Futurism

[Retrobyter]

On 5/4/2021 at 5:51 AM, Justin Adams said:

Bumping this up to address the thousands of believers  [Kings and Priests] that are waiting for a fictitious 100o years before they think haSatan and 'satan' proper noun is bound and they can actually DO something.

Shalom, Justin Adams.

Sorry, but the Millennium is NOT fictitious. It is the FULFILLMENT of the reign of God and His Mashiyach over Israel and then over the world as He annexes other nations and kingdoms throughout this 1,000-year period. 

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BINDING:

The Binding of Satan
by Douglas Kelly

Revelation 20 is the only place in the Bible that speaks of “the millennium”—the thousand-year reign of the triumphant Christ on earth. Nowhere else does Holy Scripture mention this word, so it is necessary to look at related teachings elsewhere in Scripture to understand what it means in Revelation.

 

So now, I guess, I'm addressing this Douglas Kelly fellow as well as you. This is not true. Revelation 20 may be the clearest place that talks about the "chilia etee," the "thousand years," but it NOT the "only place!" If you match up the message Peter gives to that of John, you will find it mentioned in 2 Peter 3:3-13, specifically, verse 8. We can also match up the few verses that Paul gives us in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28. Whereas Paul was specifically talking about the subject of the Resurrection, he does go into the details of what will occur in the Millennium. David, too, gives us the initial reaction of the nations of the world to the expanding reign of YHWH God and His Mashiyach - His Messiah - His Representative King.

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A sound principle of biblical interpretation (used from ancient times by Augustine, Tychonius, and other early Christian writers) is that one interprets the few mentions of a word or concept in light of the many, and the symbolic in light of the plain. It would be contrary to a clear understanding of the Scriptures to make the many fit into the one, or the plain into the symbolic. Therefore, we should understand what Revelation 20, a highly symbolic book, says about the millennium in light of the very large number of other biblical passages that tell us more plainly (and less symbolically) what occurs between Christ’s resurrection and ascension to heaven, and His final return to earth to complete His victorious work. With that in mind, let us seek biblical help in order to make sense of the very first thing that is said to occur in this thousand-year period between Christ’s two comings: the binding of Satan.

The Enemy, haSatan in Hebrew, is HARDLY bound! He is still "prowling about seeking whom he may devour!" If one thinks this is haSatan bound, he or she should NOT be put in charge of a penitentiary!

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Revelation 20:1–3 says that a mighty angel from God binds the Devil for a thousand years. Specifically, verse 3 relates that he is bound from deceiving the nations during this period. Something happens to Satan’s ability to keep the nations of earth blinded from seeing who God is, and what His gospel means for them. As a result of Christ’s finished work in dying on the cross, in rising from the dead, in ascending to the Father, and in being crowned on the throne of glory, Satan lost his power to deceive the untold millions of pagans, whom he formerly kept blinded to God’s saving truth.

Seriously, do you REALLY think he is bound when we have such rampant abortions, shootings, LGBTQ debauchery, transexual confusion, and widespread denial of God's existence?!  We live in a society that praises evil and denounces righteousness! Tell me again how haSatan is bound!

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The ancient story of Job may give us some important insight into this massive reduction of Satan’s power over the heathen nations. Job 1:6–12 portrays Satan as possessing the ability to come into God’s immediate presence along with other angels, or “sons of God” (v.6).

"Sons of God" is NEVER a term that refers to angels as supernatural beings! The account of Iyov is a prime example of why it cannot be. Since when does God allow sin in His presence? These "sons of God" are humans who trust in God's ability to justify individuals. They have come before God at the ALTAR! THAT'S where they "present themselves." HaSatan comes before God where he knew he could find Him!

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He used this place of power to cause great harm to Job. But according to what Christ says in the Gospels, Satan lost that privileged access to the heavenly courts as a result of the incarnation and work of Christ. In Luke 10:18–19, the seventy disciples return with great joy from their successful mission in preaching the gospel, healing the sick, and casting out demons. Christ then explains how they were able to accomplish these wonders: “He said to them, ‘I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven’” (v. 18). Jesus explains Satan’s fall in terms of Christian ministry: “Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you” (v. 19).

