What is a "soul?"

[Retrobyter]

 

On 3/4/2021 at 1:39 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

Hello Whyme, repeated times Jesus Christ said that the Heavenly Father is my Father and that he is his Son.

Like the people of that time as it is with the people of all times including our selves listening to Jesus Christ calling God his Father they were wondering about many things. 

One of them would be whether or not the God his Father had also a human body like him.

One time Jesus Christ took the time to explain to them that God is a Spirit and does not have a Man's body, and the time is coming that we will worship him with our Spirit. 

Jesus Christ was also a Spirit living in his physical body, because when he died on the Cross he went in the unseen world, Jesus said he will descend to the heart of the earth. 

He could not go there while in his earthly body, could he? 

That's why he had to die first. To found himself out of his body. 

And then when he was raised from the dead, some how he knew where his body was and he did not go to the hill of Golgotha looking to find his body on the Cross that would have been strange.

Did the Angel had to stroll away the stone from the entrance to go in the Tomb.

No need for that because he could go in the Spirit man into the heart of the Earth and come back, it was no a problem, he did not have to dig his way in and out into the place of the dead under the care of the God of the Dead.

Did the Angel had to move away the stone from the Tomb for Jesus Christ to come out from the Tomb , yes he did unless jesus roll it away himself.

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

Actually, I just wanted to point out that Yeshua` the Messiah took the time to point that out to the SAMARITAN WOMAN AT THE WELL!

Also, when you said, "Jesus Christ was also a Spirit living in his physical body," you've made some assumptions that are NOT found in the Scriptures! Yeshua`, the Messiah of God, WAS His physical body because "the Word was made flesh" and was given the name "Yeshua`" meaning "He shall save." He WAS (and still IS) His body! He doesn't "HAVE" a body!

If at no other time one is precise about the Scriptures, one should be VERY CAREFUL to be precise when quoting Yeshua` the Messiah! What Yeshua` ACTUALLY said was,

Matthew 12:38-42 (KJV)

38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying,

"Master, we would see a sign from thee."

39 But he answered and said unto them,

"An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth (Greek: en tee kardia tees gees = "in the core of-the ground"). 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold (look!), a greater than Jonas is here! 42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold (look!), a greater than Solomon is here!"

Yeshua`s point here is that both the swallowing of Yonah ("Jonas") did and the burial of Yeshua` will last 3 days + 3 nights. He's not saying that He will go into the center of the planet! He's saying that He will be DEAD for 3 days and 3 nights in "the core of the ground," i.e., in the grave!

He didn't go "in[to] the unseen world," or "descend to the heart of the earth!" He didn't go "into the place of the dead under the care of the God of the Dead!" This is all make-believe! It's fictitious, fabricated, and false!

It comes from a poor understanding of some obscure passages of Scripture:

FIRST,

1 Peter 3:14-22 (KJV)

14 But and if ye SUFFER for righteousness' sake,
happy are ye:
and be not afraid of their terror,
neither be troubled; 
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts:
and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 
16 Having a good conscience;
that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers,
they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so,
that ye SUFFER for well doing, than for evil doing. 
18 For Christ also hath once SUFFERED for sins,
the just for the unjust,
that he might bring us to God,
being PUT TO DEATH in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit: (brought back to life by the Spirit of God)
19 By which also he went and preached unto THE SPIRITS IN PRISON; 
20 Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 
21 The like figure whereunto 
even baptism doth also now save us
(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 
22 Who is gone into heaven (into the sky),
and is on the right hand of God;
angels (messengers) and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

SECOND,

Ephesians 4:1-16 (KJV)

1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ (the Messiah).
8 Wherefore he saith,

"When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men."

