Futurism

[Your closest friendnt]

3 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Thanks. Keep the thoughts flowing and perhaps we can help the newbies all over the world that might be taken in by these slick salesmen.

They are the mini-pops, the bishops. 

[Guest kingdombrat]

10 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

these slick salesmen.

When I think of this type of example, I immediately go to new television preachers that come onto the scene and when they know they're a hot item they suddenly have 3 quick self help books based on Scripture for normally around 50 bucks a piece but you can get all 3 TODAY for just 100 bucks.

 

The [Real True] Men of God are asked for their Wisdom and they write it down.

The greedy serpent however, will even come included with miracle water/ointment/oil.   That way you know at least [you] got something concrete out of the deal! 

Edited April 13, 2021 by kingdombrat

[Justin Adams]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Paul said to the born again believing church that after he departed wolves would come in, not sparing the flock (he was the one restraining them at the time).   And it still goes on, to one degree or another, making merchandise of the lambs, wolves feeding their flesh (ambition, power, prestige, or money) but the people love to have it so.  That is the antichrist spirit that we all need to overcome in ourselves and grow out of.......in our flesh, whether we are a wolf exploiting the flock to whatever degree, or a lamb who loves to have a flesh&blood "king" in the place of our invisible Head....until the wolf and the lamb are both at rest in the Lord.

This is well thought out and clearly stated.

It is a 'thing' that people seem to 'need'. I see folk all around me on their devices - yes even when out with friends they have to be a part of this electro-human-gestalt that appears to make them into mindless lemmings if they do not get enough 'likes' that particular day or the signal fades away. Do people really want to be led this way all the time; I wonder?

Edited April 13, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Heleadethme]

18 hours ago, Marathoner said:

This is precisely where His Spirit led me. While it's true that I wasn't subject to futurist indoctrination to the extent that others have experienced, I nevertheless held to certain ideals common to futurist belief. I picked them up along the way... I haven't existed in a vacuum, you know.   

For example, the so-called church ages and the notion that each church addressed in the book of Revelation typify ages of His Church throughout time. I earnestly searched the scriptures and found no basis for such an extrapolation. The source? Futurist dialectic over the centuries. 

I considered the Third Temple and discovered that this temple is us, living stones chosen by God. This is the temple Jesus Christ raised to the glory of our Father in heaven, the resting place of the Almighty. Did the Lord raise children of Abraham from those stones? Yes, He did. 

The history of man on this earth is a tale of great tribulation, calamity, and all manner of evil under the sun. "There is nothing new under the sun," the Lord's refutation that we live in exceptional times. The exception (if you will) is when the Lord Himself returns which I understand as the day of the Lord. The prophets of old spoke of this just as they spoke of the Word made flesh, and how the Lord doesn't rest in stone. 

It was a process to be sure. Ah, but abandoning futurism doesn't mean that there's nothing left to unfold. Not at all, because there's an appointed time for every matter under heaven, the Lord's promise of things to come. Don't we know that we shall judge angels?   

It's so hard for me to keep up with this whole thread, many I have wanted to respond to, but I'm so slow and only able to pop in now and again.  But those who are looking for meaning to the seven churches besides only the literal one, I believe are on the right track in that they are digging deeper in the word to try and mine its treasure.  Those seven churches each have a lampstand.....there is a lampstand in Zechariah 4 with seven lamps fed by OIL......and there are seven spirits of God (oil represents His Spirit).   So I agree with those who are looking for more regarding the seven churches than just the literal aspect.   And there are reasons why that was written down.....so good to keep digging.  There were more than just seven churches in existence at the time, more than only seven locations where the gospel had produced a gathering of believers, however large or small, but yet only seven were mentioned and they were only in Asia Minor.  (eg, there were churches at Corinth, Rome and Jerusalem etc.)  So it all does make one wonder if there's more to be mined from that.....those seven churches may be representative in some way of the entire church and body of Christ.

Just a little insight regarding what I believe is Ezekiel's temple that I find to be so precious and hope it will bless others.....the Lord showed me in a dream a roof being put on a house/ temple, to finish it...and the roof was transparent, meaning it was of the Spirit.  As He is our covering, our garment, His wedding chuppa.  We are waiting on the Lord for the balance remaining of the Holy Spirit to be given to His temple the church ......the capstone!  (we only received a deposit in the beginning...small beginnings, guaranteeing what is to come)  See Zechariah 4....love those scriptures!

