What is a "soul?"

[warrior12]

The OP has CHOSEN to ignore scripture to his peril, as scripture tells us CLEARLY, that believers are now spiritual beings with the spirit of Christ residing in us.  All the verses below testifies to this.  How could he ignore this.  

This needs an explanation as his interpretation of scripture to his claim is surely not biblical.  If not then explain the following verses or in fact the whole of Romans 8, which describes the beliver life through the spirit.

Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)

⁹ But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

¹⁰ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

¹¹ But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

¹² Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

¹³ For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

¹⁴ For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

¹⁵ For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

¹⁶ The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

[Waggles]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

It's called "hallucinations." When we are deprived of oxygen for some extended period, the result is a feeling most of us have never experienced. There's a sense of euphoria and disorientation. Our brains MAKE THINGS UP! Read about the OBE's that Muslims or Buddhists have, and they are FAR different than those recorded by Christians.

Hhhhmmmm not convinced. 

There are accounts where people in out of body episodes have seen what was going on and when regaining consciousness can tell in detail what was happening around them while they were dead. That ain't a hallucination. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Waggles

[DeighAnn]

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, DeighAnn.

No. Jacob was having a DREAM!!! It meant ONLY that He was at a spot that should be noted as God's House! Hebrew: Beit-Eel ("Bethel") = the "House of God." This was the spot that housed the Tabernacle when the children of Israel arrived in the Land from Egypt.

Angels are NOT "souls," nor are you a "spiritual body covered in flesh." I don't know where you get such a notion, but it does NOT come from the Scriptures! 

Do you still understand 'leaven'?  

 A dream JUST about the 'spot'?  OK, again, we see it different.  

 

1 Corinthians 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

So you think we will be judging soulless entities now? 

trying to 'define' soul apart from the whole being is leading to WHAT?   Is the word of God becoming more clear?  reaching deeper understandings?  





Revelation 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen,


I FELL DOWN TO WORSHIP BEFORE THE FEET OF THE ANGEL 
which shewed me these things.

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not:

FOR I AM THY FELLOWSERVANT AND OF THY BRETHREN THE PROPHETS,

and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.


NO need for us to continue on with this as We DON'T see or understand the word of God in any way .    

[Retrobyter]

On 4/14/2021 at 2:30 AM, warrior12 said:

The OP has CHOSEN to ignore scripture to his peril, as scripture tells us CLEARLY, that believers are now spiritual beings with the spirit of Christ residing in us.  All the verses below testifies to this.  How could he ignore this.

Shalom, warrior12.

Are you asking a question? Usually, they end with question marks. I'm not ignoring the verses below; I LOVE those verses! I just see them differently than you do. Perhaps, it would help to start with Romans 1:

Romans 1:1-7 (KJV)

1 Paul, a servant (slave) of Jesus Christ (Yeshua` the Messiah), called to be an apostle (one sent away to represent another ), separated unto the gospel of God (God's good news), 2 (Which he had promised afore (beforehand) by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord (God's Son Yeshua` the Messiah our Master), which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints (holy ones): Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

So, right there in his salutation, Paul makes mention of the Father-Son relationship that God the Father and the Son of God have. Verse 3 alludes to the Davidic Covenant in 2 Samuel 7:1-17 and 1 Chronicles 17:1-15.

And, it is "according to the spirit of holiness" which is an ATTITUDE of holiness; that is, God has SINGLED OUT Yeshua` for His CLEANLINESS in being sinless! 

Then, He points out that we, too, are "among those who are Yeshua`s 'called to be singled out (holy) for our cleanliness in the Messiah'," at least, the ones in Rome were, and he mentions their ("our") relationship with that SAME GOD as OUR Father and that we, too, who are "in Yeshua` the Messiah" are "beloved of God!"

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This needs an explanation as his interpretation of scripture to his claim is surely not biblical.  If not then explain the following verses or in fact the whole of Romans 8, which describes the beliver life through the spirit.

Sure. So, when we get to Romans 8 (and you've done so well in quoting verses 9-16, that I'll just put my comments after the verses when comments are needed), we see...

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Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)

⁹ But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I never said that the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the "Spirit the-Holy of-God") doesn't come to live within us; however, that does nothing to our "make-up," to that of which we consist! We just now have God's ATTITUDE, His INFLUENCE, upon us; it's through HIS "WIND" that we have a changed mind! However, notice the CHANGE which is added, the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym was also upon Yeshua` the Messiah (Matthew 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32-34); therefore, He is also the Messiah's "Spirit," the Messiah's "WIND!"

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¹⁰ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

¹¹ But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

WE'VE BEEN "TAGGED!" Through the influence of the Ruwach, although we shall die, the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym is LIFE! When the Messiah returns, that same Ruwach who resurrected the Messiah from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive again through His INFLUENCE who dwells within you!

