Seven Year Tribulation?

[DeighAnn]

48 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Well, that's convenient, but it's also not true. There's no need for a SECOND split since the 70th Seven falls on the heels of the 69th Seven.

Wouldn't that be the first 7 years after Christ was raised?  What happen during that time? 29AD - 36  up to  34 - 41??  

I hate math, truly.  Or it hates me.  Either way...

Christ is cut off AFTER the 69.  SO does that mean He is cut off IN THE 70TH?  

And if that is true then what does the destruction of the temple have to do with any of it?  I'm sorry, I'm tired.  I will try tomorrow.  Thank you and good night   D

[Retrobyter]

 

On 7/18/2021 at 11:19 AM, DeighAnn said:

Hi Retro, 

 

 

 

I will get more specific and then will let it go as something we will have to disagree upon unless you have a reason to continue.  But first, Please
explain what 'and I sympathize with your thinking' means exactly.  Is this a true feeling of yours, and if so,  what does that mean?? (I keep reading it over and over and really don't know what it means but it just keeps feeling....ucky,  for lack of a better way to say it.  I apologize UP FRONT if I am reading it wrong, that is why before I allow any negative feelings to occur on my end, especially because of a miscommunication on my part I thought I best attempt to clear it up by asking.  If we were talking face to face I would be able to discern from your tone and expression but in writing all that is lost and going with the content that follows... I hope you can understand why I find it concerning. 

Shalom, DeighAnn.

No, I was being serious. It's a true feeling. See, from what I could glean from your post, you're saying that the Jews had no choice in the matter when it comes to being "blinded" to the truth about their Messiah. Therefore, they shouldn't be punished for something that is beyond their control.

I can indeed sympathize with that point of view. However, that is only true for INDIVIDUAL Jews, not for the people as a whole. This blindness was something that THEY brought on themselves as a people! They've grown to be such a close-knit family, that they caution each other from generation to generation against the "polytheism" of the Christians. They warn their children against believing in the "Christ" of the Christian Church, and most only know about the Roman Catholic Church being that "Christian Church." They have educated rabbis who argue against "Jesus Christ" being the Messiah they are anticipating, and their points are that He did NOT fulfill the prophecies of being the Victorious Conquerer, called "the Messiah, the Son of David." They neglect the prophecies about Him being "the Messiah, the Son of Joseph (the Joseph of Genesis)" as in the "suffering and dying Messiah." And, Orthodox Jews DO believe in the ONE AND ONLY coming of the Messiah sometime in the future.

I believe that they will have a second chance when Yeshua` returns as the Messiah, the Son of David. When they realize that He WAS who He claimed to be and see the nailprints and the wounds from His crucifixion, they SHALL wail in lament and remorse for what they as a people have done, and they shall be led in the mourning by HIS OWN FAMILY! His ancestors all the way back to David! That's what Zechariah 12 is all about.

Zechariah 12:10-14 (KJV)

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him (the Messiah), as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. 12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart;
the family of the house of DAVID apart, and their wives apart;
the family of the house of NATHAN apart, and their wives apart; 
13 The family of the house of LEVI apart, and their wives apart;
the family of SHIMEI apart, and their wives apart; 
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

These four names, in this order, are mentioned in the Messiah's lineage of Luke 3:

Luke 3:23-38 (KJV)

