Who gave the devil permission to assault Job?

[Littlelambseativy]

You are comparing Paul to Job and the that is not correct. Job was under the Law and if he followed all the laws and sacrifices and was obedient in al that was commanded of him by God, God saw him as righteous. How  can you dispute who God judges as righteous? Paul was  under Grace. You cannot equate the two.

[Never Alone]

I have sometimes wondered,  what if everything horrible that happened to Job was something that was going to naturally happen already.

And all of the things that Job and his family endured was a natural coincidence that was destined to happen,  naturally going to take place in his life already without the working of Satan or any supernatural force manipulating and causing these tragic events to happen

Meaning   -   what if,  both God and Satan had pre - knowledge and foreknew and foresaw all of these things that were going to happen to Job, God and Satan, even before these horrible terrible things happened, they were known and Satan also knew before they happened.

Satan then, knowing the future, he communicated with the Lord and received authority or permission to afflict, trouble and distress the Spirit of Job and cause spiritual affliction and spiritual battles in the mind of Job within his very mind and in the mind of his friends and the mind of his wife.

It is just an idea that I have    -   I do not doubt in any way that this did not happen to Job and his family but just have thought about it in this way as how that all of these things perhaps were already destined to occur in the natural world  and  that  Satan was working in a spiritual aspect to torment Job

 Job was a victim of unfortunate coincidental events that befell upon him and His family.

One tragic even after another - horrible things were going wrong and harming Him and happening around him and Satan the adversary was there to discourage Him and SATAN was allowed to spiritually afflict him.

The Sabeans and Chaldeans were violent, terrorist and thieves who killed workers and stole his livestock.

Also, something fell out of the sky   - perhaps a meteorite or asteroid that was hot and burning and it started a fire and burned up more of His livestock. Also, a great wind caused by the weather conditions blew so hard that it destroyed his oldest sons home - killing His sons and daughters.

the location where Job lived was a dangerous place with violent men  and God allowed the elements of the atmosphere,  falling objects and solar winds in his environment to overtake and he was victim.

Job - also, was infected by a skin condition that broke out all over His body- perhaps Satan effected His mind to lead hIm to not bathing with proper water or effected His mind, distracting him to do something that involved himself to be in a distracting emergency situation that he contaminated himself with something that had caused him to accidently come into contact with something - that was unclean and infectious.

  And Satan was there to accuse Him ...

  Satan was someone who accused the brethren before our God day and night – non  -  stop  - continually, perpetually and at every moment, since this was already being done - naturally

Regardless, God used his story and circumstances to tell a story of faith as God  simply lifted / raised his hand of protection that was once placed on Him ( In Protecting Him ) - and his family - and God allowing the natural events of His surroundings to affect him - to show and prove to Satan and prove to Job and others that God still has control, still restores and still takes care of His servants in the end, proving the mutual loyalty between God and His servants despite the accusations of Satan and the natural elements -

God restored Job in the end and gave him more and gave him a greater life than he had before.

   do Spirits such as Satan  have ability to know the future in some situations   ?  

Edited September 27, 2023 by Never Alone

[enoob57]

No where in scripture does it say that Satan has foreknowledge in anyway shape or form? So what if is not supported by Scripture….

[other one]

33 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

No where in scripture does it say that Satan has foreknowledge in anyway shape or form? So what if is not supported by Scripture….

If he had, he certainly would not have plotted to kill Jesus. 

Would he have talked Eve into eating the fruit giving mankind the knowledge of good and evil and made it possible for us to judge the angles.

If he had foreknowledge he would have known Job wouldn't falter. 

Satan isn't blessed with foreknowledge and he really isn't very smart.

[Vine Abider]

8 minutes ago, other one said:

If he had, he certainly would not have plotted to kill Jesus. 

Would he have talked Eve into eating the fruit giving mankind the knowledge of good and evil and made it possible for us to judge the angles.

If he had foreknowledge he would have known Job wouldn't falter. 

Satan isn't blessed with foreknowledge and he really isn't very smart.

