Why good men go to hell?

[Your closest friendnt]

9 hours ago, Starise said:

 

Starise  1,384

Posted 7 hours ago

 

You are ignoring sections of scripture to say this. You are rewording my original comment. Abraham's belief in Yahweh was counted to him for righteousness.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[johnthebaptist]

3 hours ago, David1701 said:

We are not in heaven or hell yet.  That happens after we die.

Read Matthew 4:17 again.

[johnthebaptist]

11 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Anyone can quote scripture or cite an address. The reason this conversation exists is because verses are being interpreted differently or made to say diverse things. Matthew 4:17 states absolutely nothing about heaven or hell and it certainly says nothing about what happens after death. What it states is the KoG was near at the time Jesus was preaching...... and David and I are not going to disagree on that point. 

So when you quote scripture or cite and address do more. Tell us what that verse means to you and how and why you think that is relevant. 

Thx

We can't understand Matthew 4:17 ("Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.") till we repent of our sin.

[johnthebaptist]

5 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Why don't you start by NOT telling me what I will or won't accept? I am perfectly capable of articulating my position(s); I do not need you to tell me what I believe. I perfectly accept the kingdom was at hand in the gospel era and remains so today. 

And you should not have thought otherwise. 

It's crappy that you did so. 

Keep the posts about the posts and not the posters. You do that and we'll be fine. If something I post is unclear then ask. Under no circumstances is it appropriate for you to ever tell anyone you know what they will or will not accept. 

Matthew 4:17 is a simple command: Repent (of our sin). When we do, life clears up. But few want to repent.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

@Your closest friendnt If I understand the "Worthy" pin correctly then there's agreement with my post. @Starise can speak for himself but I suspect he also will agree with that post. Assuming so, then is there some dispute? How is Starise "putting mud in the water"? 

I have found your earlier post in the wisdom of a mediator, and the "worthy" is a token to reflect that and it also signifies my acceptance, to comply with your request.  

So I am working on the project at hand and I need to carefully edit my post with a lot of patience to make sure it reflects correctly the meaning of my thoughts. My first language is Greek and I have no problem with the syntax in French but I do in English as the structure of the thought line and that of the sentences are not the same.  

To repeat my self the "worthy " is not an agreement to the issues at hand, but a star in the way you got involved and the wisdom of how you took the matter in your hands and made excellent questions to me, which made me very excited about, and I am working on your request. A little more time for my reply as I not reading from a text book, it's not easy to find the correct words to express my thoughts, it's a struggle to me as my vocabulary is not as reach as some other members in worthy. One more time I have to applaud your leadership. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

8 hours ago, Josheb said:

@Your closest friendnt If I understand the "Worthy" pin correctly then there's agreement with my post. @Starise can speak for himself but I suspect he also will agree with that post. Assuming so, then is there some dispute? How is Starise "putting mud in the water"? 

With Abraham the Lord brought something new, a new Inheritance for the seed of Abraham. 

At first we will look at man's Inheritance after the fall. 

Abel was  the first man to die, and is noted that he died in righteousness. 

At his death neither the Lord or Abel are in gladness the joy and gladness of been together for ever. 

The Lord is in mourning as he hears the cries of Abel from a distance and while he did not avenge the death of Abel with the death of Kain, the Lord swore to take revenge on the one who had the right to take Abel in his captivity...and he said the revenge is mine, promising that the day will come that he will destroyed the authority of the Devil to take Abel on Captivity. 

Abel the righteous one was taken in Captivity " no one can escape". 

The Lord sow his children taken away at death. 

Noah did not escape, the Fathers of the lineage of Abraham did not escape the Captivity but Abraham and his seed after him escaped the Captivity. 

Enoch escaped because the Lord took him before he died. 

God to make it possible for Abraham and his descendants to escape the Captivity he set him apart from the rest of the world in life and in death.

Abraham inherit the Land of Canaan the Lords land , a holy land for this life, and in death the Lord gave him his own place apart from the rest of the world. The Bossom of Abraham an also descending Inheritance. But out of the jurisdiction of the God of the dead. 

Abraham was alive to God when he lived and for the first time a man was alive to his God after his death. 

God made Abraham the Patriarch of his people and that's where Abraham welcomed his offsprings at death, they were still alive to God but they gathered to their Patriarch's Abraham Bossom after their death and not to the God of the dead. 

Till the time when Jesus Christ immediately after his death he descended to them to make good his promise to Abraham and to David and to the seed of Abraham that he will soon take them to his Heavenly Inheritance, which happened at the time of his resurrection. 

While Abraham and his descendants with him were waiting in the Bossom of Abraham they were not under the Captivity of the man's Inheritance because of the fall. 

They were set apart from the rest of the world. 

They were there waiting for the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that the Christ of God one day he will descent down there and take them to his Heavenly Inheritance. This is the good news God gave to Abraham and to his seed after him.

(the Gospel to Abraham, the good news of the Heavenly Inheritance to come)

In due time John the Baptist when he descended to Abraham his Inheritance after death he told everything to Abraham snd that the time is near at hand for the fulfillment of the promises.

There John the son of Zaharias the priest was waiting to welcome Jesus Christ, John the Baptist was fullfiling his mission to prepair the people for the coming of their Lord their God ...EMANUEL, this is Jesus Christ. 

Jesus Christ testify to that when he said that Abraham, Issac and Jacob were gathered to their Patriarch Abraham and are separated from the rest of the world and he is still their God and they are alive to him. 

God said they are mine, they are alive unto me, and I am not the God of the dead but the God of the living.

Abraham and his descendants were not taken CAPTIVES at the time of their death. They were at the place appointed by God for them while waiting for the Christ Jesus to inherit Heaven so he can take them there with him at the time of the resurrection. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Diaste]

On 1/6/2021 at 12:34 PM, Starise said:

Title- Why Good Men Go To Hell?

There are no good men. The opening premise is false.

Right. I feel it was by design as it's an argument against believing in a God who sends members of the earth to hell when by the standards of mankind they appear 'good'.

But I agree with you. "Good" is defined by the Creator, not us.

[Diaste]

On 1/6/2021 at 8:33 PM, LearningToLetGo said:

Wouldn't this also mean that no one is bad, and that words like 'good' and 'bad' are meaningless when used to describe human affairs?

I agree. It's faith though grace that saves. It's confession of the Lord Jesus and belief in the resurrection. This has little to nothing to do with inherent or congenital traits real or imagined. 

[Diaste]

On 1/7/2021 at 12:19 AM, TheBlade said:

Yeah.. your name is in His book or its not.  What you did in this life will have rewards or burn up. Now unless one is blind they would have no sin.. 

Yes. It looks to me like we aren't being saved because we are 'good' nor condemned because we are 'bad'. I don't think that concept ever arises in salvation or condemnation. "If your name is in the book..." is a very apt conclusion, imo.

In Matt 25 I don't see Jesus say 'good' or 'bad' once. In fact it looks like the ones we would call 'bad' simply didn't behave in a manner approved and lacked insight and understanding. While the ones we would call 'good' had the right behavior at critical moments.

I hope we are never judged on the concept of 'good'. No one gets into the House of God in that case.

[Diaste]

20 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

I can't find anything in the Bible that says not to put my hand on a hot stove. Does that prove it's okay to put my hand on a hot stove?

Lots of gaps in scripture. I feel if the scripture is silent, we should also be silent.