23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph,
which was the son of Heli, 
24 Which was the son of Matthat,
which was the son of Levi,
which was the son of Melchi,
which was the son of Janna,
which was the son of Joseph, 
25 Which was the son of Mattathias,
which was the son of Amos,
which was the son of Naum,
which was the son of Esli,
which was the son of Nagge, 
26 Which was the son of Maath,
which was the son of Mattathias,
which was the son of SEMEI (Greek doesn't have a "sh" sound and vowels are relative in Hebrew),
which was the son of Joseph,
which was the son of Juda, 
27 Which was the son of Joanna,
which was the son of Rhesa,
which was the son of Zorobabel,
which was the son of Salathiel,
which was the son of Neri, 
28 Which was the son of Melchi,
which was the son of Addi,
which was the son of Cosam,
which was the son of Elmodam,
which was the son of Er, 
29 Which was the son of Jose,
which was the son of Eliezer,
which was the son of Jorim,
which was the son of Matthat,
which was the son of LEVI, 
30 Which was the son of Simeon,
which was the son of Juda,
which was the son of Joseph,
which was the son of Jonan,
which was the son of Eliakim, 
31 Which was the son of Melea,
which was the son of Menan,
which was the son of Mattatha,
which was the son of NATHAN, 
which was the son of DAVID, 
32 Which was the son of Jesse,
which was the son of Obed,
which was the son of Booz,
which was the son of Salmon,
which was the son of Naasson, 
33 Which was the son of Aminadab,
which was the son of Aram,
which was the son of Esrom,
which was the son of Phares,
which was the son of Juda (Judah), 
34 Which was the son of Jacob (Israel),
which was the son of Isaac,
which was the son of Abraham,
which was the son of Thara,
which was the son of Nachor, 
35 Which was the son of Saruch,
which was the son of Ragau,
which was the son of Phalec,
which was the son of Heber,
which was the son of Sala, 
36 Which was the son of Cainan,
which was the son of Arphaxad,
which was the son of Sem,
which was the son of Noe,
which was the son of Lamech, 
37 Which was the son of Mathusala,
which was the son of Enoch,
which was the son of Jared,
which was the son of Maleleel,
which was the son of Cainan, 
38 Which was the son of Enos,
which was the son of Seth,
which was the son of Adam,
which was the son of God.

Of course, this list of names is going BACK through time, but if one reverses the order, one will see that these names match the ones in Zechariah 12.

See, some people think of the Resurrection as a REWARD for being justified by God in this life. However, Resurrection is something that GOD does, and it is REGARDLESS the learning that had occurred in the person's lifetime. So, if a person had already learned to come humbly to God for His intervention in their life, okay, resurrection might be considered a RESULT of that justification by God.

BUT, when it comes to God's people - the FAMILY of the Son of God, Yeshua` the Messiah of God, they can be resurrected, IN SPITE OF THEIR lack of recognition of God's Son, so that they can MEET HIM for the first time and come to recognize His importance in their lives! And, when they see the WASTED TIME that they could have enjoyed His presence, they will MOURN His passing! This will be PARTICULARLY true of the Messiah's ancestors! Whether they only had one son, the ancestor of the Messiah, and they mourn for the Messiah as if they were mourning for their only son, or they had many sons and they were mourning for the firstborn that was the ancestor of the Messiah, they will be in bitterness for the GREAT LOSS they will feel!

On 7/18/2021 at 11:19 AM, DeighAnn said:

Anyway, 

these are the more specific reasons, on why I don't believe that it was to that one generation and that one generation only, EVEN though it was spoken to them (every word had to be spoken to someone of some generation and it is WHAT is said and what comes to pass that sometimes and not only to whom it is said, IMHO anyhow
 
1) God had been sending Prophets to Jerusalem for many many generations and many of them were killed throughout all that time something specific TO THE PLACE, not ONLY that one generation.  The Scribes and the Pharisees were not particular to just that one.

2) 'How often I would have gathered...' also does not speak to just the ONE but speaks to many generations who have resided in Jerusalem.
 
3) Once that generation was gone, Jerusalem remained.
 
I do believe the temple destruction was prophesized to OCCUR in that generation, but it was not ONLY because of the crucifixion of Christ/the Messiah but for what had taken place throughout many.  If it was just about that one generation only,  it would have been rebuilt,  don't you think?

Looking to your response...D

In a sense, I agree with you. That's why I don't think we have a good definition of what a "generation" (Greek: genea) means.

The English word "generation" is defined as ...

1 all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively: one of his generation's finest songwriters. • the average period, generally considered to be about thirty years, during which children are born and grow up, become adults, and begin to have children of their own: the same families have lived here for generations. • a set of members of a family regarded as a single step or stage in descent: [as modifier, in combination] :  a third-generation Canadian. • a single stage in the development of a type of product: a new generation of rear-engined sports cars.

