SKY!"

(I suppose a meteorite goes into the dirt, though.)

@Retrobyter

I am quite sure that "the resurrection" of the dead has already begun, and I am going to show you that.
The resurrection of the dead involves two aspects, of which you have seen only one so far!
You have read that the tomb in which the Lord Jesus was laid was found empty by the women. Hallelujah!

This is the truth, this has become the tangible reality.  (Jh.20:27)
You, like Thomas, are convinced on this basis that the resurrected Lord Jesus has overcome death.
When He left His body at the 9th hour, then He was death?
While that was the very moment that He was made alive by the Spirit! (1Pt.3:18)

Luk 23:46 NASB
“Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I ENTRUST MY SPIRIT.”

While Jesus' corpse was in the tomb, He in the Holy Ghost His went and preached to the spirits in prison. (1Pt.3:19)

According to you, a person is dead when he loses the material body.  You believe what you can see, feel and hear.  If that's lost to us, you think the person is dead!  And when that person comes back at the resurrection, you say he is alive again.
But with your unbiblical claims and your unnecessary Greek word explanations, you indicate that you have no understanding of the invisible reality of the Kingdom of God and you resist the Gospel of the Lord Jesus!

For the Lord Jesus Himself taught us something completely different, namely:

Jh.5:24 KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;  but is passed from death unto life.

Do you see it?
We were all already in death because of our crimes and our sins!

Ep.2:1 KJV And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Had we died in that condition, we would have remained in death, and then 'lifted up' our eyes in Hades.  Look at the "rich" man in Lk.16:23.

Yet through the words of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus we rose from the dead and our inner spiritual man came to life!  That's where our resurrection from the dead began!  Our 'spiritual body' woke up and arose, thanks to God's Word Jesus Christ.  Hallelujah!

I too was born again in this way or better: from 'above', born of God.

Should I continue to live in my earthly body until the Lord Jesus returns — about which Paul writes and encloses himself as if it were the present tense for him — then my earthly body will be absorbed by my heavenly body!
With that I can from now on also follow the Lord Jesus in the heavens. That seems delicious to me!
With that my total resurrection has also been completed, and my earthly body was also 'devoured' in victory!

2Co.5:4 KJV For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Should I die before and lose my earthly body, then I will continue to live in my heavenly body that I already have and will continue to keep.
With that heavenly body I have taken up residence with my Lord Jesus, just like Paul.  (2Cor.5:1)

2Co.5:2 KJV For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

And with that heavenly body I appear again on earth with the Lord Jesus and all the other saints who have fallen asleep.
My resurection from the dead has then become visible even to the unbelievers, to those who never wanted to see the heavenly reality!

 

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Frits said:

@Retrobyter

You don't worship the Lord Jesus as God?
To you, the Lord Jesus is a very distinguished messenger, but not God Himself?

 

Shalom, Frits.

He is NOT NOW God; He USED TO BE God "the Word" (John 1:1-5); now, He is the SON of God, a MAN who is "on the same page" as God His Father! That's an IMPORTANT DISTINCTION! The Word "became FLESH" (John 1:14), not just "took on flesh" as some say! Technically, He is no longer omnipresent. He is now LOCALIZED to a body! I still worship (bend the knee to) the Lord Yeshua`, the MESSIAH of God (haMashiyach Elohiym) who will be my King. Occasionally, He was called "the Son of God," but He almost always referred to Himself as the "Son of man," a "true human being."

He acknowledged that He was/is "THE SON OF GOD." Man-made THEOLOGY says He is "GOD THE SON!" I believe in Sola Scriptura! As such, I adhere EXACTLY to what the Scriptures say! I'm human; so, I can still make mistakes. However, "let God be true and EVERY man a liar!" GOD SAID, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased!"

And, in anticipation of your possible objection, when Yeshua` said, "Before Abraham was, I am," He WAS the "I AM" while He was still the Word "before Abraham was!" (Digest that for a moment.) He is NOT just an aggelos (a messenger) of God. He IS an Apostelos (an Apostle), a "SENT ONE" or "ONE WHO WAS SENT" on a mission. (Hebrews 3:1) He is the FULFILLMENT and SHALL be the FULFILLMENT of the Davidic Covenant!

2 Samuel 7:1-17 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies; 2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet,

"See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains!"

3 And Nathan said to the king,

"Go, do all that is in thine heart; for the LORD is with thee."

4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying, 

5 "Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, 'Why build ye not me an house of cedar?'

8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house. 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 
14 I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."

17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

Because of verse 12, we know that this is NOT about Shlomoh or "Solomon!" Solomon became king and took over the kingdom BEFORE David "slept with his fathers!" (1 Kings 1:32-48) This is about David's SEED "which shall proceed out of his bowels," the MESSIAH!

This is what the messenger Gavri'el (the "angel Gabriel") told Miryam ("Mary"):

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest (God): and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

To call Yeshua` ("Jesus") the "Son of God" is to recognize that He is the ONE who fulfills the Davidic Covenant - God's PROMISE to David that His SEED would reign forever over the house of Ya`aqoV ("Jacob")!

[Frits]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

He is NOT NOW God

(Retrobyter, talking about the Lord Jesus:)
 
    "He is NOT NOW God"

These are your words Retrobyter.  I'm going to put it next to the Bible now, so that everyone can draw their own conclusion:
 

1. Heb.1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

2. 1Ti.3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

3. Rm.9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise! Amen.

4. Act 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

5.1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

 

Well now Retrobyter who wrote the truth, the apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, or you?

[Your closest friendnt]

9 hours ago, Frits said:

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

He is NOT NOW God

(Retrobyter, talking about the Lord Jesus:)
 
    "He is NOT NOW God

Revelation 21:6,7

⁶ And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

⁷ He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 

**this statement is somehow not very simple to understand. 

We cannot ignore that verse 7 is referring to "he that overcometh", if we may say to "an overcomer". 

(He did not say to a believer but he sets the mood for a distinction between a believer and a believer who has overcome, is this referring to a believer who had gone through some kind of testing and he came out of this testing as an overcommer. 

According to the message in verse seven for a believer who knows Jesus Christ not only as a Savior but also as Lord in this life to get to know Jesus Christ as his God and as his Father and to get the feeling that he/she even including children that are cared from Jesus Christ the same way a Father cares for his children is achived when the believer is going through some testing in this life and he learns to lean to Jesus Christ and experience Jesus Christ caring for him/her as his God getting involved in e very aspect of his life and supplying everything he needs. 

He feels his presence they way we fill the presence of a Father. 

Jesus Christ is not anymore the Lord of Lord sitting on his Throne in Heaven the Ruler of all, having all power given to him from the Heavenly Father. 

The Heavenly Father giving to him all authority and all his Theotis to the man Jesus Christ, who now he has all the powers the Heavenly Father has.

He does not need anything anymore from the Heavenly Father as to do what the Heavenly Father would do.

**the overcommer experience Jesus as the one who supplied to him everything that he needs during his trials, he did not need to run to the Heavenly Father asking for something Jesus Christ cannot give him, because he does not have it.

The Heavenly Father will say "Jesus has everything  you need, " he is your Savior and your Lord you are his Children and he is your Everlasting Father. 

He is your Lifegiver, you are his price and his Inheritance.  I made him a God over all other Gods. The man Jesus Christ has all the Powers of the Heavenly Father in him self. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Your closest friendnt