Luke 10:18-19 is about Yeshua` sending His disciples on ahead of Him to the towns and villages throughout the Land of Israel. Yeshua` has proferred to them the same Kingdom of God over which King David ruled. When He sent out the Twelve in Matthew 10, they were specifically instructed NOT to go to the towns of Gentiles! They were NOT to go to the towns of the Samaritans, those who were the half-breeds of the Ten Northern Tribes who had intermarried with the Gentiles who were placed in the Land by Sennacherib, the king of Assyria and who had intermarried with the Idumeans, the Edomites during Herod's rule!

Matthew 10:1-15 (KJV)

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these;
The first, Simon, who is called Peter,
and Andrew his brother;
James the son of Zebedee,
and John his brother; 
3 Philip,
and Bartholomew;
Thomas,
and Matthew the publican;
James the son of Alphaeus,
and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 
4 Simon the Canaanite,
and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,

"Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But GO RATHER TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. 7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying,

"'THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND.' 

8 "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. 11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 12 And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

Luke 9:1-6 (KJV)

1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. 2 And he sent them to preach (herald) the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. 3 And he said unto them,

"Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece. 4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart. 5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them."

6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

This was the same event recorded in Luke as in Matthew. It's just a more condensed version.

When He sent out the 72 (six times as many as the Twelve), He gave them similar instruction:

Luke 10:1-16 (KJV)

1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy(-two) also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. 2 Therefore said he unto them,

"The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. 3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. 4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way. 5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. 6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. 7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. 8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: 9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them,

"'THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS COME NIGH UNTO YOU.' 

10 "But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 

11 "'Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.'

12 "But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.

13 "Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you. 15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

16 "He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me."

 

This had absolutely NOTHING to do with "Christian ministry!" It was all about God's offer of the Kingdom to Israel. As David was God's Anointed One, God's Mashiyach, and Sha'uwl ("Saul") before him, so Yeshua` shall be God's Anointed One, God's CHOICE for Israel's Representative King! That's what the word "MESSIAH" means; that's what the word "CHRIST" means! If one doesn't understand that, yet, then that one is not ready to know the purposes of the Gospels!

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It is significant that the first beings to recognize the incarnate Christ, according to the gospel of Mark, were demons. Mark 1:24 and Luke 4:34 are among the passages that show the demons crying out in terror that the Holy One of God has come to torment them. Jesus explained that when He cast out demons by the Spirit of God (Matt. 12:28–29), it meant that the kingdom of God had come. In His work, He was binding the strong man (that is, the devil), who formerly had been keeping people in the dark and painful prison of unbelief, sin, and certain judgment.

After the Lord’s crucifixion and resurrection, and immediately before His ascension back to the Father, He commissioned the church to “go … and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (28:19). They would be able to do this because of Christ’s victory over Satan, who had long blinded the nations, for Jesus said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me’ (v. 18). Satan’s illegitimate power over the nations has been wrested from him, and placed into the hands of the legitimate Lord and Savior of the world. Now the Christian church can do its work; it can engage in successful mission all over the world, bringing the good news of freedom from captivity to those who had long been in chains because of sin and unbelief.

Christians have to understand that there is a BIG difference between haSatan being actually bound and that it's already "a done deal" that he SHALL be bound.

What Yeshua` the Messiah accomplished in His death and His Resurrection makes the fact that haSatan SHALL be bound in the future Millennium a "DONE DEAL!" HOWEVER, he has NOT been actually bound, yet, and WON'T be until the Messiah returns! Revelation 20 FOLLOWS Revelation 19! Remember: chapter and verse divisions are NOT INSPIRED, are FABRICATED, and are ARBITRARY, at best! They weren't invented until the 16th Century A.D!

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Colossians 2:14–15 makes it clear what happened to the powers of evil through Christ’s ministry, especially what He accomplished on the cross: “[He] cancel[ed] the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.” This indicates that wicked powers were defeated in principle at the cross of Christ. When Jesus purged all of our sins on Calvary, something happened to Satan. The evil one lost his authority to keep people back from God. He was bound by what Jesus did.

The missionary journeys of the Apostle Paul into the pagan territories of Asia Minor, Greece, and Rome were successful in turning the once-darkened nations to the saving light of God in Christ on the basis of the binding of Satan. Paul says in Acts 28:28, “Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will listen.” That has been the engine of all Christian missions and evangelism from that day to this one.

How long does the millennium last? There can be no doubt that it began with the completed work of Christ on earth. Revelation 20 follows immediately upon Revelation 19, which celebrates the triumph of the One who is “King of kings and Lord of lords” (v. 16), whose robe was dipped in blood (v. 13), and who now rules the nations with a rod of iron (v. 15).