However, the Greek word, genea, is said to mean:

Mark 9:19 (KJV)

19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation (Greek: genea), how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.

1074 genea (ghen-eh-ah'). From (a presumed derivative of) genos; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons) -- age, generation, nation, time.

BibleHub also notes that both Strong's and NAS Exhaustive Concordances say the definition is "Definition: race, family, generation."

Even in the list of Yeshua`s ancestors in Matthew 1, there were some in the line SKIPPED to make the "14 generations": 

Matthew 1:1-11 (KJV)

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2 Abraham begat Isaac;
and Isaac begat Jacob;
and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar;
and Phares begat Esrom;
and Esrom begat Aram; 
4 And Aram begat Aminadab;
and Aminadab begat Naasson;
and Naasson begat Salmon; 
5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab;
and Booz begat Obed of Ruth;
and Obed begat Jesse; 
6 And Jesse begat David the king;

and David the king begat (1) Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; 
7 And Solomon begat (2) Roboam;
and Roboam begat (3) Abia;
and Abia begat (4) Asa; 
8 And Asa begat (5) Josaphat;
and Josaphat begat (6) Joram;
and Joram begat (7) Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat (8) Joatham;
and Joatham begat (9) Achaz;
and Achaz begat (10) Ezekias; 
10 And Ezekias begat (11) Manasses;
and Manasses begat (12) Amon;
and Amon begat (13) Josias; 
11 And Josias begat (14) Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12 And after they were brought to Babylon,
Jechonias begat Salathiel;
and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 
13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud;
and Abiud begat Eliakim;
and Eliakim begat Azor; 
14 And Azor begat Sadoc;
and Sadoc begat Achim;
and Achim begat Eliud; 
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar;
and Eleazar begat Matthan;
and Matthan begat Jacob; 
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary,
of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations;
and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations;
and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

However, 1 Chronicles 3 tells us...

1 Chronicles 3:10-16 (KJV)

10 And (1) Solomon's son was (2) Rehoboam,
(3) Abia his son,
(4) Asa his son,
(5) Jehoshaphat his son, 
11 (6) Joram his son,
(7) Ahaziah his son,
Joash his son, 
12 Amaziah his son,
Azariah his son,
(8) Jotham his son, 
13 (9) Ahaz his son,
(10) Hezekiah his son,
(11) Manasseh his son, 
14 (12) Amon his son,
(13) Josiah his son. 
15 And the sons of Josiah were,
the firstborn Johanan,
the second Jehoiakim,
the third Zedekiah,
the fourth Shallum. 
16 And the sons of Jehoiakim:
(14) Jeconiah his son,
Zedekiah his son.

So, how is that "fourteen generations"?

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

No, I was being serious. It's a true feeling. See, from what I could glean from your post, you're saying that the Jews had no choice in the matter when it comes to being "blinded" to the truth about their Messiah. Therefore, they shouldn't be punished for something that is beyond their control.

Hi Retro,

They will wail and mourn but WHAT CHOICE have they had  BUT to pass on what they have known all this time being 'blinded' to any other truth?   Grafting the natural branches back in works even better.  

There is no doubt the two Houses will again become one and will surround the temple during the millennium just as they did before.  

God made covenants that can't be broken.  The two sticks will be joined and made one again. That's a given.  Just as Judah will be realizing who the MESSIAH is much of the House of Israel (Christians, He didn't lose any) will be realizing who they really are.  Most everyone is pretty messed up, but not for long

Oh, and all that number stuff, counting generations and what not....I'll just take your word for it if that's ok.   Thank you for the response....D  


 

[missmuffet]

I am not going to get caught up in this controversy. It can be a can of worms 

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Retro,

They will wail and mourn but WHAT CHOICE have they had  BUT to pass on what they have known all this time being 'blinded' to any other truth?   Grafting the natural branches back in works even better.  

