Lust or love?

[Whyme]

11 hours ago, Logostician said:

Lust seeks the welfare of self.  Love seeks the welfare of others.

Lust is based on pride/covetousness which is the source of all sin.  Love is based on selflessness, and the ability to to look beyond oneself for what is right and true.

Agape love comes from God.  We have the capacity to love because we are created in God's image.  We are told to love God, and our neighbor.  This is real love that does not seek it's own carnal reward.  It is a love that glorifies God.  It is an empathetic love that seeks the wellbeing of others.

If you want to know if it's lust or love, ask yourself is it for me, or is it for God, and my neighbor.

The Pharisees who loved the best seats in the house had agape love. 

[JohnD]

On 4/8/2021 at 11:20 AM, Whyme said:

We are commanded to love but are we loving or are we lusting? This is about sex but not only, its also about lust for money or material things. Do we love others with our money or do we lust with it? (God help me.)  And sex, do we value our lust more than Gods love? Do we fool ourselves into thinking our lust is actually love? Do we choose it more than God? If you feel convicted don't worry, all is not lost. Hope in Jesus and never give up. What are your thoughts? 

The Greek language was essentially the universal language undoing (as a whole) the language barriers created at the tower of Babel. It was more or less the language of the Greco-Roman empire. Some benefited from it as the universal language of commerce.  This secular Koine Greek language has four definitions for our word "love:"

Ranging from the most self-centered to the least...

Eros, Storge, Phileo, Agapeo

• Eros is so self-centered I believed at one time it should not even be categorized as love but as anti-love / deception masquerading as love "I can make you the best spouse" (it's about me more than the spouse, and God help that spouse if they ever step out of line with the one who has Eros for them)
• Storge is less self-centered but has limits to how far the [love] extends for another... it is often called friendship love
• Phileo  is even less self-centered and is referred to as brotherly love, countryman, familial, often used to promote a sense of duty to the other even though selfishness objects...
• Agapeo (agape) is often touted as Godly love / perfect love. I would call it the epitome of love... what love truly is, selflessness.

Eros is often called lust, but it is more than simple desire to meet one's own desires and cravings... it is deception... fool's gold of love and most people fall for it (which is why the divorce courts are so very busy).

Agape is such love for another all you care about is what's best for them. And if they have Agape for you then whatever union you have with them is permanent. This is what marriage should strive for (if it does not already have it). Otherwise one is taking a life-oath to an opponent, adversary.

[JohnD]

A simple answer to why do we lust is we are incomplete.

We crave / desire to be complete / fulfilled.

We strive to cram everything in life into that void...

but the void we experience is Christ. That hole in the soul.

And old habits die hard for even when we have Christ we tend

to lapse back into old vices etc. fueled by Eros.

But the more we choose Christ, the more we deny self, the freer we are from

vice and lust.

Fasting is the ultimate denial of self and in times of prolonged fasting

the intensity of walking with the Savior was (for me) too much to handle

and I prayed the Lord back off a bit (which he did). God is a gentleman after all.

I'll never forget how intensely his Spirit felt.

In heaven (the new heaven earth) we will be able to handle it and experiences it

at all times... and never get used to it / take it for granted like we do here on Earth.

[Whyme]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

The Greek language was essentially the universal language undoing (as a whole) the language barriers created at the tower of Babel. It was more or less the language of the Greco-Roman empire. Some benefited from it as the universal language of commerce.  This secular Koine Greek language has four definitions for our word "love:"

Ranging from the most self-centered to the least...

Eros, Storge, Phileo, Agapeo

• Eros is so self-centered I believed at one time it should not even be categorized as love but as anti-love / deception masquerading as love "I can make you the best spouse" (it's about me more than the spouse, and God help that spouse if they ever step out of line with the one who has Eros for them)
• Storge is less self-centered but has limits to how far the [love] extends for another... it is often called friendship love
• Phileo  is even less self-centered and is referred to as brotherly love, countryman, familial, often used to promote a sense of duty to the other even though selfishness objects...
• Agapeo (agape) is often touted as Godly love / perfect love. I would call it the epitome of love... what love truly is, selflessness.

Eros is often called lust, but it is more than simple desire to meet one's own desires and cravings... it is deception... fool's gold of love and most people fall for it (which is why the divorce courts are so very busy).

Agape is such love for another all you care about is what's best for them. And if they have Agape for you then whatever union you have with them is permanent. This is what marriage should strive for (if it does not already have it). Otherwise one is taking a life-oath to an opponent, adversary.

 

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

A simple answer to why do we lust is we are incomplete.

We crave / desire to be complete / fulfilled.

We strive to cram everything in life into that void...

but the void we experience is Christ. That hole in the soul.

And old habits die hard for even when we have Christ we tend

to lapse back into old vices etc. fueled by Eros.

But the more we choose Christ, the more we deny self, the freer we are from

vice and lust.

Fasting is the ultimate denial of self and in times of prolonged fasting

the intensity of walking with the Savior was (for me) too much to handle

and I prayed the Lord back off a bit (which he did). God is a gentleman after all.

I'll never forget how intensely his Spirit felt.

In heaven (the new heaven earth) we will be able to handle it and experiences it

at all times... and never get used to it / take it for granted like we do here on Earth.

The pharasees who loved the best seats in the house had agape love. I don't think agape is godly love, its just love. I know this goes against what is taught but it's true.

[leah777]

6 hours ago, Whyme said:

The pharasees who loved the best seats in the house had agape love

why do you think that? it is the opposite. They had Eros love. Self centred.

6 hours ago, Whyme said:

Agape is such love for another all you care about is what's best for them.

 

[Starise]

On 4/10/2021 at 3:08 AM, Logostician said:

Lust seeks the welfare of self.  Love seeks the welfare of others.

Lust is based on pride/covetousness which is the source of all sin.  Love is based on selflessness, and the ability to to look beyond oneself for what is right and true.

Agape love comes from God.  We have the capacity to love because we are created in God's image.  We are told to love God, and our neighbor.  This is real love that does not seek it's own carnal reward.  It is a love that glorifies God.  It is an empathetic love that seeks the wellbeing of others.

If you want to know if it's lust or love, ask yourself is it for me, or is it for God, and my neighbor.

Lust takes love gives.

I like the way you put this.

[Whyme]

1 hour ago, leah777 said:

why do you think that? it is the opposite. They had Eros love. Self centred.

 

Look at Luke 11:43. It says the pharasees loved (agape) the chief seats. They had agape love for their positions.

[leah777]

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Edited April 12, 2021 by leah777

[Whyme]

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Edited April 12, 2021 by Whyme

[JohnD]

9 hours ago, Whyme said:

Look at Luke 11:43. It says the pharasees loved (agape) the chief seats. They had agape love for their positions.

Rabbinic irony to make the point.

One having true love for self aggrandizement... 

Or like the old phrase "to die for"

"those cheese steak sandwiches were to die for."

The absurdity of the object placed in such high esteem or

detriment makes the point. 

The desk clerk at the news paper who exaggerates, "I'm gonna kill whoever keeps rearranging the files on my work desk... I have a system!"

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by JohnD