Oops. It's not HIS blood in which His robe was dipped! And, He is NOT now currently ruling over the nations with a rod of iron! That SHALL happen, but He's NOT REIGNING RIGHT NOW! I've said it before, and I'll say it again, because there is absolutely NO blasphemy involved: If God's Emmisary - His Messiah - is reigning right now, then He is the WEAKEST "King" there has ever been in the history of mankind! The truth is He is NOT reigning right now!

That doesn't mean that we can't own Him as our future King, but He is NOT currently reigning, and we are NOT currently His subjects. Yeshua` said it Himself:

Luke 19:11-27 (KJV)

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore,

"A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them,

"'Occupy till I come.'

14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying,

"'We will NOT have this man to reign over us!' 

15"And it came to pass, that WHEN HE WAS RETURNED, HAVING RECEIVED THE KINGDOM, THEN HE COMMANDED these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying,

"'Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.'

17 "And he said unto him,

"'Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.'

18 "And the second came, saying,

"'Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.'

19 "And he said likewise to him,

"'Be thou also over five cities.'

20 "And another came, saying,

"'Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.'

22 "And he saith unto him,

"'Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?'

24 "And he said unto them that stood by,

"'Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.'

25  "(And they said unto him, 'Lord, he hath ten pounds!') 

26 "'For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me!'"

Matthew 25:31-33 (KJV)

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth hissheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Notice, however, that (1) this is a Judgment of NATIONS, and (2) that no one is actually THROWN into the Lake of Fire at this time! This "Judgment of the Sheep and the Goats" takes place at the BEGINNING of His Kingdom, which will be on earth, and occurs when the Master Yeshua`, the Anointed One (Mashiyach = Messiah; Christos = Christ) of YHWH to be KING, first arrives!

More tomorrow, but a "THOUSAND YEARS" is exactly that. We have numbers throughout Revelation that are frequently more than a simple 1,000. If it was going to be a time period longer than 1,000 years, why didn't he just simply SAY SO?!

 

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On 5/4/2021 at 4:51 AM, Justin Adams said:

Bumping this up to address the thousands of believers  [Kings and Priests] that are waiting for a fictitious 100o years before they think haSatan and 'satan' proper noun is bound and they can actually DO something.

BINDING:

The Binding of Satan
by Douglas Kelly

Revelation 20 is the only place in the Bible that speaks of “the millennium”—the thousand-year reign of the triumphant Christ on earth. Nowhere else does Holy Scripture mention this word, so it is necessary to look at related teachings elsewhere in Scripture to understand what it means in Revelation. A sound principle of biblical interpretation (used from ancient times by Augustine, Tychonius, and other early Christian writers) is that one interprets the few mentions of a word or concept in light of the many, and the symbolic in light of the plain. It would be contrary to a clear understanding of the Scriptures to make the many fit into the one, or the plain into the symbolic. Therefore, we should understand what Revelation 20, a highly symbolic book, says about the millennium in light of the very large number of other biblical passages that tell us more plainly (and less symbolically) what occurs between Christ’s resurrection and ascension to heaven, and His final return to earth to complete His victorious work. With that in mind, let us seek biblical help in order to make sense of the very first thing that is said to occur in this thousand-year period between Christ’s two comings: the binding of Satan.

Revelation 20:1–3 says that a mighty angel from God binds the Devil for a thousand years. Specifically, verse 3 relates that he is bound from deceiving the nations during this period. Something happens to Satan’s ability to keep the nations of earth blinded from seeing who God is, and what His gospel means for them. As a result of Christ’s finished work in dying on the cross, in rising from the dead, in ascending to the Father, and in being crowned on the throne of glory, Satan lost his power to deceive the untold millions of pagans, whom he formerly kept blinded to God’s saving truth.

The ancient story of Job may give us some important insight into this massive reduction of Satan’s power over the heathen nations. Job 1:6–12 portrays Satan as possessing the ability to come into God’s immediate presence along with other angels, or “sons of God” (v.6). He used this place of power to cause great harm to Job. But according to what Christ says in the Gospels, Satan lost that privileged access to the heavenly courts as a result of the incarnation and work of Christ. In Luke 10:18–19, the seventy disciples return with great joy from their successful mission in preaching the gospel, healing the sick, and casting out demons. Christ then explains how they were able to accomplish these wonders: “He said to them, ‘I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven’” (v. 18). Jesus explains Satan’s fall in terms of Christian ministry: “Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you” (v. 19).