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

However, this makes little sense and sounds like a hodgepodge of information IF one doesn't look up the verse that is quoted here:

Psalm 68:1-35 (KJV)

1 {To the chief Musician, A Psalm or Song of David.}

Let God (Hebrew: Elohiym) arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God (Hebrew: Elohiym).
3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God (Hebrew: Elohiym): yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.
4 Sing unto God (Hebrew: Elohiym), sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH (Hebrew: YH,Yaah), and rejoice before him.
5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God (Hebrew: Elohiym) in his holy habitation.
6 God (Hebrew: Elohiym) setteth the solitary in families: he bringeth out those which are bound with chains: but the rebellious dwell in a dry land.
7 O God (Hebrew: Elohiym), when thou wentest forth before thy people, when thou didst march through the wilderness; Selah:

8 The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: even Sinai itself was moved at the presence of God (Hebrew: Elohiym), the God of Israel (Hebrew: Eloheey Yisra'el).
9 Thou, O God (Hebrew: Elohiym), didst send a plentiful rain, whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary.
10 Thy congregation hath dwelt therein: thou, O God (Hebrew: Elohiym), hast prepared of thy goodness for the poor.
11 The Lord (Hebrew: Adonaay) gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.
12 Kings of armies did flee apace: and she that tarried at home divided the spoil.
13 Though ye have lien among the pots, yet shall ye be as the wings of a dove covered with silver, and her feathers with yellow gold.
14 When the Almighty scattered kings in it, it was white as snow in Salmon.
15 The hill of God is as the hill of Bashan; an high hill as the hill of Bashan.
16 Why leap ye, ye high hills? this is the hill which God (Hebrew: Elohiym) desireth to dwell in; yea, the LORD (Hebrew: YHWH) will dwell in it for ever.
17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.
18 THOU HAST ASCENDED ON HIGH, THOU HAST LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE: THOU HAST RECEIVED GIFTS FOR MEN; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
19 Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits, even the God of our salvation (deliverance; rescue). Selah.

20 He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto GOD the Lord belong the issues from death.
21 But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.
22 The Lord said,

"I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea": 

23 That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same. 
24 They have seen thy goings, O God; even the goings of my God, my King, in the sanctuary.
25 The singers went before, the players on instruments followed after; among them were the damsels playing with timbrels.
26 Bless ye God in the congregations, even the Lord, from the fountain of Israel.
27 There is little Benjamin with their ruler, the princes of Judah and their council, the princes of Zebulun, and the princes of Naphtali.
28 Thy God hath commanded thy strength: strengthen, O God, that which thou hast wrought for us.
29 Because of thy temple at Jerusalem shall kings bring presents unto thee.
30 Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, till every one submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people that delight in war.
31 Princes shall come out of Egypt; Ethiopia shall soon stretch out her hands unto God.
32 Sing unto God, ye kingdoms of the earth; O sing praises unto the Lord; Selah:

33 To him that rideth upon the heavens of heavens, which were of old; lo, he doth send out his voice, and that a mighty voice.
34 Ascribe ye strength unto God: his excellency is over Israel, and his strength is in the clouds.
35 O God, thou art terrible (terrifying) out of thy holy places: the God of Israel is he that giveth strength and power unto his people. Blessed be God.

Thus, the captivity that was led captive were the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL when they were led out of Egypt to Mount Sinai! Now, look at the passage in Ephesians 4:9: The phrase translated as "the lower parts of the earth" is the Greek phrase "ta katootera meree tees gees."

Thayer's Greek Lexicon (as recorded in BibleHub) has this to say on the phrase:

κατώτερος, κατώτερα, κατώτερον (comparitive of κάτω, see ἀνώτερος) (Hippocrates, Theophrastus, Athen., others), lower: (ὁΧριστός) κατέβη εἰς τά κατώτερα μέρη τῆς γῆς, Ephesians 4:9, which many understand of Christ's descent into Hades (τόν τόπον τόν κάτωκαλούμενον, Plato, Phaedo, p. 112 c.), taking τῆς γῆς as a partitive genitive (see ᾅδης, 2). But the mention of tiffs fact is at variance with the connection. Paul is endeavoring to show that the passage he has just before quoted, Psalm 67:19 (), must be understood of Christ, not of God, because 'an ascent into heaven' necessarily presupposes a descent to earth (which was made by Christ in the incarnation), whereas God does not leave his abode in heaven. Accordingly, τά κατώτερα τῆς γῆςdenotes, the lower parts of the universe, which the earth constitutes — τῆς γῆς being a genitive of APPOSITION; cf. Winer's Grammar, § 59, 8 a.; Grimm, Institutio theol. dogmat. edition 2, p. 355ff (emphasis mine).