Shalom, DeighAnn.

I agree! You talk about "grafting in the natural branches"; so, you're referring to Romans 11. The answer to your question is found there:

Romans 11:22-32 (KJV)

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell (the Jews), severity; but toward thee (believing Gentiles, Romans, in this case), goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into THEIR OWN olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness IN PART is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,

"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (i.e., God doesn't renege on His gifts and calling!). 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that THROUGH YOUR MERCY they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Believers, whether Israeli or Gentile, should show mercy to them to tell them the TRUTH, letting God remove their blindness, if He will, and show them what they are missing about their Messiah! Right now, this is an INDIVIDUAL matter, done one by one, and one-on-one. When the Messiah returns, THEN it will be a NATIONAL matter and ALL ISRAEL will have the veil lifted!

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

There is no doubt the two Houses will again become one and will surround the temple during the millennium just as they did before.  

God made covenants that can't be broken.  The two sticks will be joined and made one again. That's a given.  Just as Judah will be realizing who the MESSIAH is much of the House of Israel (Christians, He didn't lose any) will be realizing who they really are.  Most everyone is pretty messed up, but not for long

Yes, and Christians (who are GRAFTED INTO the House of Israel) will realize their PLACE within that House! One of those "covenants that can't be broken" is the DAVIDIC COVENANT. Where YHWH GOD, Yeshua`s Father, said to Nathan the prophet,

2 Samuel 7:8-17 (KJV)

8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts, "I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies."

"'Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house: 12 "And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up THY SEED after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I WILL STABLISH THE THRONE OF HIS KINGDOM FOR EVER. 14 I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And THINE HOUSE AND THY KINGDOM SHALL BE ESTABLISHED FOR EVER BEFORE THEE: THY THRONE SHALL BE ESTABLISHED FOR EVER."'"

17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Oh, and all that number stuff, counting generations and what not....I'll just take your word for it if that's ok.   Thank you for the response....D  

For you, then, focus on the NAMES, on the PEOPLE, and on the ACCOUNTS of their lives. EVERY name is a reference to that person's part he (or she) played in the life of the Messiah Yeshua`.

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Yes, and Christians (who are GRAFTED INTO the House of Israel) will realize their PLACE within that House! One of those "covenants that can't be broken" is the DAVIDIC COVENANT. Where YHWH GOD, Yeshua`s Father, said to Nathan the prophet,

Hi Retro, quick question, (don't agree with 1st above, then, kinda, then, yes). 
OK,
A person comes to you and tells you they just got blood tests back and turns out they are of the bloodline of the tribe of DAN, thousands of years ago scattered to the world.  

Up until then they believed they were a gentile 'grafted' in.  
Turns out they are a natural branch 'grafted' back in.  

With you being a math kinda person maybe you can figure a way to say this better than I can.  

ALL the peoples of the world basically stay planted where ever that is. Looking at old map that leaves the whole rest of the world as the places that God scattered sands of the sea, dust of the earth, stars of the sky migrate to and through.  Sure enough many of those countries become Christian nations. 

Christ didn't lose one of the lost sheep.  'ceptin....

DOESN'T that basically mean that the entire 'church' of today is made up of the original House of Israel descendants and so is mostly comprised of the natural branches?  

Doesn't that make what many call 'the gentile' church not really 'gentile' at all, but more a natural seed church after all the 

Gentiles were never scattered nor blessed with many descendants.  

So not possible to compare in numbers is it.    

I hope you are not pre trib rapture well even if you are if you could figure out a way to put this it would be REALLY appreciated.  Obviously I can't and that isn't from a lack of trying.  

Just in case you maybe had already done this as it just seems a natural road for you to have gone down...

If you have any thing,   thank you,   if not,    well not really fair to ask you to do my homework anyway....Thank you     D


 

[Retrobyter]

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Retro, quick question, (don't agree with 1st above, then, kinda, then, yes). 
OK,
A person comes to you and tells you they just got blood tests back and turns out they are of the bloodline of the tribe of DAN, thousands of years ago scattered to the world.  