It is significant that the first beings to recognize the incarnate Christ, according to the gospel of Mark, were demons. Mark 1:24 and Luke 4:34 are among the passages that show the demons crying out in terror that the Holy One of God has come to torment them. Jesus explained that when He cast out demons by the Spirit of God (Matt. 12:28–29), it meant that the kingdom of God had come. In His work, He was binding the strong man (that is, the devil), who formerly had been keeping people in the dark and painful prison of unbelief, sin, and certain judgment.

After the Lord’s crucifixion and resurrection, and immediately before His ascension back to the Father, He commissioned the church to “go … and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (28:19). They would be able to do this because of Christ’s victory over Satan, who had long blinded the nations, for Jesus said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me’ (v. 18). Satan’s illegitimate power over the nations has been wrested from him, and placed into the hands of the legitimate Lord and Savior of the world. Now the Christian church can do its work; it can engage in successful mission all over the world, bringing the good news of freedom from captivity to those who had long been in chains because of sin and unbelief.

Colossians 2:14–15 makes it clear what happened to the powers of evil through Christ’s ministry, especially what He accomplished on the cross: “[He] cancel[ed] the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.” This indicates that wicked powers were defeated in principle at the cross of Christ. When Jesus purged all of our sins on Calvary, something happened to Satan. The evil one lost his authority to keep people back from God. He was bound by what Jesus did.

The missionary journeys of the Apostle Paul into the pagan territories of Asia Minor, Greece, and Rome were successful in turning the once-darkened nations to the saving light of God in Christ on the basis of the binding of Satan. Paul says in Acts 28:28, “Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will listen.” That has been the engine of all Christian missions and evangelism from that day to this one.

How long does the millennium last? There can be no doubt that it began with the completed work of Christ on earth. Revelation 20 follows immediately upon Revelation 19, which celebrates the triumph of the One who is “King of kings and Lord of lords” (v. 16), whose robe was dipped in blood (v. 13), and who now rules the nations with a rod of iron (v. 15). But when does it end? Revelation 20 presents it as continuing until the end of the age, when after a brief uprising by Satan, the final judgment takes place (20:7–11). That means that the evil one is bound from deceiving the nations until just before the conclusion of salvation history.

Why, then, does Revelation use the expression a thousand years? In terms of biblical numbers, ten represents fullness, and a thousand is ten times ten times ten, hence fullness times fullness times fullness. It seems to equal a vast number of years without being a precise chronology of human history. Nowhere else does Scripture limit the binding of Satan and the success of the church’s mission to a specific period of time before the end of the age. Moreover, there are other places in Scripture where the word thousand is used without being a literal number. In Psalm 50 this same number is employed in a different context, where it says that God owns “the cattle on a thousand hills” (v. 10). This could not mean that the only thing God owns in His creation is one thousand hills, for “the earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof” (24:1). It is an expression for fullness. It is the same in Psalm 68:17, where the chariots of God are said to be “twice ten thousand.” It is highly unlikely that God has only twenty thousand active angels at his behest, for Christ on the cross could have called down twelve legions of angels (Matt. 26:53), which is far more than twenty thousand. The message in Psalms 50 and 68 is one of fullness, and it is the same in Revelation 20. One day, the fullness of the elect will be brought into the church, and then the end will come. It is not a matter of literally one thousand years, but of God’s secret timing as to the gathering of His people into union with Christ, however long that may take from our human perspective.

Although the evil one still has limited power in a fallen world, it is far less than what he had when he was able to bind and blind all nations outside Israel. And believers can still overcome even Satan’s limited power, for James 4:7 commands us, “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” Revelation 12:11 testifies of the embattled saints that “they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony.” Hence, on the foundational truth of Satan’s having been bound from blinding the nations, the church may daily pray, “Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven” (Matt. 6:10), and find comfort in God’s assurance: “Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession” (Ps. 2:8).

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The 1000 year reign of Rev 20 and the binding of the dragon (v. 2) are showing the people of Israel and the dragon nation Rome.

The identity of the dragon is usually thought of as being Satan, which it is. The spirit is hate (no love) for the people of Israel. Satan's spirit is to destroy the people of Israel, flesh and spirit. But Satan needs men to act through, flesh to do his will, to kill Israel. The same spirit when Cain killed Abel.