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¹² Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

¹³ For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify ("put to death" in attitude) the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

¹⁴ For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

¹⁵ For ye have not received the spirit of bondage (the attitude of bondage) again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption (the attitude of adoption), whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

¹⁶ The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

So, it is the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym, the HOLY (BEING SINGLED OUT AS CLEAN) WIND (and INFLUENCE) OF GOD, who adds His testimony to our own, that we are the children ("sons") of God!

See, it's one thing to make the claim, "I am one of God's sons"; but, it's quite another if the FATHER says, "Yep, he's one of MY sons!" We are ADOPTED as His children and God doesn't reject His own!

In Hebrew, the words "my father" is the one word "Aviy," (with the letter "bet" undotted, it's a "vet"), but Strong's lists it as "Abiy," (as though it was still the letter "bet"). This can be seen in Genesis 50:5 as the first word in the Hebrew text, for example.

Little children who are just learning to talk have trouble with multiple vowel sounds, which require a change in the way one forms his or her mouth, even in two-syllable words. So, in English, instead of saying, "Mommy," they say, "Mama"; instead of saying, "Daddy," they say, "Dada!" In Hebrew, it's no different: Instead of saying "Abiy," they say, "Abba!" We are like little children just learning to talk, to God!

[Retrobyter]

On 4/14/2021 at 3:12 AM, Waggles said:

Hhhhmmmm not convinced. 

There are accounts where people in out of body episodes have seen what was going on and when regaining consciousness can tell in detail what was happening around them while they were dead. That ain't a hallucination. 

Shalom, Waggles.

Nor am I convinced of your position: Which was it? Was it "coming back alive after being dead?" or was it "regaining consciousness?" I believe it was merely the latter.

Our five senses are pretty amazing. When one goes missing, like sight, hearing kicks in and helps us mentally "see" what's there. When one is "unconscious," it doesn't always mean that he or she has NO consciousness! Sometimes, these events are incorporated into one's dreams; sometimes one is conscious but unable to communicate; and sometimes one is "understanding" what is going on around him or her through his or her subconscious. However it happens, it doesn't mean that one was "dead!" If they could be revived and regain consciousness, then they were never truly dead, yet!

Hebrews 9:27-28 (KJV)

27 And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

I should mention, too, that we are instructed NOT to believe in the fantasies of men but in God's Word, the Messiah!

Colossians 2:8-9 (KJV)

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

2 Timothy 4:1-4 (KJV)

1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Retrobyter
to add a vital thought

[Waggles]

17 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

and sometimes one is "understanding" what is going on around him or her through his or her subconscious. However it happens, it doesn't mean that one was "dead!" If they could be revived and regain consciousness, then they were never truly dead, yet!

You are in denial of the many true experiences that people have in operation theatres and in car crashes and the like. People who are unconscious with their eyes closed do not see and hear what is going on around them - and certainly not from a high vantage point.

A brother in the Lord was dead for half-an-hour before the cardiac doctors kicked started his heart again. He received an amazing miracle and returned to life without any brain damage from oxygen deprivation. Truly miraculous.

People do die for a short time and return. I suppose because it is not their time by God's reckoning. But that is not in conflict with Hebrews 9:27 which is about the final breath and no returns. 

Luke 7:11 Soon afterward he went to a city called Na′in, and his disciples and a great crowd went with him. 12 As he drew near to the gate of the city, behold, a man who had died was being carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow; and a large crowd from the city was with her. 13 And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her and said to her, “Do not weep.” 14 And he came and touched the bier, and the bearers stood still. And he said, “Young man, I say to you, arise.” 15 And the dead man sat up, and began to speak. And he gave him to his mother. 16 Fear seized them all; and they glorified God, saying, “A great prophet has arisen among us!” and “God has visited his people!” 17 And this report concerning him spread through the whole of Judea and all the surrounding country.

[Retrobyter]

35 minutes ago, Waggles said:

You are in denial of the many true experiences that people have in operation theatres and in car crashes and the like. People who are unconscious with their eyes closed do not see and hear what is going on around them - and certainly not from a high vantage point.

A brother in the Lord was dead for half-an-hour before the cardiac doctors kicked started his heart again. He received an amazing miracle and returned to life without any brain damage from oxygen deprivation. Truly miraculous.

People do die for a short time and return. I suppose because it is not their time by God's reckoning. But that is not in conflict with Hebrews 9:27 which is about the final breath and no returns. 

Shalom, Waggles.

