Not that many of you want to know, but some of my thoughts on free will

[Wesley L]

On 3/15/2021 at 12:57 AM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Summary:
You can choose what you want,
You cannot choose what to want,
You have limited power to make your choices effective.

Thanks for sharing. I agree with your points.

We have no control over our desires. Our desires control us.
Before we were saved, we were captured in our sinful desires. (Rom3:11)
I believe it was 100% God Who changed me, so that I could repent and trust in Him. New desires and a new heart was given to me. And the Holy Spirit which dwells in me.

Everytime we make a choice, we are weighing our desires. Once saved, the desire to follow Christ will weigh the heaviest. BUT, we sometimes fall for the flesh, the old desires of the flesh. The Holy spirit Who dwells in you will convict you of the sin and will wake you up to repent and follow Christ. Unless He doesn't dwell within you.

It sounds like that there is no free will. Somehow I believe there is freedom of choice, free will and on the other hand I believe God is soevereignly electing His people. To me, this is still a mystery.

Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Wesley L

[Dennis1209]

On 3/24/2021 at 4:21 AM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I do not know if any of this addresses what you are asking, perhaps you can explain it more thoroughly, what it is you are fishing for.

I'm not fishing for anything, other than expressing my thoughts pertaining to free will and choices we make. Our choices have consequences, God's omniscience knows the choices we will make and the outcome and consequences. 

David asked the Lord what would happen if he did this or that, and made an election it seems, based on God's declaration of what would happen in his free will choice. God in His infinite foreknowledge told David the results of his potential choices and actions. 

How all this works is beyond my paygrade, but it's very interesting and there's a lesson attached. 

[DeighAnn]

14 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Context is, as some say, everything. So, how do we abide in Christ? Is it by our works so we might boast? The apostle Paul elaborated on this extensively so I won't copy and paste passages of scripture because I'm certain you know them well. 

We abide in Christ because we have been relocated into Him. We are hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3). This is an act of God which is the work of His Son. No one may come to the Father apart from the Son; no one can come to His Son unless the Father draws them. Nowhere are our works mentioned but you use the Lord's words from John 15:16 which apply to those who aren't in Him, and apply them to those who are already in Him. 

You mention rewards (2 John 1:8) and this, sister, is precisely what applies to us who are in Christ Jesus. Yes, the reward we shall receive from the Lord in His judgment seat relates to our walk with Him. There will be some who are scarcely saved, as if by fire (reference the scripture where that appears).

I should point out that the apostle John wrote his letters specifically to address ravening wolves among the flock, deceivers whom we know as the Gnostics, who denied that Jesus Christ came in this flesh. These are antichrists as we find expressed in 1 John 1:22.  

Gnostics infiltrated the Lord's sheep seeking to lead many astray with their heretical (and utterly bizarre) doctrines during John's day. The apostle exhorts the flock to pay heed so they will know when such a deceiver is in their midst; casting them out is the only fitting response. 

Proof-texting in order to outline an argument never makes the argument. Proof-texting is a manner by which verses are taken out of context, my friend. Reading the scriptures in their context is how we learn about the harmony of the scriptures. What did the Lord say? He will never lose a single one our Father gives to Him, and He will raise them up on the last day. (John 6:39). Here's the greater context of where that verse is found:

Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe. Everything that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I certainly will not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:35-40 NASB)

As you can see the Lord is addressing those who were not given to Him, and those whom our Father gives to Him. The Lord promises not to lose a single one our Father gives to Him. It's important to discern the difference which is why, as some say, context is everything.  

    

Yes, context is everything. I should have left the last verse out.  Like I said a little nuts.  I was hoping to get your thoughts on this part  

 

15 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

What does WORKING for or to keep salvation 'look/think/feel' like?  How does one know if one is doing that?  Are there some works that fall under that category and others that don't?  How do we know if that is what someone is doing or not? 

 

[Marathoner]

My apologies for missing this for so long. 
 

On 3/25/2021 at 10:28 AM, DeighAnn said:

What does WORKING for or to keep salvation 'look/think/feel' like?  How does one know if one is doing that?  Are there some works that fall under that category and others that don't?  How do we know if that is what someone is doing or not? 

To answer the "look/think/feel" portion of the question, let us remember the words of the scripture:

And you were dead in your offenses and sins, in which you previously walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all previously lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the rest. (Ephesians 2:1-3) 

And then, 

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

The Lord saves us, we don't save ourselves by anything we do; we belong to the Lord when He hides us in Himself (Colossians 3:3); we are clay, the Lord is the Potter (Jeremiah 18), and we are not the craftsman who dictates how the lump of clay is to be shaped nor used. Therefore God has ordained works for us to walk in which is our reasonable service to the Son who gives us Life. 

But these works don't save us either, my friend. This is the will of the Father who gave us to His Son:

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.  (Romans 8:29-30)

Our choices have nothing to do with this gift of God as referred to above. Therefore those of us who are hidden in Christ belong to God and we are His servants; He sets us upon the path to walk in those works He ordained for us (prepared beforehand) and if we stray, then the Lord corrects us because we belong to Him and not to ourselves nor this world. 

I'm not one who focuses upon his neighbor so I might judge them and proclaim, "This is what I shouldn't do!" Why, when I remember that time I walked in darkness and ignorance? When the fulness of time came our Father drew me to His Son and this was when I became the Lord's servant. I pay heed to the voice of His Spirit and listen to the Lord so I might live by every word which proceeds from the mouth of God.

When we walk according to the Spirit we walk in those works which God ordained beforehand, abandoning our own understanding and trusting in Christ. What is the antithesis of abandoning our own understanding? 

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Proverbs 14:12) 

That way which seems right to a man or woman. You're asking me to describe the difference between walking in this flesh and walking in the Spirit, but why are you wanting to know how we might judge others in this way? Those who preoccupy themselves with the business of their neighbor will find themselves fallen into a ditch. 

 

[DeighAnn]

20 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

The Lord saves us, we don't save ourselves by anything we do;

And to  me, that is the difference.  WE DO DO.  WE MUST DO.  Yes, the 'salvation' comes THROUGH THE LAMB SLAIN,  CHRIST and the work HE DID, something we could never do

BUT that in NO WAY negates OUR PART.   

THIS IS SO CLOSE TO THE Once God saves you, YOU can never change YOUR MIND BECAUSE HE WILL NEVER CHANGE HIS.   1/2 OF THAT IS TRUTH THE OTHER 1/2 IS A LIE.  

GOD doesn't CHANGE.  SALVATION is open to whomsoever would.  IF THEYY ABIDE, if they..... 

The sower sowed seed, THE SOIL was receptive or it wasn't.  Sometimes it started out to be BUT THEN this world KILLED IT.  


 

Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

Romans 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead,



THEN thou shalt be saved.


 

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Romans 10:13

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord


shall be saved.

 

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, SONshine said:

@DeighAnn and @Marathoner

Hi!  May I break in here with something I’ve just recently learned and that I think may be needful?  In Ephesians, notice that there are two groups of people that are called by our Father—the predestined ones and the not-predestined ones.  Both are loved by God.  (Verse 13 talks to the not-predestined ones.)  I hope you understand why I have posted this. 

Ephesians 1:1-14

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Redemption in Christ

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, [c]both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

Yes, I see.  And thank you too!!

[MissTury]

On 3/14/2021 at 4:57 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Summary:
You can choose what you want,
 You cannot choose what to want,
 You have limited power to make your choices effective.

Was reading your thread on Pharaoh's hard heart, and the forum software recommended this thread as Similar Content. I am happy that I checked this out, what a great OP, you have a gift!