The dragon is identified in Rev 12:4 as Rome, a city/state/nation. (Iron legs/toes Dan. 2)

The story of the Rev 12, 70 AD faithful woman Israel who flees into the gentile nations is showing the same story and the same timeline as Rev 20, except the Rev 20 passage continues the timeline beyond the restoration of Jerusalem to the people of Israel.

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The confirmed identity of the dragon nation/city/state shows that the power of Rome over the people of Israel is diminished while Israel is scattered into the gentile nations.

This is the chain and the binding of Satan. Rev 12:15, the dragon nation Rome sends out a "flood" of people (Rev 17:15, the waters are people), after 70 AD Israel flees, but the power of the Roman Empire is limited by the vastness of the earth (planet).  

In the same way, the power of the dragon nation/city of Rome in Rev 20 cannot destroy the people of Israel because the dragons military power is centered in Rome. The chain shows the power of the Romans is limited, for a time.

The Roman dragon nation is shown being released from its limitations of destroying the people of Israel and and begins deceiving the nations into attacking restored to Israel Jerusalem. Notice how the Roman dragon nation does not attack Jerusalem, but must deceive others into using their military power to attack.

What is the first thing that the dragon nation does after being restored to power? He deceives the nations into attacking the people of Israel and Jerusalem. That is the way in which he was chained/bound. During the time of the binding he still deceives people just as he always has, the only way that he is chained is that he cannot destroy Israel.

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The millennium period takes place between the 2 resurrections. There are only 2, 1 Cor 15:23-2.

The first resurrection is Jesus and the OT saints.

The second is for the kingdom, then there are no more.

This means that we are in the millennium period.

The millennium period is the time of the Pentecost gospel kingdom on planet earth.

After the kingdom is taken at the second resurrection, then the fire from heaven.

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The Rev 20 timeline that begins with the first resurrection, is a reflection of Genesis in a way.

The Genesis narrative brings us from the spiritual world into the material world.

The Rev 20 narrative takes us from the first resurrection to the end of this material world and back to the eternal spiritual world.

[Guest kingdombrat]

The [Binding of Satan] is an interesting concept.  And like everything else, there are many concepts explaining what it means by Satan Bound for a Thousand years.

 

Most people think because Christ Died/Resurrected, people believe Satan has been weak ever since.

 

But let's look at a couple things that are interesting about Satan.

1) He was able to hold the Arch Angel Gabriel captive for 21 days.

2) Jude [New Testament] claims Michael spoke carefully to Satan.

 

Clearly, we have God's Angels [Michael and Gabriel] either being held hostage or making sure they don't say the wrong thing to Satan when they're interacting.

 

Jude knows we are covered in the Blood of Yeshua and filled with the Spirit of God,  but he is still [REMINDING] us Satan is Powerful enough that God's own High Ranking Angels must still be careful around Satan.

 

How can we say Satan is Bound, when all we have to do is look from Yeshua's Ascension till now and see his evidence that he's more active now than at any other time in the history of mankind on Earth?

Edited May 8, 2021 by kingdombrat

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1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

The [Binding of Satan] is an interesting concept.  And like everything else, there are many concepts explaining what it means by Satan Bound for a Thousand years.

Rev 20 says that the Satanic Roman nation is bound that he cannot deceive the gentile nations. When he does deceive them, they are deceived into attacking Jerusalem.

So the way that Satan is bound, is shown by the first thing that he does after he is loosed, which is to focus his attacks to destroy Israel in Jerusalem.

 

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

Most people think because Christ Died/Resurrected, people believe Satan has been weak ever since.

Satan's power over the eternal destiny of the spirit of people ends when someone enters the kingdom and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit love of God in their soul, Acts 2:38.

The new covenant gospel kingdom of Israel came on the day of Pentecost in 33 AD .

Satan is still the god of the material world. His power to kill, cause sin, and heartbreak still remains as always. 

 

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

But let's look at a couple things that are interesting about Satan.

1) He was able to hold the Arch Angel Gabriel captive for 21 days.

It does not say "captive". Dan. 10:13. Withstood, blocked my way, resisted me, opposed me.

 

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

2) Jude [New Testament] claims Michael spoke carefully to Satan.

Satan is the accuser of the brethren, If Michael would have accused Satan, then Michael would be showing the same spirit as Satan. 