An appositive is a NAME for something else. In English grammar, appositives are usually set off from the rest of the sentence by a comma before and after the appositive, as in the following sentence: "So, Dave, we leave in the morning." The sentence tells us that the name "Dave" is the person addressed in this sentence. It can also be used to RENAME something or someone else: "The winner, Dave, stood up to receive the prize." Here, the name "Dave" IS the "winner!" This is what Thayer's is saying! "The earth" (tees gees) RENAMES the "lower parts"; it's just an unfortunate choice of words that supplied the word "of" (which is a common practice for the genitive case) between them. "The earth," as the "lower parts," is contrasted with the "higher parts," being "heaven." Thus, it probably should have been rendered "the lower parts, the earth."

Now, just to set the matter straight, I take issue with Thayer's Greek Lexicon in that its phrasing is not based on God's OMNIPRESENCE, suggesting that "God does not leave his abode in heaven"; however, God DOES NOT NEED to leave anywhere BECAUSE HE IS ALWAYS EVERYWHERE! However, God the WORD DID descend to the earth - the lower parts - AS He was made flesh.

[Retrobyter]

On 3/4/2021 at 12:11 AM, Whyme said:

God is a spirit and we will have a spiritual body too. 

Shalom, Whyme.

Yes, but we will have PAUL'S kind of "spiritual body" which doesn't exist until the NATURAL BODY (Greek: sooma psuchikon = "air-breathing body") is resurrected first and then transformed.

[Retrobyter]

 

On 3/4/2021 at 7:29 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

I always remember that and always make everyone important.

Looking at the whole picture at that time Paul could communicate to the Greeks without the use of a translator and that also complimented them and soften their mood to listen to what he had to say.

Coming to what Paul had to say it was something that made the Greeks marvel. 

That it would effect not only them but also the ancestors of those who heard the Gospel. 

Paul told them that if the believe in Jesus Christ they would not be separated from their ancestors. 

And why did Paul say that, because the Gospel it was preached first to their ancestors by Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ sent his disciples to the rest of the world. 

Jesus Christ mission was to preach the Gospel to everyone who had died before him and after his raising from the dead Jesus Christ commition his disciples to preach the Gospel to the living.

Him to the dead and the disciples to the living. 

And we are back to Paul and his message to the  Greeks and Romans. 

Shalom, "Your closest friendnt."

I don't believe you have the correct understanding of the "gospel of Jesus Christ," or rather, the "good news of Yeshua` the Messiah."

Please consider two (actually, four) passages of Scripture that should put you on the right track:

Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching (heralding) the gospel of (the good news about) the kingdom of God, 15 And saying,

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within your grasp): repent ye, and believe the gospel (the good news)."

Did He explain what this "good news" was? NO! To whom was He talking? He was talking to the "children of Israel," specifically, the JEWS (children of Yhudah or "Judah")! They ALREADY KNEW what this "good news" was! They needed no explanation.

Now, consider this: How early was this in Yeshua`s "earthly ministry?" Who understood that Yeshua` would have to die, be buried, and be resurrected? No one, right? And yet, the children of Israel - the children of Yhudah, the "Jews" - ALREADY KNEW the "gospel!" So, this begs the question: WHAT "gospel?"

Isaiah 52:7 (KJV)

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation (rescue; deliverance); that saith unto Zion, "Thy God reigneth!"

And, this verse was quoted by Paul in his letter to the Romans in 10:15:

Romans 10:13-15 (KJV)

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (delivered; rescued). 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher (herald)? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

He also, in the process, quoted another passage of Scripture: Joel 2:32. Here it is in context:

Joel 2:28-32; 3:1-2 (KJV) (Remember: chapter and verse divisions are arbitrary.)

