Transvestites in the Church?

[LadyKay]

18 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

1 Timothy 2:12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority of a man [Greek, authentein andros], but to be in stillness.

Plenty of church women certainly are wearing ministerial vestments these days, both physically and metaphorically. While the men are often sitting silently.

You need to be more clear as to what your topic is. Because I am not going to get into the " women should be silent in church" debate again on here. Had I known that was your topic, I would not have replied to your post.  Which I thought was asking a question that being "are there trans people in your church?"  

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by LadyKay

[WilliamL]

6 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

You need to be more clear as to what your topic is.

The topic was explained in the first post.

Always amazing how many people come in in the middle of a discussion, and never read the premise of the first post. See it all the time here.

[LadyKay]

28 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

The topic was explained in the first post.

Always amazing how many people come in in the middle of a discussion, and never read the premise of the first post. See it all the time here.

Your first post:  

Quote

Deuteronomy 22:5 A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the LORD your God.

Are men in the Church wearing, spiritually-speaking, women's clothes, and women wearing men's clothes?

I think anyone can understand why I would think that is is about men and women wearing each other's clothing. 

I mean why didn't you just quote 1 Timothy 2:12 at the start. Then we could have avoided the confusion?  Deuteronomy 22:5  is talking about clothing.  

I have poor eye site and sometimes words are not clear to me. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by LadyKay

[JohnR7]

On 10/29/2020 at 4:23 PM, WilliamL said:

So I repeat the question: are women in the Church "wearing garments" like men, and vice versa -- spiritually speaking?  In their minds?

Everyone is called to give a witness and a testimony as to what God is doing in their life. Older women are to teach younger women and younger women are to teach the children. A women is not to have authority over a man. (1 Timothy 2:12)

 

[leah777]

36 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

The topic was explained in the first post.

Always amazing how many people come in in the middle of a discussion, and never read the premise of the first post. See it all the time here.

I thought you meant what is the spiritual position on clothing for men and women.

[WilliamL]

5 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

I think anyone can understand why I would think that is is about men and women wearing each other's clothing. 

Is is, "spiritually speaking." The concept of garments in the New Testament generally takes a spiritual connotation, such as:

Rev. 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

19:8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

[WilliamL]

4 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

Everyone is called to give a witness and a testimony as to what God is doing in their life. Older women are to teach younger women and younger women are to teach the children. A women is not to have authority over a man. (1 Timothy 2:12)

 

The literal Greek reads "of a man," not "over a man." The latter is a presumption of the translator inserted into the text.

These two readings mean different things: the former fits into the idea of a woman becoming like  a man, that is, metaphorically wearing a man's clothing, while the latter is more restrictive in its understanding, referring exclusively to dominance over men.

Does God intend men and women to have exclusive gifts and callings according to their sex, or does God intend all gifts to be unisexual?

Current political correctness emphasizes the latter, of course.

[leah777]

2 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

The literal Greek reads "of a man," not "over a man." The latter is a presumption of the translator inserted into the text.

These two readings mean different things: the former fits into the idea of a woman becoming like  a man, that is, metaphorically wearing a man's clothing, while the latter is more restrictive in its understanding, referring exclusively to dominance over men.

Does God intend men and women to have exclusive gifts and callings according to their sex, or does God intend all gifts to be unisexual?

Current political correctness emphasizes the latter, of course.

It all depends on the situation. A woman can be a teacher, but not over men. A woman can preach to other women. Men and women have all the gift options, but the appropriate use of the gifts varies.

You sound like you have a take on this, so why not say what you are getting at?

[WilliamL]

6 minutes ago, leah777 said:

It all depends on the situation. A woman can be a teacher, but not over men. A woman can preach to other women. Men and women have all the gift options, but the appropriate use of the gifts varies.

You sound like you have a take on this, so why not say what you are getting at?

I disagree that men and women have all the gift options. For example, men cannot conceive and bear children, and thus should not be midwives. And make no mistake, conception (ensoulment) is a spiritual act as well as a physical one.

Likewise, women cannot receive priesthood authority -- no such instance of such authorized by God in the OT or NT. When Miriam tried it, God struck her with leprosy; but not Aaron.

BTW, priesthood authority and prophetic authority are two entirely different things. The latter is asexual, but not the former.

 

 

[leah777]

46 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

I disagree that men and women have all the gift options. For example, men cannot conceive and bear children, and thus should not be midwives. And make no mistake, conception (ensoulment) is a spiritual act as well as a physical one.

Likewise, women cannot receive priesthood authority -- no such instance of such authorized by God in the OT or NT. When Miriam tried it, God struck her with leprosy; but not Aaron.

BTW, priesthood authority and prophetic authority are two entirely different things. The latter is asexual, but not the former.

 

 

Since when was bearing children one of the Gifts of the Spirit?

Miriam became leprous due to her words, not her sex.

Edited November 1, 2020 by leah777
Clarification