 

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

Clearly, we have God's Angels [Michael and Gabriel] either being held hostage or making sure they don't say the wrong thing to Satan when they're interacting.

 

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

Jude knows we are covered in the Blood of Yeshua and filled with the Spirit of God,  but he is still [REMINDING] us Satan is Powerful enough that God's own High Ranking Angels must still be careful around Satan.

 

How can we say Satan is Bound, when all we have to do is look from Yeshua's Ascension till now and see his evidence that he's more active now than at any other time in the history of mankind on Earth?

Rev 20 is showing that Satan cannot complete the end of Israel until Jerusalem is restored and surrounded.

The prophecy is centered on the restoration of Israel to Jerusalem.

 

[Retrobyter]

On 5/8/2021 at 1:16 PM, abcdef said:

Rev 20 says that the Satanic Roman nation is bound that he cannot deceive the gentile nations. When he does deceive them, they are deceived into attacking Jerusalem.

So the way that Satan is bound, is shown by the first thing that he does after he is loosed, which is to focus his attacks to destroy Israel in Jerusalem.

 

Satan's power over the eternal destiny of the spirit of people ends when someone enters the kingdom and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit love of God in their soul, Acts 2:38.

The new covenant gospel kingdom of Israel came on the day of Pentecost in 33 AD .

Satan is still the god of the material world. His power to kill, cause sin, and heartbreak still remains as always. 

 

It does not say "captive". Dan. 10:13. Withstood, blocked my way, resisted me, opposed me.

 

Satan is the accuser of the brethren, If Michael would have accused Satan, then Michael would be showing the same spirit as Satan. 

 

 

Rev 20 is showing that Satan cannot complete the end of Israel until Jerusalem is restored and surrounded.

The prophecy is centered on the restoration of Israel to Jerusalem.

 

Shalom, abcdef.

Here we have one of many examples of how Satan (which means "Enemy" in Hebrew, "haSatan" meaning "the Enemy," adding the definite article prefix) has "deceived the Gentiles (nations)."

He is a PERSON, who has been (and still is, from time to time) a "messenger" for God. (That's what "aggelos," transliterated as "angel," means.) There are both HUMAN messengers, who may be sent by other humans or by God (as in "prophets"), and SUPERNATURAL messengers that God alone sends (as in how most people think of the word "angels" to mean).

For him to fool you into thinking he was the Roman Empire, takes you out of his way. You've been side-lined, and you're no longer a threat to him. You've been deceived.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, @Justin Adams

Sorry for the delay. I had said,

"More tomorrow, but a "THOUSAND YEARS" is exactly that. We have numbers throughout Revelation that are frequently more than a simple 1,000. If it was going to be a time period longer than 1,000 years, why didn't he just simply SAY SO?!"

But then, I didn't get back to finishing the thought the next day. To complete the thoughts our Lord gave us in His parables, we should go back to Matthew 13, the parables about the Kingdom.

Just as Matthew 25:31-33ff is about the BEGINNING of the Messiah's Kingdom, so too the parables of Matthew 13 give us more insight about the Kingdom AFTER His coming.

First we read:

Matthew 13:1-9 (KJV)

1 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying,

"Behold, a sower went forth to sow; 4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: 5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: 6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: 8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Later, He explains:

Matthew 13:10-23 (KJV)

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him,

"Why speakest thou unto them in parables?"

11 He answered and said unto them,

"Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven (the kingdom from the sky), but to THEM it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith,

"'By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.' (Isaiah 6:9-10)

16 "But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

18 "Hear ye therefore THE PARABLE OF THE SOWER. 

19"When any one heareth the word of (message about) the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth (snatches) away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 

20 "But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon (immediately) with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by (very soon) he is offended (caused to offend). 

22 "He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 

23 "But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."

This is NOT about the "Now," nor is it about the "Church" or even the "churches." This is about that FUTURE KINGDOM when the Messiah returns! Remember Matthew 25:31-33!

Matthew 25:31-33 (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth hissheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

So, Yeshua` the Messiah continued:

Matthew 13:24-30 (KJV)

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,

"The kingdom of heaven (the Kingdom from the sky) is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 

26 "But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him,

"'Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?'

28 "He said unto them,

"'An enemy hath done this.'

"The servants said unto him,

"'Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?'

29 "But he said,

"'Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

This one, He later explains by identifying the elements of the parable:

Matthew 13:36- (KJV)

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying,

"Declare unto us the parable of THE TARES OF THE FIELD."