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered (saved; rescued): for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. 1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Wouldn't you know it? The children of Israel read these passages of Scripture AT LEAST ONCE EVERY SINGLE YEAR! They KNOW these passages of Scripture! What Yeshua` was telling them to do was to look at them more carefully and BELIEVE what they were reading! It was more than just a "head knowledge"; this Kingdom over which God would reign at that time in history was WITHIN THEIR GRASP! All they would have had to do was to reach out and TAKE IT!

And, by the way, this is the SAME "GOSPEL" to which Yeshua` alluded in the Olivet Discourse:

Matthew 24:9-14 (KJV)

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted (Greek: eis thlipsin = "into tribulation"), and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I submit to you that we have hardly BEGUN to preach this "gospel of the kingdom!" Just something to consider.

[Your closest friendnt]

4 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

 

Shalom, "Your closest friendnt."

I don't believe you have the correct understanding of the "gospel of Jesus Christ," or rather, the "good news of Yeshua` the Messiah."

Please consider two (actually, four) passages of Scripture that should put you on the right track:

Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching (heralding) the gospel of (the good news about) the kingdom of God, 15 And saying,

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within your grasp): repent ye, and believe the gospel (the good news)."

Did He explain what this "good news" was? NO! To whom was He talking? He was talking to the "children of Israel," specifically, the JEWS (children of Yhudah or "Judah")! They ALREADY KNEW what this "good news" was! They needed no explanation.

Now, consider this: How early was this in Yeshua`s "earthly ministry?" Who understood that Yeshua` would have to die, be buried, and be resurrected? No one, right? And yet, the children of Israel - the children of Yhudah, the "Jews" - ALREADY KNEW the "gospel!" So, this begs the question: WHAT "gospel?"

Isaiah 52:7 (KJV)

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation (rescue; deliverance); that saith unto Zion, "Thy God reigneth!"

And, this verse was quoted by Paul in his letter to the Romans in 10:15:

Romans 10:13-15 (KJV)

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (delivered; rescued). 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher (herald)? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

He also, in the process, quoted another passage of Scripture: Joel 2:32. Here it is in context:

Joel 2:28-32; 3:1-2 (KJV) (Remember: chapter and verse divisions are arbitrary.)

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered (saved; rescued): for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. 1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Wouldn't you know it? The children of Israel read these passages of Scripture AT LEAST ONCE EVERY SINGLE YEAR! They KNOW these passages of Scripture! What Yeshua` was telling them to do was to look at them more carefully and BELIEVE what they were reading! It was more than just a "head knowledge"; this Kingdom over which God would reign at that time in history was WITHIN THEIR GRASP! All they would have had to do was to reach out and TAKE IT!

And, by the way, this is the SAME "GOSPEL" to which Yeshua` alluded in the Olivet Discourse:

Matthew 24:9-14 (KJV)

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted (Greek: eis thlipsin = "into tribulation"), and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I submit to you that we have hardly BEGUN to preach this "gospel of the kingdom!" Just something to consider.

This time you are less rude, but you still you are not polite, you do not respond with:

"I do not agree with this statement and hear are my reasons and my argument that support my disagreement and can be discussed. 

You have remained silent to issues I have raised, but I am not a fool to think that you are in agreement with,  because you are not, just say not right now, not at this time. 

Just to say "you are wrong " what is this?  Who are out of line, discussion is to let your point being made.

A prosecutor tells the jury that we will prove them this and that, he tells that he has not provide the proof but he has the onus to do it.

And the Jury decides on the proof and Judges the prosecutor on his opening statements.  And we also have a Judge. 

Just present your case.

You are giving a lot of scriptures, I never question those scriptures, why you post them in a manner that I have opposed them, why? 

I have a bible but you have kind of your own bible, inserting in () something that is not in scriptures, adding something intending to build on, before put it in on the examination table.

Please respond if you wish and your response in welcome without Judging, giving the reasons and the statement you disagree with for discussion. 

God bless 

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

 

Shalom, "Your closest friendnt."

I don't believe you have the correct understanding of the "gospel of Jesus Christ," or rather, the "good news of Yeshua` the Messiah."