I've often wondered how Satan didn't know it was the Father & Son's plan for Christ to die to become the Savior of all mankind.  As it says in 1 Cor 2:8, "none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory"

I think that verse is speaking about the spiritual rulers, but even if that's not the case, Jesus said numerous times that His purpose was to die.  So how could they not have known there was the planning of the godhead behind all this?

I used to think they, just like the disciples, just didn't get it.  But now I wonder if it was as simple as Jesus making sure none of the demonic powers were within ear shot when He spoke of His going to the cross.

We'll hafta ask Him (face to face) some day . . .

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Glad this thread was bumped up, love this picture in Job, I was looking at the various ways Satan is betting against Job as the accuser he is and which things he wants to use to obtain the results he is seeking. It's not God doing these things its allowed though. 

This one here appears as a temptation (the one uttered by Satan) in the flesh. Using the flesh to get a response, in this case to curse God for it.

For example,

Job 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea,
all that a man hath will he give for his life.

Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh,
and he will curse thee to thy face.

THAT always reminded me a litttle of Paul's expression concerning the "temptation" in his flesh (Gal 4:14) or as Satan inflicting something upon the flesh to be tempted in a thing.  Whether that be curse God for it or something similar, as it appeared to even try those who received Paul (who did not despise him for the temptation in his).

It is like an infimity was delivered into Job's flesh, which came to him by Satan (with a temptation attached to it) which was  in order to provoke Job to curse God  because of it

Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand;
but save his life. (then struck his flesh with boils in vs 7)

Job, Job, Simon, Simon, Satan seems to desire men to sift

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon,
behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

Implies Satan is in the backround asking permission concerning Simon also, and Jesus responds

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not:
and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Given Christ is the power of God, who prayed for Simon's faith in this thing

Who is instructed by Christ to strengthen thy brethren reminding the same saying

1Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith
unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season,
if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

For this reason,

1Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold
that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ

The trying of our faith, or as James says,

James 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

The patience of Job makes sense in in endurance  seeing

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job

Afflictions being accomplished in the brethren are shown to us

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

1 Peter 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

1 Thes 3:3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.

1 Thes 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

1 Thes 3:5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[other one]

12 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

We'll hafta ask Him (face to face) some day . . .

The shape the world is getting, the sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.

[enoob57]

33 minutes ago, other one said:

If he had, he certainly would not have plotted to kill Jesus. 

Would he have talked Eve into eating the fruit giving mankind the knowledge of good and evil and made it possible for us to judge the angles.

If he had foreknowledge he would have known Job wouldn't falter. 

Satan isn't blessed with foreknowledge and he really isn't very smart.

I could not agree more!

[Vine Abider]

3 minutes ago, other one said:

The shape the world is getting, the sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.

Yes indeed!  But as the battle heats up, He needs boots on the ground too.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Heres another thought concerning the temptation in Job's flesh that had come to me a little later when considering it. 

Satan wants to touch his flesh and bone, and I regarded that as Job's own body, but if you were deceptive, cunning and knew the law, a man's flesh and bone is also his wife too.

This temptation here

Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

A man's flesh and bone as shown here

Gen 2:23 This is now the bone of my bones, and the flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman. because she was taken out of man. 

These two are really one flesh.

And the reason I point this out is because here is where Job's wife (his bone and his flesh) enters into this picture provoking her husband Job to curse God, which is actually uttering Satan's desires (as expressed to God) for him to do. 

So the woman is helping Satan out here

Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him,

Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.

Job responds to her as who seems to be taken captive by him (Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived was in the transgression, whereas in both places these seem to be listening to the Serpent, and being used to take down their men)

2Ti 2:25-26 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging 
of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

And so Job responds,

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God,  and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

I just thought that was cool, Satan wants to touch his flesh and bone, the woman is also his body, the flesh and bone of the man. The temptation shows itself in Jobs own body, but his wife enters the picture uttering Satans own desire toward her own husband, which seems to me that she too was taken captive for this purpose.  

Could be a stretch, but makes a little sense to me when listening to the voice of Jobs wife (which Job did not listen to) versus Adam who actually did listen to the voice of his wife (who was being deceived by the serpent in the garden).

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by AFlameOfFire