37 He answered and said unto them,

"He that soweth the good seed is (=) the Son of man (Messiah Yeshua`); 
38 The field is (=) the world (Greek: kosmos = "world-system");
the good seed are (=) the children of the kingdom;
but the tares are (=) the children of the wicked one; 
39 The enemy that sowed them is (=) the devil;
the harvest is (=) the end of the world (Greek: aioonos = "age");
and the reapers are (=) the angels. 

40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (age). 41 The Son of man (Messiah Yeshua`) shall send forth his angels (messengers), and they shall gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 

43 "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

The timing of this parable exactly matches Revelation 20:1-15 and 21:1-2.

For further understanding, I like to take the elements of the parable and do a substitution directly in the original parable:

Matthew 13:24-30 (KJV)

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,

"The kingdom of heaven (the Kingdom from the sky) is likened unto the Son of man (Messiah Yeshua`) which sowed the children of the kingdom in his world (Greek: kosmos = "world-system"): 25 But while men slept, the devil came and sowed the children of the wicked one among the children of the kingdom, and went his way. 

26 "But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the children of the wicked one also. 27 So the angels of the Son of man (Messiah Yeshua`) came and said unto him,

"'Sir, didst not thou sow the children of the kingdom in thy field? from whence then hath it the children of the wicked one?'

28 "He said unto them,

"'The devil hath done this.'

"The angels said unto him,

"'Wilt thou then that we go and gather the children of the wicked one up?'

29 "But he said,

"'Nay; lest while ye gather up the children of the wicked one, ye root up also the children of the kingdom with them. 30 Let both grow together until the end of the world (Greek: aioonos = "age"): and in the time of the end of the world (Greek: aioonos = "age") I will say to the angels, "Gather ye together first the children of the wicked one, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the children of the kingdom into my barn."'"

It's pretty well straight forward. This happens AT THE END of the FUTURE KINGDOM of the Messiah!

Thus, God's Kingdom over which His Anointed One to be King, King Yeshua`, shall reign is a FUTURE Kingdom that BEGINS with His Coming and the War Tribunal, the "dividing of the Sheep and the Goats," and ENDS with the "gathering of the Tares!"

[Justin Adams]

On 3/19/2021 at 6:40 PM, missmuffet said:

Nothing that is in the book of Revelation has happened yet. The historical view of Revelation is dangerous. 

It is only dangerous to false Dispensational ideas and the pre-mill stuff that no one dares teach against since the seminaries mostly have a hold over their pastors.

Think of the lives destroyed by the likes of Lindsay, Lahaye, and all the other date setters that have been completely wrong. They are FALSE PROPHETS like Harold Camping.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Justin Adams]

9 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Oh, no; don't do that.

I will try very hard not to do all that...

[Retrobyter]

On 5/5/2021 at 11:40 AM, Josheb said:

I have yet to meet one. 

Shalom, Josheb.

I've been debating myself whether to answer your post at all, but I like you as a brother, and I believe that you're one of the most honest contributors to these forums. So, I decided, and I believe with God's support, that I should do so.

I also believe that I have yet to meet one who knows what he's talking about, at least, not completely.

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Nice red herring. I didn't "lump" anyone and I don't find "some" in error. All are in error and they only ones who don't think so is the self-styled literalists.

I was commenting on your statement, "Literalists do NOT read prophecy literally even though they say they do and criticize other when they either don't read it literally or read it more literally than they do," and I consider myself a literalist who is probably more literal than others are, especially when it comes to prophecy!

For instance, I believe that Yeshua` (Jesus) will INDEED reign right here on this earth, not only for a thousand years, as John tells us in Revelation 20:3-6, but also FOREVER, as Gavri'el (Gabriel) told Miryam (Mary) in Luke 1:30-33.

For instance, I do not find in the Scriptures that we "go to heaven" at all, recognizing that "heaven" in both Testaments come from words (shaamayim and ouranos) that mean the "sky." Instead, I believe that the LITERAL city, the New Jerusalem, shall LITERALLY LAND HERE on this earth (renovated as the "New Earth") and that HERE is where we shall dwell for eternity LITERALLY, as mentioned in Revelation 21:1-22:5.

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Your own posts are deeply flawed and you don't see it.

Show me the flaws. I don't believe that you can.

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Try Mounce instead of Wikipedia.