Shalom, DeighAnn.

Actually, this is an IMPOSSIBLE scenario. "Blood tests" for genetics are determined by  the DNA found within the cells of an individual. They are COMPARED against known samples for similarities. The problem is this: Who do you know that can prove that he or she is from the tribe of Dan for comparison? No, something like this won't be determined until the Resurrected can confirm who is from whom. The only three tribes from whom accurate comparisons can be made are those from Judah, those from Benjamin, and those from Levi. This is because the Southern Kingdom of Judah was made up of people from these three tribes, and they came back to the Land after they had gone into captivity.

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Up until then they believed they were a gentile 'grafted' in.  
Turns out they are a natural branch 'grafted' back in.  

This may SEEM like a valid possibility; however, without hard evidence, it's nothing more than a fantasy, an unproven speculation.

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

With you being a math kinda person maybe you can figure a way to say this better than I can.  

ALL the peoples of the world basically stay planted where ever that is. Looking at old map that leaves the whole rest of the world as the places that God scattered sands of the sea, dust of the earth, stars of the sky migrate to and through.  Sure enough many of those countries become Christian nations.

Again, this is all just speculation without any solid evidence. It's "possible," mathematically speaking, but the ODDS of such a speculation having any truth to it are SO out of reach, that, for all practical reasons, it's as good as an IMPOSSIBILITY.

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 Christ didn't lose one of the lost sheep.  'ceptin....

... except the son of perdition, Judas Iscariot.

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

...

DOESN'T that basically mean that the entire 'church' of today is made up of the original House of Israel descendants and so is mostly comprised of the natural branches?

That would be nice, wouldn't it? No, again, there's no proof for such a stance. I recognize this as the British Israelism point of view, but without hard evidence, it's just a case of wishful thinking.

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Doesn't that make what many call 'the gentile' church not really 'gentile' at all, but more a natural seed church after all the 

Gentiles were never scattered nor blessed with many descendants.  

... WHICH is no proof at all! See, it's a nice belief that certain people have, but it's no better than the Black Hebrew Israelites movement. These are black separatists who are both antisemitic and anti-white hate groups, who say that ALL tribes of Israel were of Black, Hispanic, or Native American background!

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

So, [it's] not possible to compare in numbers, is it? 

Nope. Not possible.

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I hope you are not pre trib rapture well even if you are if you could figure out a way to put this it would be REALLY appreciated.  Obviously I can't and that isn't from a lack of trying.

No, I'm not a pre-trib rapturist, but regardless, I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket, particularly THIS basket!

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Just in case you maybe had already done this as it just seems a natural road for you to have gone down...

If you have any thing,   thank you,   if not,    well not really fair to ask you to do my homework anyway....Thank you     D

I've considered the claims of British Israelism before (also called "Armstrongism" after Hebert W. Armstrong who was its proponent in the 1960s, founder and former Pastor General of the Worldwide Church of God), but I found no real value in their claims.

[DeighAnn]

18 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, DeighAnn.

Actually, this is an IMPOSSIBLE scenario. "Blood tests" for genetics are determined by  the DNA found within the cells of an individual. They are COMPARED against known samples for similarities. The problem is this: Who do you know that can prove that he or she is from the tribe of Dan for comparison? No, something like this won't be determined until the Resurrected can confirm who is from whom. The only three tribes from whom accurate comparisons can be made are those from Judah, those from Benjamin, and those from Levi. This is because the Southern Kingdom of Judah was made up of people from these three tribes, and they came back to the Land after they had gone into captivity.

This may SEEM like a valid possibility; however, without hard evidence, it's nothing more than a fantasy, an unproven speculation.

Again, this is all just speculation without any solid evidence. It's "possible," mathematically speaking, but the ODDS of such a speculation having any truth to it are SO out of reach, that, for all practical reasons, it's as good as an IMPOSSIBILITY.

... except the son of perdition, Judas Iscariot.