You do not know what I understand or what I believe and for that reason you are not in a position to judge fairly or without prejudice. 

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Please consider two (actually, four) passages of Scripture that should put you on the right track: 

This is not a fair statement you have not post anything to prove that I am not in the right track. 

We discussing about Jesus Christ and not doctrines of of religious organizations put in place to their members. 

 

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching (heralding) the gospel of (the good news about) the kingdom of God, 15 And saying,

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within your grasp): repent ye, and believe the gospel (the good news)."

This is before Jesus Christ died on the Cross. They repent and believe on what they were asked to believe and they were lost.

Not all of them, but those who refused to believe that the one whom they asked Pilate to crucified on the  Cross what the Christ of God the Messiah who died for the forgiveness of their sins.

And if at the time whe the last trumpet sounded announcing their departure from their body and only if that moment were found still in their refusal to believe.  

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Did He explain what this "good news" was? NO! To whom was He talking? He was talking to the "children of Israel," specifically, the JEWS (children of Yhudah or "Judah")! They ALREADY KNEW what this "good news" was! They needed no explanation.

They knew what they were taught. They grew up wanting an earthly Kingdom, they seek the Messiah for earthly matters.  

And they did not want the Christ to die. And they did not mind that they will die.... and they Judge Jesus Christ with that measure, they said he died he was not the Christ of God. 

The same goes for all his disciples whom Jesus had a hard time to convince after he was raised from the dead and  he rebuke them for that.

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Now, consider this: How early was this in Yeshua`s "earthly ministry?" Who understood that Yeshua` would have to die, be buried, and be resurrected? No one, right? And yet, the children of Israel - the children of Yhudah, the "Jews" - ALREADY KNEW the "gospel!"

First before we go to the next.

Jesus had to die on the Cross and had to receive the lashes and be falsely accused as being course by God. 

 

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

 

So, this begs the question: WHAT "gospel?"

Isaiah 52:7 (KJV)

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation (rescue; deliverance); that saith unto Zion, "Thy God reigneth!"

And, this verse was quoted by Paul in his letter to the Romans in 10:15:

Romans 10:13-15 (KJV)

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (delivered; rescued). 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher (herald)? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

He also, in the process, quoted another passage of Scripture: Joel 2:32. Here it is in context:

Joel 2:28-32; 3:1-2 (KJV) (Remember: chapter and verse divisions are arbitrary.)

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered (saved; rescued): for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. 1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Wouldn't you know it? The children of Israel read these passages of Scripture AT LEAST ONCE EVERY SINGLE YEAR! They KNOW these passages of Scripture! What Yeshua` was telling them to do was to look at them more carefully and BELIEVE what they were reading! It was more than just a "head knowledge"; this Kingdom over which God would reign at that time in history was WITHIN THEIR GRASP! All they would have had to do was to reach out and TAKE IT!

And, by the way, this is the SAME "GOSPEL" to which Yeshua` alluded in the Olivet Discourse:

Matthew 24:9-14 (KJV)

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted (Greek: eis thlipsin = "into tribulation"), and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I submit to you that we have hardly BEGUN to preach this "gospel of the kingdom!" Just something to consider.

 

[Retrobyter]

On 3/7/2021 at 12:56 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

This time you are less rude, but you still you are not polite, you do not respond with:

"I do not agree with this statement and hear are my reasons and my argument that support my disagreement and can be discussed. 

You have remained silent to issues I have raised, but I am not a fool to think that you are in agreement with,  because you are not, just say not right now, not at this time. 

Just to say "you are wrong " what is this?  Who are out of line, discussion is to let your point being made.

A prosecutor tells the jury that we will prove them this and that, he tells that he has not provide the proof but he has the onus to do it.

And the Jury decides on the proof and Judges the prosecutor on his opening statements.  And we also have a Judge. 

Just present your case.

You are giving a lot of scriptures, I never question those scriptures, why you post them in a manner that I have opposed them, why? 

I have a bible but you have kind of your own bible, inserting in () something that is not in scriptures, adding something intending to build on, before put it in on the examination table.

