Our Generation's "Tower of Babel"

[DeighAnn]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Umbarger said:

DeighAnn, I think that we basically agree. I was responding to some of the objections that others had posed here based on those texts that refer to angels interacting with human beings, including eating things (as Abraham's three visitors did). Whether or not an angel can choose to assume bodily form is an interesting question. But it is certainly not their natural state, as you demonstrate with those brilliant texts you assembled for us. In fact, elsewhere Aquinas goes so far as to say that the bodies that angels assume are not even living bodies, but a sort of temporary organic machine that they use to interact with the physical world. 

As for whether or not demons can do the same sort of thing, I acknowledge that there is no explicit evidence that they can. I think that this partly explains the phenomenon of possession. 

Some will probably counter that Genesis 6 talks about the sons of God (angels?) having sexual relations with the daughters of men. This is a troublesome text, and it has been argued about for ages. Personally, I think that the best solution has been proposed by a biblical researcher named Bruce Vawter in a book that he wrote on Genesis in the 1970s. He suggests that what is going on is probably pagan sex rituals here. A priest in the guise of a false god is vicariously copulating with the daughters of men in question. Obviously, these gods are nothing more than demons, i.e., fallen angels, or "sons of God," and the priests involved are surely possessed by them.

But we have to humbly confess that we don't have much biblical revelation on the matter.

All this to say, I agree with you: angels don't (under normal circumstances!) have physical bodies that could travel through a material portal manufactured with a supercollider.

Well you ever want more on the subject just let me know.  And as for that 

debate goin on down through the ages,  NEVER forget... the mystery of iniquity doeth already work and what he is working on is convincing people that the things that are most revealing of him are the things that are made the most controversial. 

Can't talk about this or you are a racist, can't talk about that cause were are talking about GOD and just NO WAY, and FALLEN angel LEFT their habitation, men can't do that.  It's like we know there is a spiritual world but don't understand how very close it is in relation to this one.  Sometimes I really think people don't think they are going to be EXACTLY who they are right now just in a body that doesn't corrupt aka get sick, get hurt, get old, have disease, mental illness, but is still in the exact same image as we were first made.  

I am starting to wonder if I am going to die soon, (and won't that be a Halleluiah, all except for not being one of those who are taken for the 10 day trial, GOD KNOWS those are some works I would really love to take with me and I seem to be in not a very popular group there either, I digress) cause I have this need to really start laying it all out there.  And like I tell everyone else, I really don't know who you are talking about.  I haven't read hardly anything BUT the Bible and reference books for it, a few pages from a few books.... but I had what I consider one of the best teachers in the world (not that there aren't a bunch of things I think he was WAY OFF on (take note) but he taught me how to READ and divide and search out the truth on my own)  SO I don't know who you are talking about and a good chance that until I meet them in the next life, I won't.  I know nothing about 'religions', none of them.  I read the Bible, love Gods Word.  When I get done learning what He has to say, then I may move on, but not really looking good for anyone elses work so far as,  the more I learn the more I realize how much I haven't even had my eyes opened up to by God yet.  BUT He gives as we give.  That is what started me doing this and I must admit, 

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

Proverbs 27:18 Whoso keepeth the fig tree shall eat the fruit thereof: so he that waiteth on his master shall be honoured.

[Matthew Umbarger]

Not sure what the "ten day trial" is.

[Worship Warriors]

2 hours ago, Matthew Umbarger said:

DeighAnn, I think that we basically agree. I was responding to some of the objections that others had posed here based on those texts that refer to angels interacting with human beings, including eating things (as Abraham's three visitors did). Whether or not an angel can choose to assume bodily form is an interesting question. But it is certainly not their natural state, as you demonstrate with those brilliant texts you assembled for us. In fact, elsewhere Aquinas goes so far as to say that the bodies that angels assume are not even living bodies, but a sort of temporary organic machine that they use to interact with the physical world. 

As for whether or not demons can do the same sort of thing, I acknowledge that there is no explicit evidence that they can. I think that this partly explains the phenomenon of possession. 

Some will probably counter that Genesis 6 talks about the sons of God (angels?) having sexual relations with the daughters of men. This is a troublesome text, and it has been argued about for ages. Personally, I think that the best solution has been proposed by a biblical researcher named Bruce Vawter in a book that he wrote on Genesis in the 1970s. He suggests that what is going on is probably pagan sex rituals here. A priest in the guise of a false god is vicariously copulating with the daughters of men in question. Obviously, these gods are nothing more than demons, i.e., fallen angels, or "sons of God," and the priests involved are surely possessed by them.

But we have to humbly confess that we don't have much biblical revelation on the matter.

All this to say, I agree with you: angels don't (under normal circumstances!) have physical bodies that could travel through a material portal manufactured with a supercollider.

The angel of the LORD.  When LORD appears in capital, in the Hebrew text it reads as: angel Yahweh.  This is the preincarnate Christ that ate lunch with Abraham.  Angel Yahweh appears again to  Moses and Joshua and they both worshipped him .

Since God created man in his own image he is able to take on flesh not just in the NT but also in the old.

God is a spirit and angels are also spirits called to minister to those who would become heirs of salvation. I am of the opinion that angels can also take on human flesh.

Three angels appears to Abraham and one of them was the preincarnate Christ. The other two were angels and Abraham could not tell the difference.

[other one]

5 hours ago, Matthew Umbarger said:

I apologize if I was unclear; I absolutely agree that angels can have material bodies, but it is not a natural aspect of their being, but an assumed one. See my response to Justin Adams above.