That would be nice, wouldn't it? No, again, there's no proof for such a stance. I recognize this as the British Israelism point of view, but without hard evidence, it's just a case of wishful thinking.

... WHICH is no proof at all! See, it's a nice belief that certain people have, but it's no better than the Black Hebrew Israelites movement. These are black separatists who are both antisemitic and anti-white hate groups, who say that ALL tribes of Israel were of Black, Hispanic, or Native American background!

Nope. Not possible.

No, I'm not a pre-trib rapturist, but regardless, I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket, particularly THIS basket!

I've considered the claims of British Israelism before (also called "Armstrongism" after Hebert W. Armstrong who was its proponent in the 1960s, founder and former Pastor General of the Worldwide Church of God), but I found no real value in their claims.

HI Retro, 

YOU are EXACTLY right!! man can't know.  AND what is the beauty of that?  That all men can 'believe' they are and act accordingly there by not being looked upon as not caring for their heritage.  

Still, man not knowing, doesn't change the FACTS at all.  Our knowledge or ignorance doesn't change what God has told us has taken place at all.  


The House of Israel was scattered. 

Their number would be as the sands of the sea. (minus the 2 1/2 tribes as 1/2 the Levites would have gone with the Northern Tribes,  being the Priests and all)  

Jesus came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.  Time in Egypt tells us how fast they were out multiplying the competition that number had to jump way up when they all went out to discover and settle the world.  I can't imagine it took very long to hear Christ's message and I am sure it would be through them the remnant today is to be found.  That is just how God operates.  
I may not be able to add and subtract but I can certainly deduce with evidence so easy to follow.  What I don't know takes way back seat to what I am told.  What is written over what is not but never letting commons sense fly out the window.  The majority of those who call themselves Christians by the power and promise of God ALONE,  necessitate this to be truth.  IMHO

Do you THINK it has anything to do with ESAU.  Esau didn't care about his heritage... sold it CHEAP.  Wanted it back TOO LATE.  

So, who would you want to be on Judgment day? 

Someone who wasn't one of the natural branches, yet believed and treated his heritage as if he were?
or 
Someone who was one of the natural branches, yet treated his heritage like he wasn't?

AGAIN, our ignorance or knowledge of who are or are not doesn't change what God has ordained to happen. 

It just is.  Thank you very much... D

And I have no clue who those people are or what they believed.  Again though, thank you    D

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, all.

The bottom line is this: I don't believe there IS a "7-year tribulation" at all. Instead, the "tribulation" (Greek: thlipsis = "pressure") began in the First Century and has continued ever since. This "pressure" - this "tribulation" - has lasted so long that THAT fact is what makes it a "Great Tribulation!"

Also, it's primarily a "pressure" put upon the Jewish family for their refusal to accept the Messiah as their King when they had the chance. However, don't get me wrong; they will receive another chance in the near future to get it right, and this time, prophecy says that they will accept Him as they should have done the first time! Indeed, many are coming to accept the Lord Yeshua` as God's Messiah (Anointed) to be King, even now!

The final "Week" of years (Hebrew: shaaVu`iym = "Sevens"; shaaVuwa` echad = "one Seven"), being divided in half by the Messiah Himself, act as "bookends" to the Great Tribulation. However, that time period is that period in which the Messiah offers the Kingdom to Israel. THAT is the "covenant" to which the prophecy refers when Daniel 9:27 says, "He shall confirm a covenant with many for one week." Like His ancestor, King David, the Messiah will be the King of the Jews for that one Seven BEFORE the Kingdom is broadened to all of Israel and then over other nations. Unlike His ancestor, there will be no end to the Messiah's Kingdom. He will reign from Jerusalem forever.

These are the facts from prophecy in God's Word - words of prophecy that can NEVER be annulled.

[Leonardo Von]

Quote

Seven Year Tribulation?

For those who are in Christ, the tribulation begins now because the love of many will wax cold (Mat 24:12 - and this pandemic will accelerate this process):

• 2Ti 3:12 -> "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.".