 

 

[Marathoner]

6 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

At certain times in the past Israel was overtaken (exile) and thus used Aramaic and other inflective and similar languages where their generation grew up. Their mother tongue fell out of common use except for the Priests and some sects. That is why the Targums were created. For the common people Aramaic is a close cousin to early Hebrew.

Lo Ammi, 'not my people' has bee seized on by some, including church fathers, to vilify Israel. There has been so much world-wide anti-Semitism that it is hard for the current day believer to not have some vestiges of God's anger at their waywardness. I have been called out in the past for not having chapter and verse to support my inner feelings that, 'God ain't done with Israel yet'. To that I will hold most doggedly, though I cannot prove it well with scripture, I feel that Israel as a nation AND people, are still God's people.

I can't find fault with that, brother. I'm painfully aware of the hatred brought to bear against Jews by the so-called church fathers having read some of their literature. It's shameful and vile. Did they not understand that our Lord's seizure and death were spoken of by the prophets? That this was our Father's plan of redemption all along? 

We read in the Gospels there was a point when the Lord started telling the disciples of what was to come. The disciples were good Jews and they couldn't comprehend that Christ was to be led like a lamb to the slaughter. Peter was particularly zealous and here is where we see the Lord's love, patience, and discipline toward a man whom I identify with in some ways. I think many of us identify with Peter. He blew it a few times.  

The irony of the antisemitism rampant in the churches over the centuries is expressed in the fact that the Word made flesh was born a Jew, and His apostles were Jews. I've never been able to reconcile this warped hatred, especially in light of "you shall love your neighbor as yourself."



 

[Heleadethme]

6 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

This is well thought out and clearly stated.

It is a 'thing' that people seem to 'need'. I see folk all around me on their devices - yes even when out with friends they have to be a part of this electro-human-gestalt that appears to make them into mindless lemmings if they do not get enough 'likes' that particular day or the signal fades away. Do people really want to be led this way all the time; I wonder?

Bless you Justin, and I want to say thank you for this thread, I've been gleaning a lot here even if I can't put it all into words properly yet, as well as just enjoying the fellowship of everyone.

Yes, I think it's just the flesh.....our flesh is the problem.....these things are in all our flesh, all flesh is basically the same, with the same 'needs' and wants in various ways, various degrees etc...there but for the grace of God go each one of us.  All sins exist in our flesh with the potential to manifest......why Jesus took all sins to the cross in His flesh when He died as a Man.  In Him we are not condemned, thankfully....and we are dying to our flesh and growing/maturing in the Lord, as well as learning to walk by the spirit so we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh, perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord.....so there is hope for us all.

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

It's so hard for me to keep up with this whole thread, many I have wanted to respond to, but I'm so slow and only able to pop in now and again.  But those who are looking for meaning to the seven churches besides only the literal one, I believe are on the right track in that they are digging deeper in the word to try and mine its treasure.  Those seven churches each have a lampstand.....there is a lampstand in Zechariah 4 with seven lamps fed by OIL......and there are seven spirits of God (oil represents His Spirit).   So I agree with those who are looking for more regarding the seven churches than just the literal aspect.   And there are reasons why that was written down.....so good to keep digging.  There were more than just seven churches in existence at the time, more than only seven locations where the gospel had produced a gathering of believers, however large or small, but yet only seven were mentioned and they were only in Asia Minor.  (eg, there were churches at Corinth, Rome and Jerusalem etc.)  So it all does make one wonder if there's more to be mined from that.....those seven churches may be representative in some way of the entire church and body of Christ.

Just a little insight regarding what I believe is Ezekiel's temple that I find to be so precious and hope it will bless others.....the Lord showed me in a dream a roof being put on a house/ temple, to finish it...and the roof was transparent, meaning it was of the Spirit.  As He is our covering, our garment, His wedding chuppa.  We are waiting on the Lord for the balance remaining of the Holy Spirit to be given to His temple the church ......the capstone!  (we only received a deposit in the beginning...small beginnings, guaranteeing what is to come)  See Zechariah 4....love those scriptures!