Not a natural aspect....    we are told to be nice to strangers for we don't know that they might be angels.  I would say that it is a natural aspect of their being when they are manifest in our 4th dimension.

[Starise]

While I don't see any replicas of the tower of Babel or anything similar unless we want to look at the race to build the highest sky scraper. Undoubtedly some of these buildings are far taller than the tower of babel was. In this case it isn't the buildings themselves so much as the attitude behind the building that concerned the Lord.

If human achievement were the only factor at play why didn't God stop space flight, the internet, and anything else that humans boast about? The internet especially erases the language barrier between countries and peoples. 

I am guessing the OT was asking more about things that reflect the same attitudes existing in 2021 that caused God to act on those who built the tower of babel, or attempted to build it. The lethal combination seems to be the efforts of men running opposed to Yahweh in tandem with worshipping other gods. The mystery way...the occult. The men of Babel did indeed follow these gods who were opposed to THE god who were real beings. The scary thing about men who can do anything they please  had to be stopped. Why? Because they were not following Yahweh . That never ends well. Much like the story of the flood, there is far more to the story of the tower of babel than you come across reading at face value. The purpose of this tower was probably far more than a pile of bricks into the clouds.

My view on the "image " of the beast is it might not be a computer tech/AI image and might instead be a biological image. I don't know this for sure. Or maybe it will be some kind of a computer. Who really knows? Could be a combination of the two. Whatever it is, it will be evil putting wind in that kite.

CERN has very questionable beginnings. I believe it might be providing some sort of a benefit to the other side as either a way to disrupt something, like possibly time itself. If they can tear the time fabric or change our perception of reality they could create all kinds of problems. I am convinced it isn't simply the most expensive science experiment in the history of the world. There's more to it. The fact that they aren't especially transparent about it should tell us something.

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Starise

[Justin Adams]

11 hours ago, Matthew Umbarger said:

But I have never, ever heard anyone accuse Augustine of "robbing Scripture of the supernatural." That's a new one for me. I'm curious about what you mean by that.

Check out Psalm 82. Sons of God. Deut 32. Psalm 89. God's heavenly Council well described. Supernatural stuff.

Augustine invented, along with Julius Africanus, the 'sons of seth' idea to remove any vestiges of the Gen 6 account and the Watchers as being divine beings. His Manichean history put paid to his former regard of 1st Enoch.  Logically it is fallacious. Also many of the RCC errors can be attributed to Augustine and his ilk.

Peter and James both attest the truth that Augustine perverts.

Along with some Rabbis, they invented stuff that did not sit well with their current religious flavors. However, second temple literature is predominantly swayed against the Sons of God that came down on Mt Hermon; they lay the proliferation of mankind's evil squarely at the feet of these 200 Watchers. (the angels that sinned). 

It makes sense since Yeshua actually was transfigured there and poked them all in the eye. Caesarea Philippi area of Bashan was considered the gates of hell.

Here again, the RCC typically wants to detract and distort this event and presume it to be a papish thing. Error piled on error.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Dennis1209]

On 2/20/2021 at 6:29 AM, other one said:

The tower of Babel was a place where the people building it were trying to reach into the dimension of God.

The only place that I am aware of that is actively doing the same kind of thing would be CERN.

To save me a whole lot of time typing, I'll let Tom Horn explain why I think it is so.    https://www.skywatchtv.com/2020/10/18/cern-we-are-confident-of-making-contact-with-a-parallel-universe-this-week-out-of-this-door-might-come-something/

I was just about to make the same comment and observation. I might have even added an occult note; of what Wernher von Braun infamously stated. How Nazi Germany got 50 years ahead in technology almost instantly. Not to mention "Operation Paperclip."

But since you got 'Oy Veyed', perhaps I'll chose the 5th Amendment  

[other one]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

It's like we know there is a spiritual world but don't understand how very close it is in relation to this one.

If you can study and get a good grasp on "M" String Physics, you can start to understand how that can work.

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, SONshine said:

Yeah!  I dare ya!  Is it time?  I’d say the sand is running out of that hourglass! 

If only we were allowed!!!  Remember why we turn the other cheek.  But YES, I hope so soon too!!!

I have to keep in mind THE JOURNEY I took.  How devastating it was in the beginning to have to let go of all the lies I had picked up along the way, and that's not even having really put forth any of my time and will towards the Word of God.  Always loved God IN MY WAY not HIS.  (What an eye opener that was and super scary to boot.)  

I can't even imagine how much harder that would be IF I HAD.  We are to sow, not cram (not saying that my 'natural' tendencies don't go more to the latter, a war I continue to fight).   

I am trying to plant 'seeds' in a way that doesn't shut down but makes one question what they believe and dig in on their own to either prove or disprove by FINDING the scriptures where they can say YES, IT IS WRITTEN, OR where the hell did that come from, I can't find it written anywhere.  

And as you know the biggest obstacles are the ones Satan has basically rendered untouchable, them being most important FOR UNDERSTANDING, RIGHTLY DIVIDING AND MAKING IT ALL SO SIMPLE.   I pray on it and I figure like every other thing I have tried to impose my will on,  when God is ready, my will will not exist and His will will be done.  
 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, other one said:

If you can study and get a good grasp on "M" String Physics, you can start to understand how that can work.

I just put it into 'seen and unseen dimensions' coexisting in time and space and it all seems to work out with me not knowing nothing.  BUT if I do find myself stuck,  I am going to come a knocking...

An no, I don't seem able to do much past Gods Word.