So, how do you know which is which? How can you tell when a person is revivable, still alive but only barely so; how can you tell when a person has died (even for 1/2 hour) and is brought back to life (resurrected); and how can you tell when a person has taken his "final breath and no returns?" Rather than believe a story that one like that will tell upon re-awakening, I'll just stick to the Scriptures that I KNOW are true.

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Luke 7:11 Soon afterward he went to a city called Na′in, and his disciples and a great crowd went with him. 12 As he drew near to the gate of the city, behold, a man who had died was being carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow; and a large crowd from the city was with her. 13 And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her and said to her, “Do not weep.” 14 And he came and touched the bier, and the bearers stood still. And he said, “Young man, I say to you, arise.” 15 And the dead man sat up, and began to speak. And he gave him to his mother. 16 Fear seized them all; and they glorified God, saying, “A great prophet has arisen among us!” and “God has visited his people!” 17 And this report concerning him spread through the whole of Judea and all the surrounding country.

This is a FAR DIFFERENT case than what you're talking about! This is a TRUE resurrection performed by the power of God through His Son, Yeshua` the Messiah to be King! This only son of a widow woman was INDEED "DEAD!" The Scriptures TELL us that this is true! Besides, we don't know HOW LONG HE HAD BEEN DEAD! The custom of the Jews at that time was to wait 3 days before burial to be sure he wouldn't revive!

Now, I'm not saying that God doesn't still perform miracles, but BE CAREFUL BELIEVING EVERYTHING YOU HEAR! WEIGH THEM IN LIGHT OF THE SCRIPTURES, and "LET GOD BE TRUE, AND EVERY MAN A LIAR!" Be like the Bereans!

Acts 17:10-11 (KJV)

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Retrobyter
to add the other possibility

[Waggles]

15 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Now, I'm not saying that God doesn't still perform miracles, but BE CAREFUL BELIEVING EVERYTHING YOU HEAR!

This testimony is from a man in our church well known to us all. His medical episode made the local newspaper.

He was dead for over half-an-hour and God raised him up and brought him back to life without intellectual impairment. 

[warrior12]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I never said that the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the "Spirit the-Holy of-God") doesn't come to live within us; however, that does nothing to our "make-up," to that of which we consist! We just now have God's ATTITUDE, His INFLUENCE, upon us; it's through HIS "WIND" that we have a changed mind! However, notice the CHANGE which is added, the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym was also upon Yeshua` the Messiah (Matthew 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32-34); therefore, He is also the Messiah's "Spirit," the Messiah's "WIND!"

 OP, I am not taking away the fact that you are indeed a student of the ancient languages and can put forth interpretations of the original words into English.  We, who don't know the original languages have to rely on the translation that is available to us.  To me,the following verse is Black and White and how to break it down further when is plainly state that we have a spirit of our own .  

It says below that God spirit bear witness with "OUR SPIRIT" that "WE" are the children of God.  God is not bearing witness with his own holy spirit, but our individual spirit.  That is the way I see it and it makes sense.  I await your breakdown of this scripture verse with all the word definitions and the rest you use to justify your theology on this matter.   Thank you

 

Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁶ The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Edited April 16, 2021 by warrior12

[DeighAnn]

On 4/13/2021 at 8:16 PM, Retrobyter said:

Precisely! And, that process TAKES TIME! You're not wrong on this: The plant that comes out of the ground is of a different caliber than the seed that goes into the ground, and that IS what Paul was teaching us. HOWEVER, that is not a "same-day" change!

1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Why would WE need to stay in the ground 'and grow' like a plant when we can be changed in the twinkling of an eye?

But I understand that is how you see Pauls teaching,

BUT I see Pauls teaching having to do with 2 BODIES and it's

 Bye Bye flesh/terrestrial/earthy body,

HELLO spiritual/celestial/heavenly body.  

Who knows?  Maybe what we believe to be truth,  will be OUR truth and if that is the case then 

you stay in the dirt or turn to 'vapor' or   ??  IDK, and wait till Christ returns and 're animates' that decaying flesh body

and I will 

do a quick pass through death, immediately receive my new body, say Adios to that dead never to be seen again flesh, and go to that mansion in the sky to return with Him and watch your re-animation. 


Would I be correct saying you are just as happy and comfortable with your beliefs as you are uncomfortable with mine?  Just wondering if we have the same comfort/discomfort feelings.

 

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

John 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

John 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

SINCE WE HAVE ALREADY COVERED THAT, LET'S NOT REPEAT IT, OK?
 

John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.


 

John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Do you believe that 'eternal life' begins after resurrection only? another way,  Can one receive eternal life and still die/sleep? or hopefully you understand what I am trying to ask, I just can't find the words right now.  


 Sorry, I can't remember what your reply was, if you would refresh my memory and  Is there a 'last day' scripture written after Christ is crucified?