 

 

I'm back from the appointment, @Heleadethme. Now I have time to respond. 

It's always good to hear from you, sister. I understand about the sheer size of this topic. I've kept up with it and in any case, I'm a speed reader from way back so I'm able to devour ridiculous volumes of text in relatively little time. I have over four decades of speed reading under my belt so little wonder. 

I was referring to the church age concept common to futurism, likening each church addressed in Revelation to a discrete iteration of Christianity during a corresponding period of time here on earth. I don't bear witness to this concept for it doesn't hold true from a scriptural standpoint, a historical standpoint, nor does it resound in the crucible of spirit. 

I'm an outsider looking in. My experience with churches is sparing to say the least, though the same cannot be said of my fellowship with the elect of God. That might confuse the reader so I'll explain: the Lord has led me to visit with a handful of churches over the years but He has blessed me with the fellowship of His holy ones (saints) all along. 

The harvest field is church to me, dear sister. I've never been interested in standing up, sitting down, and standing up when prompted; I prefer to occupy myself with what the Lord has set before me. I'm not in any way denouncing nor belittling those who attend church; I've been a transient for most of my days so establishing roots in any particular place was never something the Lord purposed for me.

Why should I plant myself in a church when I'm not going to stick around for long? One moment I'm there, and the next I'm gone. Wherever the wind blows is how the Lord moves me, and this has been especially true since the day I was baptized in a water trough. Therefore I am indeed an outsider looking in, and what I have witnessed inside isn't in harmony with the testimony of scriptures. 

The church age concept isn't essential. That's an important distinction because this topic represents the only time and place that I've expressed my take on it. I know of more than one sibling in the Lord who ascribes to this tenet of futurism and it's not my place to insist that they're mistaken or misled. Why would I, when the Lord has commanded me to serve His sheep? I'm to serve His sheep and my neighbor, regarding both as one and the same. That's all I care about, sister. That's His purpose for me and Christ fashioned me with single-minded purpose (autism) with these works in mind.  

What you've read from me in this topic about futurism is a first.   

Your dream about the temple is beautiful and I was blessed to read of it! I've received dreams about the temple from the Lord and I'm struck by how similar those dreams are to yours. I looked up and behold, I could see exceedingly far into the heavens above. There was no end to the vault arrayed above His temple of living stones. 

Yes, the stones of His temple were living things. I might share that dream in greater detail at some point in my testimony thread. 

All of creation awaits the revealing of the sons and daughters of God, so there's no question nor room for doubt: there is much, much more to come! We are certainly in agreement about these matters, @Heleadethme. You make my day whenever you drop in on the forum for a visit and I hope you'll be able to do so more frequently!  

Edited April 13, 2021 by Marathoner

[leah777]

I can understand that the seven churches have a figurative purpose and place in Revelations, but not that there was one type after another, each one in a particular place in history, each one being replaced by another, with us being in the Laodicean period of time now.  

[Justin Adams]

1 hour ago, leah777 said:

I can understand that the seven churches have a figurative purpose and place in Revelations, but not that there was one type after another, each one in a particular place in history, each one being replaced by another, with us being in the Laodicean period of time now.  

Yes I have heard 'analogies' (good to get people stirred up) that suddenly appear as doctrine somehow. We must ALL remember that there are no preachers that I know of that we should call inspired; though to hear them and watch them pat each other on the back in some TV evangelist session, you would think they'd all be floating off the stage soon... up up and away...

Edited April 13, 2021 by Justin Adams
clarify

[Justin Adams]

So y'all can chip in with your ideas whenever you like. It is open for comment and possible exploration of some experiences we all may have to offer. The thread is about some of the varied and maybe incorrect futurist claims that seem to be adopted by many.

Like pre-mil, post mil, no-mil, and all the other 'end-times stuff' that seems to float around. Often people do not even know where it originated until they are asked.

For the record, my take is I do not care. I find glaring holes in most all the popular  various eschatology systems, I just want believers to think well and think cohesively. Then really examine their beliefs and why they believe the way they do.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Justin Adams