Please respond if you wish and your response in welcome without Judging, giving the reasons and the statement you disagree with for discussion. 

God bless 

SHALOM, "Your closest friendnt."

I am not a prosecutor, a defense lawyer, or a lawyer of any kind, but YOU come into my topic, HIJACK my topic with your "mutual admiration club," and then presume to lecture me on MY protocol?! You've got some nerve!

Go start your own topic.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Retrobyter

[Retrobyter]

Shalom (which means "Peace," of course) to all.

This topic is called "What is a 'SOUL?'" However, it seems to have degenerated into anything BUT! My point is this: Who says that a "soul" has to be perpetual? The Scriptures don't teach that. Instead, they teach quite the opposite. They teach that we, being sinful human beings, DIE!

HOWEVER, there SHALL be a general resurrection of the JUST or the JUSTIFIED persons at the coming of our Lord Yeshua` the Messiah (whom many call "Jesus the Christ," without an understanding of what "Christ" means).

It's OTHER religions and philosophies that taught that we are immaterial beings that live on in one form or another. Even weird teachings that, we'd NEVER accept, like reincarnation, which says that our immortal, immaterial "soul" moves on to the next available body we deserve!

Christianity, like Judaism, ADOPTED such a view of an "immortal, immaterial soul," but from the start it was NEVER supposed to be that way! Instead, our "soul," our "air-breathing creature," dies and ceases to exist ... FOR A WHILE until the Resurrection of our bodies that once breathed air. They are transformed at that time into SUPER-bodies, that is, bodies that won't die, will never decay, and are stronger than before, able to glow in the visible light spectrum, but they are still PHYSICAL BODIES!

It was the Greek philosopher PLATO who taught that "the material is evil and the immaterial is good!" God NEVER said that! To the contrary, He CREATED the physical earth and skies! Sure, sinful mankind marred that, but "beyond repair?" I don't think so! GOD DOESN'T LOSE TO SIN OR DEATH, EVER! In fact, we are told that God REMAKES the physical earth and skies from this present earth and its skies!

In opposition to the chorus, "This world is not my home, I'm just a-passin' through," while it won't be THIS world, per se, we are DESIGNED AND BUILT for a world LIKE this, and it WON'T be called "Heaven!" "Heaven" simply means "the sky." It's a NEW EARTH and NEW SKIES for which we should be looking, where the NEW JERUSALEM will land (Rev. 21:1-2 and 2 Pet. 3:13)!

And, just to "flesh out" the timeline "skeleton," this won't occur until AFTER the Millennium, Yeshua` returning at the BEGINNING of the Millennium. Thus, it is at least a THOUSAND YEARS from now!

Our anticipation should be in the Return of the Messiah Yeshua` and in the Resurrection that will happen at that time. We don't go off to "heaven" and rest; we go into the Millennium and WORK! We will rule and reign with Him! It won't be hard work, to be sure, but it may be challenging! And, it will be a HAPPY TIME for us with accomplishments, service to God, and victorious achievements, particularly by our King Yeshua` who Himself acknowledges GOD THE FATHER as His King!

So, if you have an alternative view on "SOUL," we can discuss it. However, let's leave all the RESULTS of our belief out of it ... for this topic, anyway. Thanks.

[DeighAnn]

And on the opposite end

HE SAYS, I am the life.  Not the sleep, not the death.  

Does the flesh dying cause the soul to die?  NO, only God can kill both.  And that will happen at the Judgment so no one 'dead dead' till then.   


Its like I got a puppy AND I soooo loved that puppy but after 3 weeks it still didn't learn or know to stay in the yard

and got run over.  

ONE WAY -  I stick him in the freezer and  take him out in 10 years,

ANOTHER WAY IS -  I IMMEDIATELY give him a NEW body and I spend the next 10 years teaching him TO STAY in the yard,  

At the end of the 10 years I give the frozen puppy a new body, and take the immediate new body puppy, put them in the yard and open the gate

WHICH PUPPY WOULD STAND MORE OF A CHANCE OF NOT GOING OUT THE GATE?  