Don't know that much about Mounce in that I've never used it, but okay, I'm willing to try it. I've used Beginner's Grammar of the Greek New Testament by Dr. William Hersey Davis, A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament by Dr. H. E. Dana and Dr. Julius R. Mantey, New Testament Greek: A Beginning and Intermediate Grammar by Dr. James Allen Hewett, and the Oxford Grammar of Classical Greek by James Morwood.

Wikipedia is just a handy encyclopedia that's available to all. That's the ONLY reason why I bring it up. It's a great way just to look up things, like using YouTube videos.

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Don't compare different conjugations as if they are identical.

Enlighten me. When did I treat different conjugations as if they were identical?

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Don't use the word "interpretation" when the word "usage" is correct.

It's not enough to know how to USE a word; it's whether or not one is using the word CORRECTLY. Perhaps, you'd rather that I use the word "interpretation" for something a little more specific, less arbitrary or abstract. Maybe "interpretation" is not the right word to use. But, I'm trying to get back to the fundamental meaning of the word, not only in its context, but how it DRIVES the context. And, to do this correctly, one must not be limited to any English translation; one should be thinking of the original word in the Greek language that was so translated.

For instance, the Greek word "eggus" was used in the context of the Messiah and His Forerunner as saying to the children of Israel, particularly the children of Yhudah ("Judah"), the Jews, as "Here's the Kingdom; reach out and take it." Instead, most rejected it because their tribal leaders rejected it. So, Yeshua` the Messiah TOOK IT BACK! It wasn't "IN their hand," yet. It was "WITHIN their reach!" SOME would have taken it willingly, but it was an "all-or-nothing" offer. The Messiah LEFT this earth; He ascended into the sky, and according to Him, He would not be seen by them again "until they can say, 'Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH," "Welcome, Comer in the authority of YHWH!"

SO,

although the word stems from the direct meaning of "in-hand," "en" + "guion," it's USAGE IN CONTEXT tells us that the word in Matthew 3:2, for instance, "eeggiken," means "has come near," even though it was translated as ...

Matthew 3:1-2 (KJV)

1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying,

"Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

It wasn't "in their hand," yet; it was merely "within their reach" to take it!

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Don't use definitions that beg the question.

Again, enlighten me. When did I use such a definition?

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Don't claim to use words with normal usage and then not use them with normal usage.

"Normal usage" for WHOM?! The English language itself has changed quite a bit over the last 400+ years! Before one can use a word "normally," one must first understand what the word meant when that version was translated into an English version that used that word in translation. We have a "living language." It changes its meanings all the time to reflect the current civilizations that use that word. That's why we resort to a Koinee Greek version. We go back to the SOURCE (as far as we can go) to discover the "normal usage" of the word back when the Greek version was written. Again, we're putting our trust in human works that tell us what that Greek word meant in the First Century, which is why we must rely on the "normal usage" IN CONTEXT!

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Whether having realized it or not errors were posted. Mine is an evidence-based conclusion: literalists are inconsistent at best and at worst thoroughly false and hypocritical. Maybe you are are on the otherwise honestly inconsistent end of things and not on the more thoroughly false and hypocritical end but errors have, in fact, been posted.

I believe that you believe that. But, you're making a logical error, too. You are saying, "These are the only two conclusions possible; therefore, you are either the one or you are the other." The ONLY place in logic where that is true is in the "p or ~p" scenario. In a Venn diagram, it's a single circle: You're statement is either IN the circle or it's OUTSIDE the circle. That's not what we have here. There are other scenarios possible: You can have "literalists are those who are inconsistent," and "literalists are those who are thoroughly false and hypocritical," but there are other possibilities, too. On the Venn diagram, you have a single circle that is divided in half. One half contains those who are honestly inconsistent; the other half contains those who are thoroughly false and hyocritical, but then, you have yet to explore the other possibilities outside the circle!

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Whether realizing it or not my point(s) were demonstrated here in these posts and thereby proven correct. 

Again, I believe that you believe that, but you're not automatically "proven correct."

[Justin Adams]

I had bumped this topic up so others in the world can peruse its content.

I have no wish to argue about details and see that there are quite a few that are so far out in left field that they have created their own religion and their own temple of error. It amazes me how far off some can be from the reality that I see clearly. Thus I will not argue further since our languages are so far gone and distorted that it would be a fruitless game of post hoc and non sequitur semantic derivatives.

Blessings.