IF my will is that all stay in the gate, IN WHICH WAY IS MY WILL MORE LIKELY TO BE ACCOMPLISHED?  

WHAT does the WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE of GOD tell us is more likely to be HIS TRUTH? 

[Retrobyter]

On 3/12/2021 at 8:45 PM, DeighAnn said:

And on the opposite end

HE SAYS, I am the life.  Not the sleep, not the death.  

Does the flesh dying cause the soul to die?  NO, only God can kill both.  And that will happen at the Judgment so no one 'dead dead' till then. 

But, you're using a different definition of "soul" than the one we are given in Genesis 2:7!

Bear with me as I re-introduce you to the words:

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

B-reeshiyt 2:7 (Hebrew transliterated)

7 Vayiytser YHWH Elohiym et-haa'Aadaam aafaar min-haa'adaamaah vayiypah b'apaayow nishmat chayiym vayhiy haa'Aadaam l-nefesh chayyaah.

7 Vayiytser = 7 And-formed
YHWH = YHWH; the LORD
Elohiym = God
et- = (the next word is the direct object)
haa'Aadaam = the-Red-[man]
aafaar = of-dust
min- = from
haa'adaamaah = the-red-[ground]
vayiypah = and-puffed
b'apaayow = in-his-nostrils
nishmat = a-puff
chayiym = of-living-things
vayhiy = and-became
haa'Aadaam = the-Red-[man]
l- = to; into
nefesh = an-air-breathing-creature
chayyaah. = living.

It is "nefesh" that was translated into the English word "soul" in the KJV. The point is this: How can a "soul" be different than a living body IF the "soul" is said to be an "air-breathing-creature?" Here are Strong's entries of the word "nefesh" and its root word "naafash":

5315 nefesh (neh'-fesh). From naafash; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. Animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)
-- any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

5314 naafash (naw-fash'). A primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air)
-- (be) refresh selves (-ed).

The root verb is "to breathe"; the resulting noun is "an air-breathing creature." (I add the word "air" to the definition because one must ask, "What else would one breathe?"

God FORMED the body out of dust from the ground; then God JUMP-STARTED the living air-breather by puffing a puff of air into his nostrils! That's what a "SOUL" is!

To think that the "soul" is different than the "body" is wrong. The "soul" is not the "real you" in that sense, and one doesn't change "bodies" like one changes "shirts!"

On 3/12/2021 at 8:45 PM, DeighAnn said:

Its like I got a puppy AND I soooo loved that puppy but after 3 weeks it still didn't learn or know to stay in the yard

and got run over.  

ONE WAY -  I stick him in the freezer and  take him out in 10 years,

ANOTHER WAY IS -  I IMMEDIATELY give him a NEW body and I spend the next 10 years teaching him TO STAY in the yard,  

At the end of the 10 years I give the frozen puppy a new body, and take the immediate new body puppy, put them in the yard and open the gate

WHICH PUPPY WOULD STAND MORE OF A CHANCE OF NOT GOING OUT THE GATE? 

That's a rather bad analogy! How in the world is any human being going to give the puppy a new body PERIOD?!

On 3/12/2021 at 8:45 PM, DeighAnn said:

 IF my will is that all stay in the gate, IN WHICH WAY IS MY WILL MORE LIKELY TO BE ACCOMPLISHED?  

WHAT does the WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE of GOD tell us is more likely to be HIS TRUTH? 

What God has written in His Word is TRUTH! And, Yeshua` said,

John 6:44 (KJV)

44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

[Waggles]

32 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

God FORMED the body out of dust from the ground; then God JUMP-STARTED the living air-breather by puffing a puff of air into his nostrils! That's what a "SOUL" is!

Good points presented - so a living soul is our body and consciousness ?? 

Now in Mathew chapter 10 Jesus says the following - 

26 “So have no fear of them; for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, utter in the light; and what you hear whispered, proclaim upon the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. 

so is Jesus differentiating between soul and body - between spirit and flesh ??? 

any ideas about this please.